ProBack -> eMotion22 or 75

[Tomas Johanson]

My plan is to change my Kodak ProBack (Contax) to Sinar eMoton22 or eMotion75.

22 Mpixel is fine for me but are there other important differences between these backs more than the extra 11 Mpixels.

It must work for architecture, interiors and images for the lighting industry, sometimes low-light situations with different light sources, fluorescent tubes, halogen HME and so on...

Good 400 ISO would be fine but it´s not the most important thing.

I will also take a look at the others but I like the adapter idea of Sinar.

/Tomas

[Graham Mitchell]

Did you see the current offer on the e75? $20,000 when traded in with any back, iirc.

I have no idea what the e22 is going for. (MFDB dealers are being typically unhelpful).

[ericstaud]

The Aptus 75 has similar noise levels at 50ASA (it's lowest setting) when compared to the Aptus 22 at 25ASA (it's lowest setting).  This will be an advantage for your more dimly lit interiors.  I would guess that you would see the same from the eMotion series.

Rainer is using both the 22 and 75 eMotions side by side in all the conditions you are are asking about.

[kendal]

Tomas, I'am in the same situation. I am going for the e22 or e75 next year. At the moment I dont know if 22 or 75. Probably I will buy the  back wit the Hy6 so I wait for bundle prices.

Do you have a possibility to test the two backs?

[Morgan_Moore]

My plan is to change my Kodak ProBack (Contax) to Sinar eMoton22 or eMotion75.

22 Mpixel is fine for me but are there other important differences between these backs more than the extra 11 Mpixels.

Good 400 ISO would be fine but it´s not the most important thing.

/Tomas
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86085\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I am not sure why low light requires High ISO unless you are shooting handheld - a longer exposure with a lower ISO may be better - which it doesnt soud like you will be

The E22 is definately not very good at 400

I think the new sofware next year may improve it or 'Brumbaers' jobee

In terms of testing Eyelike versus other backs you must understand that the Eyelike file out of the camera is very flat and wont 'grab' you in the way that a camera with a pre applied 'look' will

One you have set up some curves thay can be added to multiple images easily

Initially annoying the flat curve is more satisfying to work with in the long run as you know here you are starting - with nothing applied

You are correct, as I see it, to be interested in the changeable plates especially if you are currently CONTAX with an eye on the HY6 in time

I think some Hasselblad backs offer a plate system too

I personally would not be too trusting of a 'free change' from Leaf or Phase it may at least give you a long downtime and at worst not happen

No 22 chips seem to have any 'centerfold' issues

SMM

[Graham Mitchell]

I also heard that there is new e22 software coming out soon. That was from a Sinar dealer. Does anyone know more?

[Morgan_Moore]

I also heard that there is new e22 software coming out soon. That was from a Sinar dealer. Does anyone know more?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86214\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Rheinar is th man who know the software - I think he is off shooting

[Tomas Johanson]

Thanks for your answers.

Graham, I have just seen the US trade in price, must check if I can get something similar here.

I think I can test both backs at the Swedish reseller, almost to get some indification of the differencies.

For the most situations it´s ok with low ISO and long exposure times just as I use my camera now. My question about high ISO is just to get a more versatile camera, I shoot other pictures too.

Yes Morgan I don´t want to be closed to one system, HY6 can be a future camera.

I´m not ready to buy anything before march next year, eventually I will rent an emotion for  a job in january.

/Tomas

[rainer_v]

the e75 is as the aptus one stop more sensitive. i use only the lowest iso setting with both backs, although certainly you can go higher ( maybee up to 100/200 iso, depending on your approach ). for long time exp. this does not make sense, cause the lowest setting will have the lowest noise level also, so iso50 with 30 sec. will have less noise than iso100 with 15sec. with the e75. no cf issue the e22, nomore cf issue the e75 also.
you can use the e75 with good rresults upto 30sec, the e22 same with lower iso25. noise level still is very low than.
the e22 is nearly free from any farbshifts, the e75 is less geood here,- but after working with whiteref. shots i changed my style with the e22 also and use the white shadings now also for it, cause i became more sensitive for these farbshifts and the e22 is not perfect also, so the image quality improves ere also with white shadings.
the 33mp give enough freedom for any cropping, thats a big advantage. the color rendition of all kind of tungsten or fluorescenz lights are much better with the new chip. but the e22 is a great back, esp. for landscape and architecture also.
sw. workflow and quality is great, at least with the software i use from brumbaer.

[eronald]

Just a note re. hi ISO, if you are using studio flash, hi ISO means cheaper and *lighter* lights. Makes a budget difference and a setup difference. Each stop means more money and more weight.

Edmund

[Graham Mitchell]

Sinarbron, the US distributor of Sinar, is offering the e75 with any trade-in for $20K. Lastra Imaging (UK) lists the e22 at £14374.00, or nearly $30K for the model UNDER the e75. Hopeless 'service'. I assume the latter's website is very out of date.

[Graham Mitchell]

Global Inc: eMotion22 digital backs Refurbished for $18,000

Seems strange that a *new* e75 is $20K + old back. Who would go for the refurb'd e22?

[BrianSmith]

$20K is a very good price. I can only comment on Aptus 22/75, but since they both use the same Dalsa chip as eMotion, I'd imagine that it's a similar comparison.

The biggest advantage of the 33mp chips is less moire. It wasn't an huge issue with a 22 mp chip, but it's totally a non-issue with the Aptus 75. Detail is finer. Sometimes that is a good thing. Sometimes it's not. For beauty, more detail can mean more retouching.For architecture, I can only imagine it to be good.

The 33mp chips are basically 1-stop more sensitive, meaning ISO 100 on a Aptus 75 compares with ISO 50 on an Aptus 22. I wouldn't buy any of these backs for the top ISO. I've shot the Aptus 75 at 800 a few times just to satisfy myself that I can, but it's not the optimal setting and requires that you really nail the exposure, since there is very little room for under-exposure at the top setting without getting a lot of noise in return.

[James Russell]

$20K is a very good price. I can only comment on Aptus 22/75, but since they both use the same Dalsa chip as eMotion, I'd imagine that it's a similar comparison.

The biggest advantage of the 33mp chips is less moire. It wasn't an huge issue with a 22 mp chip, but it's totally a non-issue with the Aptus 75. Detail is finer. Sometimes that is a good thing. Sometimes it's not. For beauty, more detail can mean more retouching.For architecture, I can only imagine it to be good.

The 33mp chips are basically 1-stop more sensitive, meaning ISO 100 on a Aptus 75 compares with ISO 50 on an Aptus 22. I wouldn't buy any of these backs for the top ISO. I've shot the Aptus 75 at 800 a few times just to satisfy myself that I can, but it's not the optimal setting and requires that you really nail the exposure, since there is very little room for under-exposure at the top setting without getting a lot of noise in return.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86287\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The Aptus if funny with noise.  For properly lit images even underexposed, especially with flash you can almost pull a stop out of it without a lot of noise.  For continuous light, a stop under and the noise in the shadows can be overwhelming, even at 200 iso on the A-22.

I don't really understand why continous light makes a difference vs. flash, but it my results I see it.

For me, the jury is still out on the A-65.  My daylight profiles are wacky and I don't understand why.  I can zero them out with a grey card, but then to me the file looks thin in comparision to the A-22.

JR

[khwanaon]

The Aptus 75 has similar noise levels at 50ASA (it's lowest setting) when compared to the Aptus 22 at 25ASA (it's lowest setting).  This will be an advantage for your more dimly lit interiors.  I would guess that you would see the same from the eMotion series.

Rainer is using both the 22 and 75 eMotions side by side in all the conditions you are are asking about.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86095\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Eric,

did you make a test side by side, the eMotion22 at 25 ISO and the Aptus at 25 ISO as well? If yes, then you will see that the Aptus is at least 1 (ONE) full stop under compared to the eMotion 22. Same for all other ISO settings, same for Aptus 75 and eMotion 75.

Aon

[khwanaon]

I also heard that there is new e22 software coming out soon. That was from a Sinar dealer. Does anyone know more?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86214\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Graham,

I have been told that the new Captureshop version 5.4.4 (or so) will be released by end of Nov/begin of Dec. This version is said to improve high ISO seettings as well as noise in long exposures, among others.

There will also be a completely new software, with new design and features, released begin of 2007 which was presented during Photokina, called Exposure.

Aon

[DominiqueMarcWehrli]

on www.ppl.de the sinar emotion22 is still listed for 13900 Euros + Tax (new).

One thing I noticed is that the chip of the emotion22 seems to become warmer durind long exposures. The back has to be cooled down to get the best image quality. If you take a few consecutive shots, the image quality can degrade a lot.  

Dominique Wehrli

[eronald]

The Aptus if funny with noise.  For properly lit images even underexposed, especially with flash you can almost pull a stop out of it without a lot of noise.  For continuous light, a stop under and the noise in the shadows can be overwhelming, even at 200 iso on the A-22.

I don't really understand why continous light makes a difference vs. flash, but it my results I see it.
JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86290\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

This is a general problem, not only with digital backs.

Sticking a good old blue filter over the lens - like using Ekta daylight with tungsten lights- might a very good idea.

I saw some slight blue channel noise in some of the Aptus files I looked at.  In reddish light this will be accentuated. Same phenomenon with the Canons.

A digital white balance won't help with the noise, because it's generated by the fact that different "color-filtered" pixels get differing light levels. The filter should fix this situation.
 
Filtering might prove useful by leveling the channels with any digital imager. They all display blue-channel noise to a certain extent - of course I'd expect that in very blue light they'd have red-channel noise

Edmund

[rethmeier]

I've just placed an order for the eMotion-75.
My Australian dealer was able to give me a great deal with a working trade-in.
Similar to the deal currently in the US.

Now if they can hurry up the Hy6 ,I'll be extremely happy!

Cheers,
Willem.

[Graham Mitchell]

Congratulations, Willem! I look forward to seeing some results.