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Author Topic: Trump III - the daily log  (Read 37801 times)

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Trump III - the daily log
« Reply #160 on: July 23, 2018, 08:40:47 am »

RuhRoh...



So, is Donny pissed off at Iran, North Korea (for dragging their heels) the mainstream media or Mueller and the 13 angry Democrats? Maybe it's Cohen for recording him or Giuliani for releasing the tape to the FBI even though it was deemed protected...

The Tweet sounds somewhat derivative...

'Fire and fury'

While at his golf resort in Bedminster, New Jersey, Trump said: "North Korea best not make any more threats to the United States."

"They will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen," he said, with his arms crossed as he addressed reporters.


And just to remind everyone, there was a working de-nuclearization agreement in force with Iran that was working just fine. It was Trump who tore it apart, and I've yet to hear a cogent reason why.
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RSL

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Re: Trump III - the daily log
« Reply #161 on: July 23, 2018, 09:01:23 am »

What makes you think it was working, Robert?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump III - the daily log
« Reply #162 on: July 23, 2018, 09:24:14 am »

And just to remind everyone, there was a working de-nuclearization agreement in force with Iran that was working just fine. It was Trump who tore it apart, and I've yet to hear a cogent reason why.
Here' why.

Cancelling the Iran deal now means we can continue to make sure Iran doesn't produce nuclear weapons even after the originally agreed upon time of 5 or 10 years from when the current agreement ends and they can restart their nuclear program and develop a nuclear bomb.  Do we need a nuclear armed North Korea in the Middle East? 


Trump restarted sanctions against Iran.  This will put pressure on them not to spend their money interfering in the Middle East, challenging Israel, Saudi Arabia and other friends of ours there and supporting the Syrian dictator Assad who's killing his people and causing the refugee crisis that has extended into Europe.  If peace returns, maybe many of the refugees could be sent home from Europe and elsewhere ending cultural conflicts there.  Additionally, the pressure on the regime due to the sanctions may help liberal forces in Iran overthrow the mullahs. We would prefer having a regime friendly to the US and the west.



What I find interesting is the world's bi-polar reaction to Trump and American power.  When Trump threatens that we might pull out of NATO, everyone gets nervous and complains he's reacting crazy.  NATO helps keep peace in the world.  They need America to keep the peace.  However, when Trump cancels the Iran deal to stop a dangerous country that's helping to stir up problems throughout the world, everyone says Trump and America is throwing its weight around like a bully.  You get nervous that America is acting like a tough cop.  I wish you guys would make up your mind what your want from America. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump III - the daily log
« Reply #163 on: July 23, 2018, 09:28:11 am »

Oh, I forgot that if Iran stops helping Assad and the Russians there, maybe we can get Russia to withdraw too.  Do we really want the Russians in the Middle East? 

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Trump III - the daily log
« Reply #164 on: July 23, 2018, 10:05:40 am »

I'm wasting my time, I know, but I'll answer. Every interview I've ever heard with several Americans have said that the Iranian deal was accomplishing what it set out to accomplish. I googled and there were dozens of hits, here's one: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/07/iran-nuclear-deal-two-years/533556/.

I know, I know, FAKE news, right?

The agreement was about one narrow topic, building of nuclear weapons, but for some reason you're trying to drag all kinds of other things into the mix. Fine, have it your way, let's see what Trump's tactics (assuming he has any) accomplish.

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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Trump III - the daily log
« Reply #165 on: July 23, 2018, 10:17:58 am »

Oh, I forgot that if Iran stops helping Assad and the Russians there, maybe we can get Russia to withdraw too.  Do we really want the Russians in the Middle East?
With Putin being Trump's bro-friend do you really think this will happen?  They have been in Syria longer than Iran.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Trump III - the daily log
« Reply #166 on: July 23, 2018, 10:21:18 am »

More on the FISA warrant's from James Hohmann in today's Washington Post with a great quote from Senator Rubio,

In fact, the release of the FISA warrants further undermines the credibility of the partisan memo that Trump declassified in February from House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes (R-Calif.). Contrary to its central claims, the warrants show that the judges were told that the source of the so-called dossier had political motivations. While most of the warrants are still redacted, it’s also clear that the FBI was basing its request on more than just what former British spy Christopher Steele told them.

“The Nunes memo accused the FBI of dishonesty in failing to disclose information about Steele, but in fact the Nunes memo itself was dishonest in failing to disclose what the FBI disclosed,” writes David Kris, a former assistant attorney general for national security, on Lawfare. “Now we can see that the footnote disclosing Steele’s possible bias takes up more than a full page in the applications, so there is literally no way the FISA Court could have missed it.”

The warrant also shows that the government told the judges after Steele went to the press with the dossier when FBI Director James Comey sent his October 2016 letter to Congress disclosing the discovery of the Anthony Weiner laptop in the Hillary Clinton investigation. “According to the FISA applications, Steele complained that Comey’s action could influence the election,” Kris notes. “But when Steele went to the press, it caused FBI to close him out as an informant—facts which are disclosed and cross-referenced in the footnote in bold text.”
Moreover, Page was no longer associated with the Trump campaign by the time the FISA warrant was approved – so this cannot really be considered surveillance on the Trump campaign. And Obama was not involved in authorizing the surveillance.

The Nunes memo also falsely claimed that a Yahoo News article was used to corroborate the dossier, even though Steele had been the source. In fact, the article was cited in a section on “Page’s Denial of Cooperation with the Russian Government.” It was used to lay out an argument against the warrant.
Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), a member of the Intelligence Committee, said the newly disclosed materials show that the FBI followed the law and had “a lot of reasons unrelated to the dossier” for why it wanted to monitor Page.

“I have a different view on this issue than the president and the White House,” Rubio said on CBS’s “Face the Nation.” “They did not spy on the campaign from anything that I have seen. You have an individual here who has openly bragged about his ties to Russia and Russians. … And the FBI’s job is to protect this country from threats … So they look at all this information. They say: We have a guy here who's always in Russia, brags about Russia, and we have reason to believe -- and they list those reasons – why this is someone we should be watching. And they followed the legal process by which to do so.”
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digitaldog

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Re: Trump III - the daily log
« Reply #167 on: July 23, 2018, 11:16:56 am »

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RSL

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Re: Trump III - the daily log
« Reply #168 on: July 23, 2018, 11:57:03 am »

And you found that convincing, Andrew?
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digitaldog

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Re: Trump III - the daily log
« Reply #169 on: July 23, 2018, 12:04:30 pm »

Yes!
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RSL

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Re: Trump III - the daily log
« Reply #170 on: July 23, 2018, 12:18:30 pm »

Wow! Would you be interested in a bridge I have for sale?
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kers

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Re: Trump III - the daily log
« Reply #171 on: July 23, 2018, 12:30:32 pm »

https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/focus/iran
Is not that the same agency that were right that Irak did not have:
“Weapons of mass destruction”
?

Still another useless war was started, killing 100.000 +++ people

We can blame Obama for not being president then
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump III - the daily log
« Reply #172 on: July 23, 2018, 01:23:54 pm »

I'm wasting my time, I know, but I'll answer. Every interview I've ever heard with several Americans have said that the Iranian deal was accomplishing what it set out to accomplish. I googled and there were dozens of hits, here's one: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/07/iran-nuclear-deal-two-years/533556/.

I know, I know, FAKE news, right?

The agreement was about one narrow topic, building of nuclear weapons, but for some reason you're trying to drag all kinds of other things into the mix. Fine, have it your way, let's see what Trump's tactics (assuming he has any) accomplish.


The agreement stimulated a more serious cancer to grow.  It put a short term halt to Iran nuclear development but allowed them to become an increased threat to the Middle East.  It also allows them to make a nuclear bomb when the agreement ends in a few years.  So we'll be faced with a more serious problem.  Trump will not put his head in the sand like the rest of the world who wants to go along to get along.  Making money for them is more important than stopping Iran.  If you want to only consider a portion of the whole Iran issue, go ahead.  We won't. 

Hopefully pressure due to sanctions will force Iran to back off support for Assad, help push the Russians out of Syria, reduce Iran's threat to our ME friends and help Iranian democrats to overthrow the mullahs.  They won't need nukes then. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump III - the daily log
« Reply #173 on: July 23, 2018, 01:28:48 pm »

With Putin being Trump's bro-friend do you really think this will happen?  They have been in Syria longer than Iran.
Iran is providing the foot soldiers, Russia the air force.  Without troops, Assad and his Russian air force are vulnerable.  Putin isn't going to allow his jets from getting blown up.  He'll pull out leaving Assad to fend for himself.   

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump III - the daily log
« Reply #174 on: July 23, 2018, 01:31:34 pm »

More on the FISA warrant's from James Hohmann in today's Washington Post with a great quote from Senator Rubio,

In fact, the release of the FISA warrants further undermines the credibility of the partisan memo that Trump declassified in February from House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes (R-Calif.). Contrary to its central claims, the warrants show that the judges were told that the source of the so-called dossier had political motivations. While most of the warrants are still redacted, it’s also clear that the FBI was basing its request on more than just what former British spy Christopher Steele told them.

“The Nunes memo accused the FBI of dishonesty in failing to disclose information about Steele, but in fact the Nunes memo itself was dishonest in failing to disclose what the FBI disclosed,” writes David Kris, a former assistant attorney general for national security, on Lawfare. “Now we can see that the footnote disclosing Steele’s possible bias takes up more than a full page in the applications, so there is literally no way the FISA Court could have missed it.”

The warrant also shows that the government told the judges after Steele went to the press with the dossier when FBI Director James Comey sent his October 2016 letter to Congress disclosing the discovery of the Anthony Weiner laptop in the Hillary Clinton investigation. “According to the FISA applications, Steele complained that Comey’s action could influence the election,” Kris notes. “But when Steele went to the press, it caused FBI to close him out as an informant—facts which are disclosed and cross-referenced in the footnote in bold text.”
Moreover, Page was no longer associated with the Trump campaign by the time the FISA warrant was approved – so this cannot really be considered surveillance on the Trump campaign. And Obama was not involved in authorizing the surveillance.

The Nunes memo also falsely claimed that a Yahoo News article was used to corroborate the dossier, even though Steele had been the source. In fact, the article was cited in a section on “Page’s Denial of Cooperation with the Russian Government.” It was used to lay out an argument against the warrant.
Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), a member of the Intelligence Committee, said the newly disclosed materials show that the FBI followed the law and had “a lot of reasons unrelated to the dossier” for why it wanted to monitor Page.

“I have a different view on this issue than the president and the White House,” Rubio said on CBS’s “Face the Nation.” “They did not spy on the campaign from anything that I have seen. You have an individual here who has openly bragged about his ties to Russia and Russians. … And the FBI’s job is to protect this country from threats … So they look at all this information. They say: We have a guy here who's always in Russia, brags about Russia, and we have reason to believe -- and they list those reasons – why this is someone we should be watching. And they followed the legal process by which to do so.”


The Russians were spying on the Democrats.  And the Democrats were spying on the Republicans.  The rest is conversation. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump III - the daily log
« Reply #175 on: July 23, 2018, 01:46:43 pm »

For my liberal friends.  See.  I don't take this so seriously after all. :)

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Trump III - the daily log
« Reply #176 on: July 23, 2018, 02:08:14 pm »

Iran is providing the foot soldiers, Russia the air force.  Without troops, Assad and his Russian air force are vulnerable.  Putin isn't going to allow his jets from getting blown up.  He'll pull out leaving Assad to fend for himself.
Russia has a large naval facility at Tartus in Syria which is the only port they have on the Mediterranean Sea.  This is of great strategic importance to the and is used to supply the Syrian Army.  Iran does not have its own soldiers in Syria but uses their proxies the Hezbollah.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump III - the daily log
« Reply #177 on: July 23, 2018, 02:34:41 pm »

Russia has a large naval facility at Tartus in Syria which is the only port they have on the Mediterranean Sea.  This is of great strategic importance to the and is used to supply the Syrian Army.  Iran does not have its own soldiers in Syria but uses their proxies the Hezbollah.

So if Iran stopped supporting Hezbollah due to our pressure on Iran, Hezbollah foot soldiers would stop supporting Assad.  It would still create problems for the Russians and Assad.  It would help weaken Hezbollah in Lebanon also to our advantage and Hezbollah's danger to Israel.  All the good guys win. 

digitaldog

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Re: Trump III - the daily log
« Reply #178 on: July 23, 2018, 02:40:34 pm »

Wow! Would you be interested in a bridge I have for sale?
No!
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James Clark

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Re: Trump III - the daily log
« Reply #179 on: July 23, 2018, 03:34:22 pm »

For my liberal friends.  See.  I don't take this so seriously after all. :)



:)
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