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Author Topic: Shutter rating - what does it mean?  (Read 10805 times)

macgyver

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Shutter rating - what does it mean?
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2006, 07:17:44 pm »

Just bear in mind that the shutter on your camera is like any of the other bits and pieces of technology and mechanics in it.  Meaning, no one knows how long it will last, only that it will fail at a crucial, once in a life time moment.

 
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Big Bird

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Shutter rating - what does it mean?
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2006, 10:29:10 pm »

I have a 1DMarkII, and the shutter failed at around 30,000 actuations, pretty short of the advertised lifespan. $220 CDN to replace.
I can't speak for other models, but the 1DMII has a reputation for a bad shutter with early failures. I know of at least 10 people with early failures. I even know of someone that had the MarkII "N" fail at less than 5,000 actuations.
I think the 8fps takes a heavy toll on the shutter, or Canon has a serious flaw on their hands.
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dwdallam

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Shutter rating - what does it mean?
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2006, 03:18:47 am »

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I would say that this is exactly how you can seriously review and learn from 2500 images in two weeks.

Or to put it in other words: the experience will tell you a lot about what you do wrong, where you were too quick, where you just took an image in the hope that you might rescue it in post-processing (and in post-processing, you learn that you in 90-99% of the cases, you can't), and so on, until you realise that the solution is to take fewer images, but with more care.

I'd call it a simple learning curve.

I'm still learning, but now I'm taking very, very few images, unless I'm exploring a new technique that I haven't even tried before. Then I take - comparatively - lots of images, and learn from them, again.
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Actually that's 178 images a day. I guess that isn't that much--lol. Damn, I guess I shoot lots more than I thought I did. I probably shoot 30-80 each time I shoot, depending on what I am shooting and how familiar I am with it. So yeah, that's not so many.
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dwdallam

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Shutter rating - what does it mean?
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2006, 03:26:31 am »

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Exactly!  I'm taking a lot of shots LEARNING both how to use the new body, how to use my new macro lens, how to apply new techniques as I learn them, etc.  Oh, I'm sorry I'm not perfect like you, dwdallam, and only need to take 5 shots a week because they are all pro gallery quality from the start     I on the other hand never claimed to be pro or anywhere near it, so yes, I take a lot of shots.  2 weeks ago I went to the Botanical gardens for 3 hours filling my 8 gigs worth of cards.  This weekend it was the Homosassa Springs Wildlife State Park.  Next weekend I'm planning on the everglades for another airboat tour.  I'm going to take as many shots as I can carry home, to hone my technique, learn from my mistakes (which heavily outnumber anything approaching good) and if I'm lucky, come back with a couple shots worth printing and hanging on my walls at home.  The point being, everytime I get more and more 'good' shots that aren't blurred, at the wrong exposure, have the wrong DOF, have something in frame I didn't notice when I took it, have the subject in the wrong position, etc.  Every session I get better.  Will I take less pictures each trip next year as opposed to this?  Probably, but if I still take 600 a day, maybe I'll just have more keepers from the bunch because I practiced.
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Now I said you are more in line than I was at first glance. I was just looking at a shoot I did last year after first getting my 20D, and it had 60 images in it, plus the ones I deleted. So that's still alot of images to look at analytically per day, but not completely over the top. For sure practice, but there is more to learning photography than a shotgun effect in your shooting practices. I surely don't lay claim to doing anything worthy of display, and I've only been shooting seriously for about a year and a half. But if you can go through that many images a day and learn from them and improve your photography, sweet man. Go for it. I really meant no offense.

You can check out some of my stuff here:

dwdallam.com
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dwdallam

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Shutter rating - what does it mean?
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2006, 03:32:46 am »

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It's an axiom that it's the quality of practice that is more important than the quantity.  However, if one can do the analysis, doing more rather than fewer should be beneficial.  W. Eugene Smith took 17000 photos for his Pittsburgh project of which he thought 2000 were of "posterity" grade.  Of course his habit was to conduct extensive camera-less reconnaissance before starting in.  Gary Winogrand averaged 3 rolls of 36 exposure film a day for 30 years.  Do the math.  Winogrand's apartment had stacks of proof prints and he would analyze them at length with whomever was willing.  His last 500,000 included shooting from a moving vehicle with a motorized back and his hit ratio plummeted to near zero as far as the record indicates. On the other hand, for Winogrand "being there" resulted in an amazing body of work.  Some photographers do a lot of pre-planning and thinking before and at the site, others shoot from the hip.  Whatever works for you.  I frequently make two or even three trips (if a subject is static) to a scene as I learn more about how I want to treat a subject.
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Russ, that is exactly what I meant. I found it benificial to find one type fo photography In wanted to do, and learn that first, mainly--which was landscape ocean shots mostly. I did other stuff on the way also, but everyday I was at teh same spot untill I got something I thought was ok, and then I'd study it like a mad man. I found that trying to do too many types of photography at one time slowed the overall progress. I still no nothing about shooting moving objects, such as car races, etc. But after doing the other stuff, I would bet dollars to donuts that my learning curve would be much faster now that I have put in and understood the other things I started with.

It's also VERY helpful to shoot static objects also, since you can keep going back to see if you can improve that one shot, and understading why it is "improved."

But as you point out, learning is different for everyone, and some people may benefit best shooting tons of pictures.
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dwdallam

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Shutter rating - what does it mean?
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2006, 03:35:14 am »

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Or motor sports.  Trying to get rooster tails just so in Rally racing takes a lot of machine gunning.
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Yes, I can see that. This is an exception, as I see no sure way to get a good picture in this type of photography w/o laying on the shutter. However, they have been had.
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dwdallam

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Shutter rating - what does it mean?
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2006, 03:45:58 am »

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Wow, you guys must be TOTAL NEWBS THEN!  LOL!
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No, not really. They're experienced because they know when they need to use thier auto and when not to. This is a good example of when to use it. I doubt anyone would find it useful to shoot 1, 000 images of a sunset in 30  minutes, but I guess one could, just for example.

You may find it useful to concentrate on one or two types of photography, with something inbetween to break the monotony,  until you find yourself comforatable with those two thing. It helps to understand other aspects easier--at least for me. I mean, for instance, instead of shoting a moving subject to try and practice backlighting, you may want to try a static object, like a mask on a foam head (I have one) and put that on a stand. Then you can take it anywhere you want and go from a to z with it. In fact, that may teach you more than shooting weeks the other way. I say this becsaue I bought a foam head, and mask to go over it, and using a lightstand with the head on it and a flashlight, learned more about light direction, height, and traditional light patterns than I did in three or for two hour long shoots using strobes. It just kinda popped in my head in like, seriously, two minutes playing with the flashlight and mask. All of the sudden I was seeing the shadows AND the highlights and how they worked in conjuctions with light distance and height.

And it never hurts to read a grip of good books on whatever subject you ware learning. I spent a lot of time doing that, and even outlining each book so I could review it in my spare time--invaluable.
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kaelaria

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Shutter rating - what does it mean?
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2006, 08:38:00 am »

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learning is different for everyone
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Exactly the point!  And as with another recent thread around here I'll make this point again - *different* does not mean *better*.    Some people take more shots than others to lean a point.  That's just a fact, not a judgement point nor does it link to the shooters ability or any other attribute.
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dwdallam

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Shutter rating - what does it mean?
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2006, 10:58:26 pm »

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Exactly the point!  And as with another recent thread around here I'll make this point again - *different* does not mean *better*.    Some people take more shots than others to lean a point.  That's just a fact, not a judgement point nor does it link to the shooters ability or any other attribute.
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True enough, but logic dictates that the more you learn, the less you will need to shoot to get what you want, if you are learning. If you shotgun thousands of images without knowing exactly why you got that "one" good image, or why the other 1, 000 were bad, you're wasting your time. "Wasting your time" becsaue you haven't learned how to get taht one good iamge in the future. In other words, your shooting and relying on luck (not to say you are personally, but in general).
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kaelaria

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Shutter rating - what does it mean?
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2006, 10:05:46 am »

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eronald

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« Reply #30 on: October 27, 2006, 09:43:49 am »

Ok, you go to a fashion show, and you shoot click-click-click every time a new girl with a new dress comes round. Then you go backstage, have some champagne, and you go to the next show. At the end of one day like that you'll have quite a few images. You need all of them. At the end of the week your camera shutter has depreciated considerably. I am now on my third 1Ds shutter. The camera is still going strong.

When I am at home, doing still-lifes I don't take more than 10 shots at a time - don't need to, and anyway the computer tells me whether I have what I need.

Edmund

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I have no idea how you can seriously review and learn from 2500 images in two weeks. As I become more "pro" and less "prosumer" I find myself taking less images, and getting better pictures. I've been shooting with my 5D for about 2 months, after having a 20D for a year, and have only taken around 2, 000 images maximum, and I shoot nearly everyday, plus that includes play images (snapshots) . I'm at a point in my life that if I wanted, I could shoot images and think about photography 24-7, but I doubt I could, would, or could justify shooting 5, 000 images in two weeks.

In any event, your shutter will break in time. You send it in to Canon and they repair it. No big deal.
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« Last Edit: October 27, 2006, 09:47:24 am by eronald »
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dwdallam

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Shutter rating - what does it mean?
« Reply #31 on: October 27, 2006, 11:13:24 pm »

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Ok, you go to a fashion show, and you shoot click-click-click every time a new girl with a new dress comes round. Then you go backstage, have some champagne, and you go to the next show. At the end of one day like that you'll have quite a few images. You need all of them. At the end of the week your camera shutter has depreciated considerably. I am now on my third 1Ds shutter. The camera is still going strong.

When I am at home, doing still-lifes I don't take more than 10 shots at a time - don't need to, and anyway the computer tells me whether I have what I need.

Edmund
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Yeah that's pretty much it.
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