Trump III - the daily log

[Frans Waterlander]

Fascism? Say that to Los Angeles, New York, Chicago. Hell, say it to the Cajuns of Louisiana, rednecks of Mississippi, midwestern ranchers, women of Hollywood, and be prepared to die, MF! 

 

MF? And this is acceptable behavior? Where are the moderators anyway? Participating in this garbage? Do we really want this forum go the way of the Popular Photography and Shutterbug forums?

[Farmer]

On the other hand, the Constitution still stands. So that would amaze them as well since they didn't think it would protect us from ourselves.

Jefferson would be very disappointed.

[Robert Roaldi]

In certain areas that's true.  But there are major ways the Federal government effects our lives.

War-  especially when the Congress has often abandoned its constitutional responsibility to be the ones that declare it, not the President who they've given the power too much to often.

Taxes and debt - When half your income goes to income, social security and medicare taxes, they are a major factor on how your money that you earned is spent and saved. 

Social security and medicare - another two major factors in how you live and allocate resources to your retirement and medical care.  The government has decided what's good for you.  Include Obamacare for those who are under 65.

The Fed - An unelected group that prints money devaluing through inflation whatever money the government hasn't seized from you to pay for government expenses that can't be paid with the nearly confiscatory taxes they collect.

The NSA -  and other security departments that monitor and snoop into your everyday private communications with other American citizens

Did I miss anything?  What freedoms are left???

You have a bizarre view of things. Most of these are services that you have decided to buy for yourselves. If social security exists, it's because the free market was not providing it and millions of people suffered. When market failures occur, governments sometimes step in for everyone's good. Calling that kind of social service an encroachment on freedom is beside the point. Is funding your police departments an encroachment on freedom? Is building the interstate highway system an encroachment on freedom?

[JoeKitchen]

That is not necessarily the case.  The Pew Research study cited in the article shows party identification trending Republican in only the "Silent Generation" (birthdates 1928-45).  The Baby Boom generation (1946-64) still trends Democratic.  Republican party identification has shown a steeper drop than Democratic with a shift to more Independents.  In addition, Republican identification tends to be older and more white than Democratic which does not portend well for the Republicans.

And other polls have shown that if you take out the words Republican, Democrat, Conservative, and Liberal from the polling and questions and rely on policies, the current Millennials are more fiscally conservative that any other current generation were at their same age. 

[JoeKitchen]

You have a bizarre view of things. Most of these are services that you have decided to buy for yourselves. If social security exists, it's because the free market was not providing it and millions of people suffered. When market failures occur, governments sometimes step in for everyone's good. Calling that kind of social service an encroachment on freedom is beside the point. Is funding your police departments an encroachment on freedom? Is building the interstate highway system an encroachment on freedom?

I would not call it free market failure, but the failure of the person.  It's amazing how many people during the recession just could not except that they bought a house too expensive, or did not take the time to learn what a ARM is.  People don't save or think about the future; most people are stupid when it comes to stuff like this. 

Whether or not we let people learn the hard way or help them out is up for debate, but to say it is the free markets fault people get into messes is a joke. 

[Rob C]

Good God, you made a post without a mention of tariffs.

Laugh of the day!

Thanks, stamper, I needed one.

;-)

[Rob C]

 

At least it explains why all those pretty women go to bed with him. Irresistible.

;-)

[Alan Klein]

You have a bizarre view of things. Most of these are services that you have decided to buy for yourselves. If social security exists, it's because the free market was not providing it and millions of people suffered. When market failures occur, governments sometimes step in for everyone's good. Calling that kind of social service an encroachment on freedom is beside the point. Is funding your police departments an encroachment on freedom? Is building the interstate highway system an encroachment on freedom?

You conveniently ignored war, taxes and debt, the NSA, and the Fed on ways the Federal government has a major effect on our lives and freedom.  Regarding social security, the deduction from our salaries also has a major effect on how we live and save for retirement. Some people may think its a great idea.  But that's beside the point.  It still has a major effect on us.  My post was in response to another post to show that the federal government has a very heavy handed effect on us, more then state governments do.  Your response was a non sequitur.  Go read back the thread.

[RSL]

Alan, do you actually enjoy arguing with these guys? It's hopeless. Their minds are made up and nothing... nothing is gonna change them.

[Alan Goldhammer]

And other polls have shown that if you take out the words Republican, Democrat, Conservative, and Liberal from the polling and questions and rely on policies, the current Millennials are more fiscally conservative that any other current generation were at their same age.

Yes, and they are also almost 100% libertarian on all social issues such as abortion, gay marriage, and some other stuff that goes against the current make up of the Republican party.  They are also more sympathetic to open immigration.

[Alan Goldhammer]

The President's Tweets today about the release of the Carter Page surveillance FISA documents best points out why some of us have very little faith in him as a leader because of his propensity to overlook the truth (though perhaps some on this thread might think this to be opinion ).  Thought some of the documents are blacked out because of intelligence issues, they convincingly show that based on such findings the surveillance was warranted.  The New York Times has more on this story.  For those of you whose free article have run out here is the relevant quote from the story,

"In a series of early-morning tweets, Mr. Trump left unmentioned how the documents laid out in stark detail why the F.B.I. was interested in the former campaign adviser, Carter Page: “The F.B.I. believes Page has been the subject of targeted recruitment by the Russian government.” They also said Mr. Page had “established relationships with Russian government officials, including Russian intelligence officers,” and had been “collaborating and conspiring with the Russian government.”

Those assessments were included in an October 2016 application to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court to wiretap Mr. Page. The New York Times and other news outlets obtained the application and several renewal documents through Freedom of Information Act lawsuits. The president had declassified their existence last year."

The story pretty much also discredits Congressman Deven Nunes's memo (released with help from somebody in the White House) about the surveillance issue.  Alternate realities seldom work in the long run.

[stamper]

Alan, do you actually enjoy arguing with these guys? It's hopeless. Their minds are made up and nothing... nothing is gonna change them.

He enjoys arguing with himself?

[Rob C]

Funny thing: in the last two countries I've lived in, you have both a full National Health Service as well as private medicine if you can afford it.

They appear to work well, and for many years here in Spain I paid into a private scheme for my wife and myself, though we were eligible for the state-funded one too.

She broke her hip one day, and was rushed to the local state hospital because it was half the distance away than was the private one we used for her cancer.

The service and quality of care was so good, that she suggested we should get over it and stop the private insurance. That was ten years ago. My last premium was €3600 per annum, so I guess that the state has saved me €36,000 on the clear understanding that inflation in medicine does not happen! ;-) On top of that, the doctors interchange quite a lot, and you can find the same guy working in both, as we did.

Fortunately, so far, I can't say anything based on experience about the UK version, other than that my granddaughter now wears her stethoscope within it.

The costs of public health are borne by taxation; you pay nothing at Reception before or after they save your life.

Strikes me that choice is a damned fine thing to have: if you have money to burn, go ahead and light the Zippo and free up beds for the not-so-well-off.

The funding, as I say, comes from taxation: why is the UK so keen to phase out the petrolheads' delight, and usher in electric cars? Since taxation is the massive part of gas pricing in Britain, does the coming reduction in petrol sales tax revenue indicate that electricity will have to go up in price to match the lost revenue from oil? Interesting ... you read it first in LuLa.

[Chris Kern]

Thought some of the documents are blacked out because of intelligence issues, they convincingly show that based on such findings the surveillance was warranted.

The released portions of the FISA warrant applications to surveil Carter Page are available here.  I believe this is the first time any of these applications have been made public—prior to declassification they were classified "TOP SECRET/NOFORN"*—and, though they are heavily redacted, it's interesting to see what level of evidence is required to persuade the special Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court to approve national security surveillance of U.S. residents who are believed to be engaged in espionage on behalf of other countries—as opposed to criminal warrants to collect evidence for law enforcement, which can be granted by any judge upon a showing of probable cause.

_____
*For those unfamiliar with U.S. security classification standards, Top Secret is the highest of the three classification levels for national secrets.  (The others are Secret and Confidential.)  There are other types of restrictive tags that may be applied to particular types of information—for example, to limit the dissemination of raw intelligence information.  The "NOFORN" tag means the information may not be distributed to representatives of other countries.

[Alan Klein]

The President's Tweets today about the release of the Carter Page surveillance FISA documents best points out why some of us have very little faith in him as a leader because of his propensity to overlook the truth (though perhaps some on this thread might think this to be opinion ).  Thought some of the documents are blacked out because of intelligence issues, they convincingly show that based on such findings the surveillance was warranted.  The New York Times has more on this story.  For those of you whose free article have run out here is the relevant quote from the story,

"In a series of early-morning tweets, Mr. Trump left unmentioned how the documents laid out in stark detail why the F.B.I. was interested in the former campaign adviser, Carter Page: “The F.B.I. believes Page has been the subject of targeted recruitment by the Russian government.” They also said Mr. Page had “established relationships with Russian government officials, including Russian intelligence officers,” and had been “collaborating and conspiring with the Russian government.”

Those assessments were included in an October 2016 application to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court to wiretap Mr. Page. The New York Times and other news outlets obtained the application and several renewal documents through Freedom of Information Act lawsuits. The president had declassified their existence last year."

The story pretty much also discredits Congressman Deven Nunes's memo (released with help from somebody in the White House) about the surveillance issue.  Alternate realities seldom work in the long run.

How quickly you forget that you and all those other people laughed at Trump when he said his campaign was being spied on. So now it turns out to be true and it was you guys that were wrong.   So Carter Page was surveilled and they found nothing against him that he did anything wrong. There's been no indictment no nothing. When surveilling him could not be approved by the fisa court anymore, they used the phony Trump.dossier produced by Hillary Clinton as an excuse to continue surveillance of the Trump campaign.  Additionally you want us to believe that CIA director Brenner who lied to Congress and now calls Trump a traitor had no Prejudice when he was CIA director in prosecuting the surveillance of trump campaign along with that above board FBI director Comey. Who can believe that?

[Alan Goldhammer]

The funding, as I say, comes from taxation: why is the UK so keen to phase out the petrolheads' delight, and usher in electric cars? Since taxation is the massive part of gas pricing in Britain, does the coming reduction in petrol sales tax revenue indicate that electricity will have to go up in price to match the lost revenue from oil? Interesting ... you read it first in LuLa.

Yet the electricity is not free!!  I don't know if the UK has a tax on electricity and certainly if there is a shift to 100% electric cars, there will be an increased demand for electricity which means burning of more fossil fuel or nuclear or solar or wind.  I don't know what the mix is in the UK.  We now have "electronic refueling" docks in some parking garages here in area.  I don't have an electric car so I cannot tell you what the rates are when you plug your Tesla, Prius, or other battery hungry car into the port.  The bottom line is that there is no such thing as a free lunch.

[Alan Goldhammer]

How quickly you forget that you and all those other people laughed at Trump when he said his campaign was being spied on. So now it turns out to be true and it was you guys that were wrong.   So Carter Page was surveilled and they found nothing against him that he did anything wrong. There's been no indictment no nothing. When surveilling him could not be approved by the fisa court anymore, they used the phony Trump.dossier produced by Hillary Clinton as an excuse to continue surveillance of the Trump campaign.  Additionally you want us to believe that CIA director Brenner who lied to Congress and now calls Trump a traitor had no Prejudice when he was CIA director in prosecuting the surveillance of trump campaign along with that above board FBI director Comey. Who can believe that?

You did not read very carefully.  The dossier was minimally used to obtain the FISA warrant.  We do not know the full extent of Carter Page's involvement because the Mueller investigation is not yet complete.  If you think that only intelligence gathered from CIA and FBI directors was used you need to rethink how both Agencies operate. 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

How quickly you forget that you and all those other people laughed at Trump when he said his campaign was being spied on.

Fake news. At the time Trump said that Obama wiretapped him.

Instead, intelligence agencies were monitoring Russian officials, and some of the conversations they intercepted in the course of their investigations may have also involved Trump aides.

And this has already been discussed back then (many Trump lies ago).

Cheers,
Bart

[Alan Klein]

You did not read very carefully.  The dossier was minimally used to obtain the FISA warrant.  We do not know the full extent of Carter Page's involvement because the Mueller investigation is not yet complete.  If you think that only intelligence gathered from CIA and FBI directors was used you need to rethink how both Agencies operate. 

Carter Page is a nobody. He will never be indicted for anything.   If they believed he did something wrong, the justice department would not have released the FISA warrant they used to surveil him. The release would prejudice their case against him in court. 

[Alan Klein]

Fake news. At the time Trump said that Obama wiretapped him.

Instead, intelligence agencies were monitoring Russian officials, and some of the conversations they intercepted in the course of their investigations may have also involved Trump aides.

And this has already been discussed back then (many Trump lies ago).

Cheers,
Bart

Accusing Obama for spying was Trump hyperbole for the Obama administration surveilling his campaign.  Only the prejudiced media and people who hate TRump thought he meant that President Obama snuck into the basement of Trump Tower, put on earphones and connected its wires to Trump's telephone line to "spy" on him.  The fact is that surveillance material was being collected and was given to Obama through his National Security Adviser Susan Rice. 

Actually the only reason Obama did not release or leak the information of the surveillance is because they thought that Hillary would win anyway.  They were afraid a leak might backfire.  So they didn't release it and the whole election backfired.  Oops.