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Author Topic: intel core 2 vs AMD  (Read 9004 times)

spphoto

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intel core 2 vs AMD
« on: October 24, 2006, 02:50:14 pm »

Hi,

I was looking a some benchmarks of these two chips.  I may get a dell desktop, but the AMD is a good bit cheaper.

Its between an intel core 2 duo 1.83 GHz vs AMD x64 4600 GHz.

I really need to know which is faster for PS.

Thanx in advance!
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jani

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« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2006, 05:42:45 pm »

That would probably depend on what you do with Photoshop.

Look at hardware review sites such as Anandtech.com, Tomshardware.com, Extremetech.com, etc. to get a general sense of these chips' capabilities.

But if you don't often find yourself waiting for Photoshop to finish an operation, then it probably won't matter.

If I assume correctly that it's the x64 X2 (dual-core) version of the AMD chip, then my somewhat educated guess is that the differences between these two are negligible.
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spphoto

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intel core 2 vs AMD
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2006, 05:59:31 pm »

jani,

2 things:

1.  what do you mean when you say, it depends on what you do?

2.  Could you answer my q on this thread (where you commented)

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....pic=12722&st=20

thanx much!!!
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jani

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« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2006, 06:43:30 pm »

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1.  what do you mean when you say, it depends on what you do?
While this may not be exactly how these two processors differ, here's an example:

One processor may be quicker at resizing images, while another might be quicker at colour/light adjustments.

This is usually documented in thorough tests.

In general, Intel's new Core 2 Duo processors are faster gigahertz for gigahertz than AMD's current x64 X2 processors.

The ones you've selected, however, the 1.83 GHz Intel and the 2 GHz AMD, aren't very far from eachother performance wise; from what I can tell, they're within 10% of eachother.
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TomConnor

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intel core 2 vs AMD
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2006, 01:44:27 pm »

If you just want a decent indication on speeds, i suggest checking the Tomshardware cpu chart, available here

In terms of the dimension you might go for, the E521 is definately worth a look (at least in the UK, not sure what the equivilent is outside the EU), especially if you arent buying a monitor with it, as the price is pretty competitive.  Also, if you are buying from dell i recommend ringing them up, as their sales people can take some off of the price which you would otherwise get online.
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gorosh

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intel core 2 vs AMD
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2006, 12:56:52 pm »

Quote
Hi,

I was looking a some benchmarks of these two chips.  I may get a dell desktop, but the AMD is a good bit cheaper.

Its between an intel core 2 duo 1.83 GHz vs AMD x64 4600 GHz.

I really need to know which is faster for PS.

Thanx in advance!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=82027\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

First of all, I would advise you to go for Intel C2D. Only in your case I would go for at least E6400 processor (2.1 GHz), not E6300 (1.8 GHz). I wouldn't go over E6600 (2.4 GHz, but 4MB cache), since for example "extreme" series models like E6800 are just not worth it - you get 5-10% percent faster processor for 100-200% higher price.

Also, IMHO it's always better to buy individual components and then assemble them yourself (or in the shop), since you can get exact components you want, at much lower price than "brand name" computers.

Anyway, good and strong computer would look something like this:

Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 / E6600
Motherboard: Asus P5B Deluxe
Memory: 2x1GB DDR 2 ram, in dual channel mode
Hard Disk: Seagate Baracuda 320GB, 16MB cache, SATAII, 7200.10 series
Graphic Card: ATI Sapphire Radeon X1650 Pro (2xDVI)*
PSU: Seasonic S12 series, 430W*

As for graphic card, it's up to you - IMHO there's no point to invest into not-so-cheap Matrox professional cards or such, since any card will be good for Photoshop work. It would be good to invest in card with 2 x DVI ports, since you can hook 2 x LCD displays to it (without VGA -> DVI converter).

For PSU, it's important to have enough Watts, to have good efficiency (over 80%), to be relatively silent, and highest quality possible (for your budget). 430W Seasonic is all that, and some more. It's important to point out that nominal Watt values don't mean much when you're picking power supply, since some 550W PSU's have under 300W actual power for example. You'll do just fine with PSU's like Seasonic 430W / Antec NeoHE 430W or 480W / Hiper Type-R 580W / SilverStone Element 500W.

Regarding cases, it's also up to you, since exterior design is quite important feature for most people. For internal features you should look for good cooling, enough space, so that cables and components wouldn't be cramped in there, enough rom for additional components, quality build etc. Good case should have 12cm rear vents, front vents (12 cm, 9cm or 8cm - 12cm are best option), those are a must, while it's good to have optional vents (on top, side etc.). Manufacturers you should look into are Antec, Silverstone, Coolermaster, Thermaltake and Lian Li. Lian Li are best of the lot, but they are also very expensive, so maybe they aren't good option for most users. Some good cases are for example Antec 150, Silverstone TJ2, Coolermaster Centurion 5, Thermaltake Armor / Armor Jr. etc.

I would sincerely advise you to take that route instead of brand-name assembled computer, since you'll be getting much stronger, faster and better computer, with better upgrade options, at lower price.

For example, Asus P5B Deluxe motherboard is ready for Kentsfield processors (new Intel processors, just like Core 2 Duo, but with 4 cores instead of 2), it has eSATA port (so you can attach external eSATA hard disk enclosure and have same transfer speeds as with internal SATA disks), it's upgradable to 8GB ram etc.

For hard disk, Seagate Baracuda series 7200.10, with 16MB cache, is great option, since those disks are very fast (in benchmarks they are almost the same as much more expensive 10000RPm Raptors). You should think about at least two hard disks, since it's always better to have Photoshop scratch disk on separate physical drive. It would also be good option to consider putting several hard disks into RAID array.

Configuration like this will be great for Photoshop work, and it will last you a long time (and upgrade options are good), especially considering arrival of Windows Vista, which will be resource hungry OS. It's way better option than some Dell, or some similar computer.
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spphoto

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intel core 2 vs AMD
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2006, 06:04:20 pm »

Quote
For example, Asus P5B Deluxe motherboard is ready for Kentsfield processors (new Intel processors, just like Core 2 Duo, but with 4 cores instead of 2), it has eSATA port (so you can attach external eSATA hard disk enclosure and have same transfer speeds as with internal SATA disks), it's upgradable to 8GB ram etc.


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=82810\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Do you mean that there are 8 slots for ram instead of 4.  Even the high end dell's don't have 8 slots, hence only say that max ram in 4 gig.

I can't do this, I'm not an expert, but if I hire someone to do it for me, would I still save?
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gorosh

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intel core 2 vs AMD
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2006, 11:13:03 pm »

Quote
Do you mean that there are 8 slots for ram instead of 4.  Even the high end dell's don't have 8 slots, hence only say that max ram in 4 gig.

I can't do this, I'm not an expert, but if I hire someone to do it for me, would I still save?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=82836\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

No, there are 4 slots, like on any other motherboard, but in each you can put 2GB stick of ram, so 4x2GB=8GB.

As for assembling those components, if you buy them in one shop, they can assemble it for you without charging for it (at least it's like that in my country, but I guess it won't be trouble finding at least one shop in your area who would do it). Now for the "expert" part - I know it's quite intimidating for someone who never did it, but trust me - it's easier than assembling average Lego blocks package.

All you have to do is: put CPU in it's socket, put cooler on CPU, put memory sticks in memory slots, connect cables from PSU to motherboard, fans, DVD drive and hard disks, and connect several little cables from case to motherboard (hard disk activity indicator, power led etc.), and that's pretty much it, hardware-wise (it all basically fits into only appropriate socket, so there's practically null possibility of error). Next step is inserting operating system CD into DVD drive (you just have to setup several options in BIOS before), and basically all you do next is follow screen instructions and press "next" button.

It's really simple, I had VCR's which were more complicated to setup than Windows install.

I know that it's quite intimidating, and I don't mean to encourage you to try something you're not comfortable doing, but if you're at least considering this idea - it's not that hard at all (and btw there are tons of websites with detailed photographs of every step, and it's all basically connecting A with A / B with B.

It's certainly useful skill to know, since you can be "master" of your setup that way, and buying and assembling computer in that way is definitely best option - it's cheapest, you get to pick exactly what you want to last detail, and later you change your configuration to suit your further needs.

However, if you'd rather stick with brand name pre-configured computers go for it, because although it's more expensive, you should get some kind of support etc.

I've been assembling my own configurations for almost a decade, and there's no way I would buy pre-configured computer (except Macs, since there is no other option). It's cheaper, and more fun (well I always liked to play with technology, from early childhood I disassembled every radio, cassette player etc. that I had). It's not very complicated skill to learn, basically it's not much more complex than routing your audio / video cables in your home system, but people are generally afraid of all those
"things" sticking out of motherboard etc.

I guess the best option for you would be either Dell computer or custom shop-assembled configuration. If you wonder about pricing, go to some online store like newegg for example, and pick all those components I suggested to you, so you'll see the price for yourself.
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nigeldh

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intel core 2 vs AMD
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2006, 11:14:18 pm »

Quote
Do you mean that there are 8 slots for ram instead of 4.  Even the high end dell's don't have 8 slots, hence only say that max ram in 4 gig.

I can't do this, I'm not an expert, but if I hire someone to do it for me, would I still save?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=82836\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Check out notebookreview.com, their forum section on graphics cards has a lot of good information.
hardocp.com does a lot of system evaluations for the entire buying experience and feature a lot of the non-major "manufactures" of systems.

There are a lot of places that will custom build a desktop system for you, "whitebox systems." Many of them have on-line configurators in which you decide what configuration you want built and they assemble and burn-in the system for you. In the notebook area these are called whitebook notebooks - powernotebooks.com is one such custom builder. With a custom built system you will get the components you want and have a much better system then some major manufacturer's stock system.

The consensus is that the Core 2 Duo is a better chip than the X2 Athlon if you are buying new. But then I am quite pleased with my MSI 6150 Video X2 3800 and 2 gig of memory. I have also found that I am using only 1 gig of my 2 gig of memory but then I don't run CS2. If you aren't doing gaming or high end 3D modeling like Maya you might not need a very high end graphics card.

I would suggest a dual monitor set-up so you can place the image on one monitor and the palettes/menus on the second monitor. Even with a wide screen 20" Dell, 1680x1050 pixels, I find myself wishing for more screen real estate.

Nigel
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spphoto

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intel core 2 vs AMD
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2006, 09:37:16 am »

Quote
No, there are 4 slots, like on any other motherboard, but in each you can put 2GB stick of ram, so 4x2GB=8GB.


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=82865\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

thanx to both of you...I'll have to think about it..

Also, can I also stick a 2 gig stick in the dell's?  btw, where can I get these 2 gb sticks? I can't find them anywhere?
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gorosh

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« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2006, 10:14:19 am »

Ok, I did some counting for you. Here's the deal:

Custom configuration

Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 (2.4GHz / 4MB cache)
Motherboard: Asus P5B Deluxe (P965 chipset)
Memory: 2x1GB DDR2 RAM
Hard Disk: 2xSeagate Baracuda 7200.10 series 320GB / 16MB cache / SATAII
Graphic card: ATI X1650 Pro (2xDVI)
DVD - Pioneer DVD burner
Case + PSU: Antec P150 / Antec Neo HE 430W
----------------------------------------------------------
Price: ~ 1200$


And Dell desktop PC with approximately close specifications:

Dell XPS 410

Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 (2.4GHz / 4MB cache)
Motherboard: Dell BTX motherboard (P965 chipset)
Memory: 2x1GB DDR2 RAM
Hard Disk: 2xWestern Digital 320GB / 16MB cache / SATAII
Graphic card: Dell GeForce 7900 GTX
DVD - Toshiba DVD burner
PSU: Dell 375W
Case: Dell

+

Display: Dell 24" 2407WFP Widescreen LCD
----------------------------------------------------------
Price: ~ 1900$


Now, although you get display with Dell, you can find that same model for ~300$, so price would be ~1500$ vs ~1900$. Also, the power supply in Dell PC is not very good, while Antec Neo HE 430W is great power supply. Graphic card in Dell is bit stronger, but only for games, it won't make any difference in graphic applications (and it costs only 50-100$ more). You also get better memory in custom configuration. Both motherboards have additional PCIe slot at 4x speed, so you can put second graphic card and have triple monitor setup (great for everyday work, especially with graphic programs). Dell can have max of up to 4GB ram, while Asus P5B Deluxe has up to 8GB of ram.

As you can see, custom configuration is at least 400$ cheaper (and that sum could be reduced even more with some modifications), if you buy same display. However, since you'll be working with Photoshop, I wouldn't recommend you that display. I don't know if you already have good display with accurate colors, but if you're planning to invest into new one, maybe it would be good idea to wait for at least a month, since NEC is releasing several new models (26" and 24" S-IPS panel based ones for example). The prices of their older models will probably drop (2190UX for example, and that model is quite praised on this forum).

All in all, for the same price you get better computer, with better upgrade options, plus you're left with ~700$ for new display, instead of ~300$ Dell 2007WFP. BTW you can for example buy just 1 Baracuda disk, thus saving 100$, which you can than add for the display. You can later add new disks to your configuration (it's always best to invest as much as you can in monitor, since hard disks, ram, graphic card, even processor, are easily upgraded later).


I hope this helps you with your decision.
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spphoto

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« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2006, 10:18:45 am »

Thanx gorosh,

Where can I get a 2 gig stick from?
One thing you didn't mention is the operating system.  With Dell, it's cheaper bundled.
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jani

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« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2006, 10:32:05 am »

Keep in mind that to utilize 4-8 GB of RAM, you need either a version of Windows that supports PAE (typically the "server" editions), or Windows 64-bit edition. Or a Mac or Linux/FreeBSD/Solaris/etc.

Windows XP 64-bit edition is still a bit too much of an experiment, but this will hopefully improve with Windows Vista.
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gorosh

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« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2006, 10:36:03 am »

Quote
thanx to both of you...I'll have to think about it..

Also, can I also stick a 2 gig stick in the dell's?  btw, where can I get these 2 gb sticks? I can't find them anywhere?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=82891\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Dell motherboard is supporting only up to 4GB of ram. As for 2GB sticks, although they are not so common in every shop at the moment, in the future will se more and more of it (there's even 4GB ram stick now).

However, I must point out that you can not take advantage of 8GB ram in standard Windows XP, you need 64-bit version. For now, 2GB ram will be just fine for you, and later you can upgrade to 4GB. It's questionable if you'd ever put 8GB ram into that computer, but it's definitely good to have such option, because you can never know what future brings.

Just be sure to put ram in dual channel mode - 2x1GB sticks in 2 slots of same color, and later 2x1GB sticks in other two slots of same color (usually it's black and blue).
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spphoto

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« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2006, 11:08:31 am »

I was thinking windows vista...

also, If you would duplicate the background layer of  16 tiff 1ds 2,  then add a few layers, wounldn't a ton of ram help.   More that 2 for sure, right?
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