P 21

[awofinden]

I was going to go  with the P30 to replace my 1ds mark 2, tested it, liked it, but it just occured to me that the P21 is much cheaper and I virtually never need a bigger file than 11 * 14 300dpi and the faster frame rate is very nice. I never hear about anyone using this back though. Anyone have any experience with it? Seems like a real bargain, the problem with my canon isn't file size, I rarely do big crops. Sounds perfect, am I missing something? Moire perhaps?

[charles_m]

I was going to go  with the P30 to replace my 1ds mark 2, tested it, liked it, but it just occured to me that the P21 is much cheaper and I virtually never need a bigger file than 11 * 14 300dpi and the faster frame rate is very nice. I never hear about anyone using this back though. Anyone have any experience with it? Seems like a real bargain, the problem with my canon isn't file size, I rarely do big crops. Sounds perfect, am I missing something? Moire perhaps?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86058\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

i tested the P30 and P45 recently, (on a contax). if the size of the image in the viewfinder is of any importance you, (it is to me), then you might not be happy with the P21. yes, it does shoot fast, and that is good, but the viewfinder image is quite small, due to cropped chip.

maybe if you put the p21 on an h1 series, it might not be that bad, but on a contax, with that smaller, darker viewfinder, the reduced viewfinder image might be disappointing to you.

also, the wide-angle issue issue with cropped chip.

one opinion.

[awofinden]

i tested the P30 and P45 recently, (on a contax). if the size of the image in the viewfinder is of any importance you, (it is to me), then you might not be happy with the P21. yes, it does shoot fast, and that is good, but the viewfinder image is quite small, due to cropped chip.

maybe if you put the p21 on an h1 series, it might not be that bad, but on a contax, with that smaller, darker viewfinder, the reduced viewfinder image might be disappointing to you.

also, the wide-angle issue issue with cropped chip.

one opinion.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86060\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, it is a bit of a drag that, I'll probably stick it on a Mamiya 645 which has an o.k. view finder, photography is one great mass of compromises isn't it.

[charles_m]

Yes, it is a bit of a drag that, I'll probably stick it on a Mamiya 645 which has an o.k. view finder, photography is one great mass of compromises isn't it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86062\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

neither the P30 or the P45 on a contax is much of a compromise at all, in my opinion. in fact, it's quite exciting.

[Graham Mitchell]

neither the P30 or the P45 on a contax is much of a compromise at all, in my opinion. in fact, it's quite exciting.

Well those two backs have different sensor sizes. Iirc, the P30 and the P21 are the same size: 44 x 33mm

[charles_m]

Well those two backs have different sensor sizes. Iirc, the P30 and the P21 are the same size: 44 x 33mm
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86066\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

if that is true, then i apologize, and stand corrected. the dealer did not have a p21 in stock at the time, and i did not get to put my hands on it. i leaned toward the p30, due to the color of the default skin tones. yes, the p30 does crop a good deal into the full frame contax; i thought the p21 cropped slightly more. but i might be wrong.

(and as we all know, hasselblad is the ONLY full frame option out there, right..?) (hasselblad has probably lost hundreds of potential customers, due to that one assinine statement alone).

[awofinden]

if that is true, then i apologize, and stand corrected. the dealer did not have a p21 in stock at the time, and i did not get to put my hands on it. i leaned toward the p30, due to the color of the default skin tones. yes, the p30 does crop a good deal into the full frame contax; i thought the p21 cropped slightly more. but i might be wrong.

(and as we all know, hasselblad is the ONLY full frame option out there, right..?) (hasselblad has probably lost hundreds of potential customers, due to that one assinine statement alone).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86071\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, the P 21 is the same frame size as the P 30.

[pss]

p21 has 18mpix, is the same physical size as the P30 (33x44mm) shoots 60frames/min and as far as i know goes up to 400?(i think the 800 is the same as on the P20, half the size) the P30 is 32mpix, shoots 45frames/min up to 800....both will get a little boost (one stop asa, faster shooting) with the P+ upgrade.....
P21 should be plenty of detail....the P30 allows for more cropping and probably has less moire problems...
the only real advantage of the P21 is the speed, everything else goes in P30s favor.....the P30 is about 20-25% more expensive...
i guess the P21 would also allow for more movements with a fieldcamera/T/S lenses, because there are no microlenses....  
i just went from a P20 to a P30...looked at the P21, but did not go for it because: the P20 with a 4:3 crop is about 14mpix....the jump from 14 to 18mpix is hardly noticeable...good to have but not enough to upgrade....the P30 has a lot more resolution, clearly noticeable, the extra size allows to crop.....moire was never really an issue with the p20, but it did occur and the less, the better....all 3 are plenty fast enough and are usually as fast or faster then my flash recycle....the P30 has the extra stop and the look of the 800 was what finally sold me to upgrade....i was very happy with the P20 ...but the extra stop with twice the resolution was too hard to resist.....and in the end, the P30 cost me only about 2000 more then the p21, so it was an easy decision.....
if i woulld get in now, i would probably get the P21, or look for a good deal on a P20....they are cheap....

[awofinden]

p21 has 18mpix, is the same physical size as the P30 (33x44mm) shoots 60frames/min and as far as i know goes up to 400?(i think the 800 is the same as on the P20, half the size) the P30 is 32mpix, shoots 45frames/min up to 800....both will get a little boost (one stop asa, faster shooting) with the P+ upgrade.....
P21 should be plenty of detail....the P30 allows for more cropping and probably has less moire problems...
the only real advantage of the P21 is the speed, everything else goes in P30s favor.....the P30 is about 20-25% more expensive...
i guess the P21 would also allow for more movements with a fieldcamera/T/S lenses, because there are no microlenses.... 
i just went from a P20 to a P30...looked at the P21, but did not go for it because: the P20 with a 4:3 crop is about 14mpix....the jump from 14 to 18mpix is hardly noticeable...good to have but not enough to upgrade....the P30 has a lot more resolution, clearly noticeable, the extra size allows to crop.....moire was never really an issue with the p20, but it did occur and the less, the better....all 3 are plenty fast enough and are usually as fast or faster then my flash recycle....the P30 has the extra stop and the look of the 800 was what finally sold me to upgrade....i was very happy with the P20 ...but the extra stop with twice the resolution was too hard to resist.....and in the end, the P30 cost me only about 2000 more then the p21, so it was an easy decision.....
if i woulld get in now, i would probably get the P21, or look for a good deal on a P20....they are cheap....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86100\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The P21 does have iso 800. It's files' I guess are about 13 by 19 at 300 dpi. So if your printing at 11 * 14 @ 300 dpi then would you see any difference between that and the 30Mp back. With the P 30 you would have to downsample to print at that size and there are quality loses downsampling. Am I missing something?