Not another M8 post from armchair.....

[JJP]

What scares me is that more or less, the M8 image quality is being compared with those of Canon's which (who knows why) never put a camera into production with image issues......Canon may be the standard by which all others are measured, but Canon is the exception and not the rule.
And so, you may ask.....what should Leica do with their first M series intro?
The answer is, not a thing....leave it as is...step up production and put a disclaimer on the box....and last but not least....sell them for a thousand or two thousand bucks less so that we poorer folks can get our hands on one to see what all the fuss is about....that will buy Leica some time to have these supposedly "image issues" fixed.  Then a couple years from now they can introduce the "M9" with more followers on their side,

jj

[jani]

The answer is, not a thing....leave it as is...step up production and put a disclaimer on the box....and last but not least....sell them for a thousand or two thousand bucks less so that we poorer folks can get our hands on one to see what all the fuss is about....that will buy Leica some time to have these supposedly "image issues" fixed.  Then a couple years from now they can introduce the "M9" with more followers on their side,

I have one objection to that notion, and that is that unless you already own enough Leica glass, the lenses will really cost you, too.

That being said, I see nothing wrong in the price coming down a bit.  

[vgogolak]

What scares me is that more or less, the M8 image quality is being compared with those of Canon's which (who knows why) never put a camera into production with image issues......
jj
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I suppose having the majority of images uninspiring, fuzzy glass, and reduced DR are not obvious 'issues' for the Canons

But the Leicas, with great glass, better dynamic range and superior build and ergonomics are the ones with 'issues' because they are definable and examples are obvious.

The problem is this; with leica, the percentages of images with issues are very low (a few % at most) while the rest are really superior and exciting - shows the striving for excellence,...and have a good chance to overcome the issues...

while the canons are stuck in their non issue mere 'OK-ness' forever.

not everybodies cup of tea, but there is a reason Leica owners stick by their brand.

regards
Victor

[dlashier]

What scares me is that more or less, the M8 image quality is being compared with those of Canon's which (who knows why) never put a camera into production with image issues.....
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Hum, let's see, 1D split sensor, 1D green stripe, 1D corner glow on long exposure, 1Ds shadow banding.... perhaps less issues than Nikon or Kodak but it took Canon a while to work things out too.

- DL

[David Mantripp]

I suppose having the majority of images uninspiring, fuzzy glass, and reduced DR are not obvious 'issues' for the Canons

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Amazing - but, er, where is the "create inspiring image" button on the Leica ? I can't find it listed on the spec sheet.

If you can't take inspiring photos with a Canon - any Canon, then, basically, you're an uninspiring photographer...

[BernardLanguillier]

Hum, let's see, 1D split sensor, 1D green stripe, 1D corner glow on long exposure, 1Ds shadow banding.... perhaps less issues than Nikon or Kodak but it took Canon a while to work things out too.

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I might be forgetting some, but the banding issue on some D200 is the only clear image quality I remember with Nikon bodies.

Cheers,
Bernard

[dlashier]

I might be forgetting some, but the banding issue on some D200 is the only clear image quality I remember with Nikon bodies.
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Bernard,

Are you forgetting all the color cast (magenta) issues with the D1, and to a lesser extent with the D1X and D1H?

I'll also note that I'm still happily shooting with my Canon 1D, defects and all. Sure I've run into the defects but they only affect maybe 1 out of a thousand or more images.

At this point both Canon and Nikon have been in the game long enough to pretty much sort things out. Kodak gave up. Leica has (nearly) pulled off what was thought to be impossible. I'm sure they will sort things out over time also.

- DL

[BernardLanguillier]

Are you forgetting all the color cast (magenta) issues with the D1, and to a lesser extent with the D1X and D1H?
- DL
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Don,

Yep, you are right, I had forgotten about that. I was not using high end digital at that time.

Regards,
Bernard

[vgogolak]

Amazing - but, er, where is the "create inspiring image" button on the Leica ? I can't find it listed on the spec sheet.

If you can't take inspiring photos with a Canon - any Canon, then, basically, you're an uninspiring photographer...
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Touche'    

[JonRoemer]

I might be forgetting some, but the banding issue on some D200 is the only clear image quality I remember with Nikon bodies.

-D1 fix for high iso noise, D1 magenta skin tone issues

-Rubber Peeling off D1, D1x's.  I owned one D1 and four D1x's and the rubber peeled on all five camera bodies.  Not an image quality issue but camera manufacture issue.

-D2h & infrared issues (similar to current M8 situation)

[Seth Honeyman]

You could add all those posts claiming that the 1D Mk2 produced soft images or the 1DS' s oversaturated reds or the 5D's vignetting issues  Virtually EVERY major camera introduction seems to bring a flurry of posts claiming problems (often from people who've not yet bought or used the camera).  What's unique with the M8 is the number of posts from nonowners who seem to be embarked on a crusade to keep others from buying it.

[John Camp]

What's unique with the M8 is the number of posts from nonowners who seem to be embarked on a crusade to keep others from buying it.
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With as much screaming and shouting as we've seen, I don't think it quite yet measures up to the D200 banding fight. Dozens of people were proclaiming that the camera was totally unusable because every time they took a picture of a bare lightbulb, eight stops over-exposed, they could see bands in the under-exposed areas. The fact was, even the original D200 was usable for 99%+ of anything anybody would do. And it was apparent right from the start that most of the posters didn't have the camera, and probably had never had a Nikon of any kind.

A similar explosion of net publicity wrecked any chance that the Kodaks had. The Kodaks are used to this day by quite a few people, and are excellent cameras for a lot of different purposes, but their shot at the big time was wiped out.

In those cases, much of the shouting was also done by obvious non-owners who signed onto forums by the hundreds to ridicule the cameras. So many did so that sometimes it was impossible for actual owners to find out what the heck was going on, because they couldn't find relevant posts in the sea of bullshit.

There might be a nice little scholarly paper in this somewhere. If one were of a paranoid type, you might see a pattern of one large manufacturer hammering others in a kind of unstated commercial warfare. I'm not too paranoid, so I don't really believe that, but a case could be made...

JC

[32BT]

There might be a nice little scholarly paper in this somewhere. If one were of a paranoid type, you might see a pattern of one large manufacturer hammering others in a kind of unstated commercial warfare. I'm not too paranoid, so I don't really believe that, but a case could be made...

roflmao, Do I smell a juicy conspiracy theory going? I love it already. Even better than the viral/rumor marketing plots. Didn't Michael once work for Leica? But not now. So he probably holds some secret grudges. He says he's biased in a positive sense, but that's clearly a smokescreen, and in reality he's on the gray paylist of a large nameless manufacturer...

Men, that whisky thing might not have been such a good idea... early in the morning!