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Author Topic: The world is laughing.  (Read 21125 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: The world is laughing.
« Reply #40 on: July 17, 2018, 09:39:25 am »

One can say the same thing about other religious/ethnic groups and a number of other presidents.  FDR & European Jews, Eisenhower and Hungary in 1956, LBJ and Nixon in Southeast Asia, Carter and Iran, Reagan in Lebanon, etc.  Placing the blame on Obama for the Kurdish and Iraqis is rather foolish since Bush II got us into Iran without any exit strategy other than "mission accomplished." 
Obama pulled American troops out of Iraq in 2011.  He drew a "red line" in Syria and then failed to act on it.  That caused a vacuum that ISIS filled.  ISIS caused all the subsequent problems in Iraq and partially in Syria and help open the middle east to Iranian influence which brought in the Russians as well.  That caused all the refugees to Europe.  That happened on Obama's watch. That was his decision.   I know that he blamed Bush for 8 years. But that's not how the world works. When you're CEO, you have to take responsibility and act once you take over.  If he didn't want to be burdened by previous president's decisions, he should not have run for office.  Responsibility comes with authority.  It's time you stop giving Obama a pass.  He failed on the international scene. 

James Clark

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Re: The world is laughing.
« Reply #41 on: July 17, 2018, 09:43:01 am »

Whenever a foreigner tells America we're not doing it right, I figure we are.  The phony caring is, well,  phony.  Foreigners just want America to keep spending and protecting them at our expense.  Your Canada is paying 1.23% of your GDP for your military.  As a member of NATO, you should be spending 2%.   When you start spending 2%, then you can tell us we're not doing it right.

It's not a zero-sum game, Alan, and as for "caring," I can truthfully say that I place no less value on Robert's well-being than I do on yours, despite the fact that he is Canadian and you, like me, are American.  The goal we should all be striving for is maximum benefit for maximum people, and honestly, if Canada spends 1.5, 1.7, 2.2 or 5% of their GDP on defense, as a practical matter it's sort of irrelevant, except in terms of tokenism.   Do we bear an "unfair" burden for keeping the world on an even keel?  I guess maybe we do, but the payback on that investment has been huge, and it seem to me its money well spent.
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Alan Klein

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Re: The world is laughing.
« Reply #42 on: July 17, 2018, 09:57:03 am »

It's not a zero-sum game, Alan, and as for "caring," I can truthfully say that I place no less value on Robert's well-being than I do on yours, despite the fact that he is Canadian and you, like me, are American.  The goal we should all be striving for is maximum benefit for maximum people, and honestly, if Canada spends 1.5, 1.7, 2.2 or 5% of their GDP on defense, as a practical matter it's sort of irrelevant, except in terms of tokenism.   Do we bear an "unfair" burden for keeping the world on an even keel?  I guess maybe we do, but the payback on that investment has been huge, and it seem to me its money well spent.

America use to be the world's largest creditor nation.  Today, it's the world's largest debtor nation. This year, our trade deficit will be around $800 billion.  The US deficit will be around $1 trillion dollars.  That's around $3000 for every man, women and child in our country.  That means, me and my wife who are retired Americans are another $6,000 in debt.  Probably twice that amount since half the country won't ever pay taxes.  Social Security and Medicare may be cut.  The country is going broke.  We can;t afford it anymore.  Other nations like Germany, Canada, have become very rich, a lot due to American largesse.  They can afford to pull their weight more.  As Trump said, "we can't be schmucks anymore." 

Rob C

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Re: The world is laughing.
« Reply #43 on: July 17, 2018, 10:44:35 am »

America use to be the world's largest creditor nation.  Today, it's the world's largest debtor nation. This year, our trade deficit will be around $800 billion.  The US deficit will be around $1 trillion dollars.  That's around $3000 for every man, women and child in our country.  That means, me and my wife who are retired Americans are another $6,000 in debt.  Probably twice that amount since half the country won't ever pay taxes.  Social Security and Medicare may be cut.  The country is going broke.  We can;t afford it anymore.  Other nations like Germany, Canada, have become very rich, a lot due to American largesse.  They can afford to pull their weight more.  As Trump said, "we can't be schmucks anymore."


If you are going bust, I think you should look at what you manufacture, how much you pay yourselves for making the stuff, and how willing you are to innovate. You should perhaps cast an eye on how your tax system works and how well or otherwise it collects from your nation's top earners, how much from its internationals who prefer paying "taxes" to Ireland and on and on. There are billions involved there.

Considering you are the leading manufacturers for all the hardware that gets used by NATO and friendly countries, apart from the stuff you flog worldwide, the vast sums spent on defence would appear to trickle right back home, and not disappoint the NRA, either! Look at more sides of the situation than one.

Try thinking beyond your Atlantic/Pacific coasts, or that wall-to-maybe-be down south. You've already pissed off what's up north.

Alan Klein

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Re: The world is laughing.
« Reply #44 on: July 17, 2018, 10:53:49 am »


If you are going bust, I think you should look at what you manufacture, how much you pay yourselves for making the stuff, and how willing you are to innovate. You should perhaps cast an eye on how your tax system works and how well or otherwise it collects from your nation's top earners, how much from its internationals who prefer paying "taxes" to Ireland and on and on. There are billions involved there.

Considering you are the leading manufacturers for all the hardware that gets used by NATO and friendly countries, apart from the stuff you flog worldwide, the vast sums spent on defence would appear to trickle right back home, and not disappoint the NRA, either! Look at more sides of the situation than one.

Try thinking beyond your Atlantic/Pacific coasts, or that wall-to-maybe-be down south. You've already pissed off what's up north.

You're changing the subject.  The issue is tariffs.  Yours are higher than ours.  That's not fair.  Reduce your tariffs to our level and we have a deal. 

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The world is laughing.
« Reply #45 on: July 17, 2018, 11:19:04 am »

From a Facebook post today:

JoeKitchen

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Re: The world is laughing.
« Reply #46 on: July 17, 2018, 11:40:42 am »

One can say the same thing about other religious/ethnic groups and a number of other presidents.  FDR & European Jews, Eisenhower and Hungary in 1956, LBJ and Nixon in Southeast Asia, Carter and Iran, Reagan in Lebanon, etc.  Placing the blame on Obama for the Kurdish and Iraqis is rather foolish since Bush II got us into Iran without any exit strategy other than "mission accomplished."

Not meaning to confrontational here, but how often do countries actually go to war with well thought out exit strategies? 
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: The world is laughing.
« Reply #47 on: July 17, 2018, 11:47:29 am »

America use to be the world's largest creditor nation.  Today, it's the world's largest debtor nation. This year, our trade deficit will be around $800 billion.  The US deficit will be around $1 trillion dollars.  That's around $3000 for every man, women and child in our country.  That means, me and my wife who are retired Americans are another $6,000 in debt.  Probably twice that amount since half the country won't ever pay taxes.  Social Security and Medicare may be cut.  The country is going broke.  We can;t afford it anymore.  Other nations like Germany, Canada, have become very rich, a lot due to American largesse.  They can afford to pull their weight more.  As Trump said, "we can't be schmucks anymore."
IIRC you said you and your wife both drive Acuras.  Part of America's trade deficit is the fondness for foreign produced goods.  America has moved away from manufacturing and into financial services and the like.  Buy America is a great slogan but where are the products?
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: The world is laughing.
« Reply #48 on: July 17, 2018, 11:52:14 am »

Obama pulled American troops out of Iraq in 2011.  He drew a "red line" in Syria and then failed to act on it.  That caused a vacuum that ISIS filled.  ISIS caused all the subsequent problems in Iraq and partially in Syria and help open the middle east to Iranian influence which brought in the Russians as well.  That caused all the refugees to Europe.  That happened on Obama's watch. That was his decision.   I know that he blamed Bush for 8 years. But that's not how the world works. When you're CEO, you have to take responsibility and act once you take over.  If he didn't want to be burdened by previous president's decisions, he should not have run for office.  Responsibility comes with authority.  It's time you stop giving Obama a pass.  He failed on the international scene.
Where did I ever give Obama a pass on his conduct of foreign affairs?  My only point in the post was that almost every president had failures of one kind or another.  To focus only on Obama is to ignore the history that came before.  Your statement on the red line in Syria and ISIS is erroneous.  ISIS arose from the Iraq ware that Bush 2 waged.  It originated as a Sunni fight against the installed Shia leadership in Iraq.  It only spread to Syria in 2010.
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Alan Klein

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Re: The world is laughing.
« Reply #49 on: July 17, 2018, 11:56:24 am »

IIRC you said you and your wife both drive Acuras.  Part of America's trade deficit is the fondness for foreign produced goods.  America has moved away from manufacturing and into financial services and the like.  Buy America is a great slogan but where are the products?
I never said we shouldn't trade.  I bought my first Japanese product 53 years ago in 1965 when I was in Japan in the USAF.  It was a Nikon F Photomic T with 50mm and 135mm lenses.  What a 35mm camera that was.  But the issue now is tariffs.  Why should the Japanese, the EU, China and others charge higher tariffs.  It's not fair to us. 

Regarding products we make, it's not down.  I thought that too until I checked.  Actually, the percentage of manufacturing against the GDP, around 18%, has been constant for decades.  What's down is the number of Americans who are needed to produce manufactured products.   It's like what happened to farming.  We produce huge amount of farm products.  But due to automation, we don;t need as many farmers and farm hands.  Look how cars are built.  Automation has reduce the amount of car workers. 

Alan Klein

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Re: The world is laughing.
« Reply #50 on: July 17, 2018, 12:05:25 pm »

Where did I ever give Obama a pass on his conduct of foreign affairs?  My only point in the post was that almost every president had failures of one kind or another.  To focus only on Obama is to ignore the history that came before.  Your statement on the red line in Syria and ISIS is erroneous.  ISIS arose from the Iraq ware that Bush 2 waged.  It originated as a Sunni fight against the installed Shia leadership in Iraq.  It only spread to Syria in 2010.

My statement included the fact that Obama pulled American troops out too early in 2011.  That created a vacuum that ISIS filled.  You can't blame Bush for what happened before.  That would be like Bush blaming the British for dividing up the Middle East the way they did after WWI by including Shia and Sunni in the same country. 

Here's an article from a book that Leon Panetta wrote blaming Obama for pulling out of Iraq in 2011 and allowing ISIS to form.  Panetta was Obama's Secretary of Defense.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/leon-panetta-criticizes-obama-for-iraq-withdrawal/

RSL

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Re: The world is laughing.
« Reply #51 on: July 17, 2018, 12:07:30 pm »

I never said we shouldn't trade.  I bought my first Japanese product 53 years ago in 1965 when I was in Japan in the USAF.  It was a Nikon F Photomic T with 50mm and 135mm lenses.  What a 35mm camera that was.  But the issue now is tariffs.  Why should the Japanese, the EU, China and others charge higher tariffs.  It's not fair to us. 

Regarding products we make, it's not down.  I thought that too until I checked.  Actually, the percentage of manufacturing against the GDP, around 18%, has been constant for decades.  What's down is the number of Americans who are needed to produce manufactured products.   It's like what happened to farming.  We produce huge amount of farm products.  But due to automation, we don;t need as many farmers and farm hands.  Look how cars are built.  Automation has reduce the amount of car workers.

Right on, Alan. And I bought my Canon 7 in Vietnam in 1965. A beautiful Leica knockoff. I loved that camera.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The world is laughing.
« Reply #52 on: July 17, 2018, 12:09:25 pm »

My statement included the fact that Obama pulled American troops out too early in 2011...

A clear case of premature evacuation  ;)

RSL

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Re: The world is laughing.
« Reply #53 on: July 17, 2018, 12:13:28 pm »

The world always laughs at the United States, right up to the point where, again and again we have to pull the world's nuts out of the fire. But after all, we're rubes. Look at Trump. What a rube. There's no explaining why the U.S. economy is back on track and people are back at work. How could that possibly be a result of a rube like Trump? Cause and effect is hard for left-wingers to understand. Always has been.
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LesPalenik

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Re: The world is laughing.
« Reply #54 on: July 17, 2018, 12:20:55 pm »

Regarding products we make, it's not down.  I thought that too until I checked.  Actually, the percentage of manufacturing against the GDP, around 18%, has been constant for decades.  What's down is the number of Americans who are needed to produce manufactured products.   It's like what happened to farming.  We produce huge amount of farm products.  But due to automation, we don;t need as many farmers and farm hands.  Look how cars are built.  Automation has reduce the amount of car workers.

Ironically, sometimes too much automation can reduce the productivity. Even in a high-tech industry.

Quote
“Excessive automation at Tesla was a mistake. To be precise, my mistake,” the CEO wrote in a tweet Friday, hours after CBS aired an interview in which he acknowledged putting too many robots in Tesla’s lone auto factory. “Humans are underrated.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-13/musk-tips-his-tesla-cap-to-humans-after-robots-undercut-model-3

https://techcrunch.com/2018/03/28/tesla-is-overusing-automation-in-model-3-final-assembly-analysts-say/
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Alan Klein

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Re: The world is laughing.
« Reply #55 on: July 17, 2018, 12:22:46 pm »

Right on, Alan. And I bought my Canon 7 in Vietnam in 1965. A beautiful Leica knockoff. I loved that camera.

Russ, How did you buy a camera in Vietnam in 1965?  Were you a spy?   :)

RSL

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Re: The world is laughing.
« Reply #56 on: July 17, 2018, 12:37:38 pm »

Russ, How did you buy a camera in Vietnam in 1965?  Were you a spy?   :)

Alan, in 1965 I was commander of this beautiful radar site -- Paddy Control -- in the delta. I bought the camera in the army PX.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The world is laughing.
« Reply #57 on: July 17, 2018, 01:00:00 pm »

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/article215016100.html

"Rand Paul and Donald Trump bond over Trump’s performance with Putin"

Quote
... Paul called the criticism directed at Trump misguided and said it was a “mistake” for critics to turn the meeting into a “partisan escapade.”

“This is an extraordinary thing about President Trump that should be lauded and not belittled,” Paul said on CBS This Morning, noting that the Putin summit and Trump’s meeting last month with North Korea’s leader shows “he is willing to meet with adversaries to try to prevent us from having World War III.”

Quote
Paul also defended Trump’s criticism of the investigation into Russian election meddling, arguing that Trump was “sensitive” after 18 months of what he called an “onslaught of partisan investigations.”

Quote
Paul was an enthusiastic supporter of Trump’s decision to meet with Putin in the first place, writing earlier this week in Politico that “dialogue is especially important when hundreds of millions of lives are at stake, as is the case in relations between the United States and nuclear-armed Russia.”

Paul also said he plans to travel to Russia “in an attempt to discuss common ground with their leaders and help prevent further, unnecessary escalation of tensions.” He said he planned to discuss trade, cultural exchanges “and how to better work for peace and prosperity in the world” and would consult with Trump before his visit.

James Clark

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Re: The world is laughing.
« Reply #58 on: July 17, 2018, 01:27:39 pm »

There's no explaining why the U.S. economy is back on track and people are back at work. How could that possibly be a result of a rube like Trump? Cause and effect is hard for left-wingers to understand. Always has been.

 ::)

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OmerV

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Re: The world is laughing.
« Reply #59 on: July 17, 2018, 01:43:56 pm »

The world always laughs at the United States, right up to the point where, again and again we have to pull the world's nuts out of the fire. But after all, we're rubes. Look at Trump. What a rube. There's no explaining why the U.S. economy is back on track and people are back at work. How could that possibly be a result of a rube like Trump? Cause and effect is hard for left-wingers to understand. Always has been.

The Republicans and Trump were handed a good economy which was reconstructed by the previous administration (Obama) after it was handed a recession by the W. Bush administration.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/article215016100.html

"Rand Paul and Donald Trump bond over Trump’s performance with Putin"


You left out what Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, and other Republicans are saying.

From John McCain: No prior president has ever abased himself more abjectly before a tyrant.

From Jeff Flake: I never thought I would see the day when our American President would stand on the stage with the Russian President and place blame on the United States for Russian aggression. This is shameful.

The United States has long had economic ties with China, Vietnam, and other non-democratic states, including Russia. Rand Paul is not saying anything new. What he is doing is being an opportunistic apologist for a bumbling Trump.

 
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