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Author Topic: Poor Harley Davidson...  (Read 1675 times)

Rand47

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Re: Poor Harley Davidson...
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2018, 07:52:29 PM »

I don't have anything much nice to say about our President's puerile behavior.

But I can say this.  If anyone thinks the current imposition of tariffs is "the" cause for HD contemplating doing mfg overseas, my guess is that is totally a naïve notion.  Large companies are doing future projections several years ahead of actions taken.  They may have seized on the announcements to get the most spin from their decision, but the decision was made long ago I'm reasonably sure.

Actually, if I wanted to be cynical, I'd venture a guess that this timing of the announcement was probably a stroke of luck for HD.  Their own "fan base" here in the US is largely made up of folk who think "MADE IN USA" good.... Made anywhere else, CRAP."  where motorcycles are concerned.  (BMW being a possible exception amongst the Harley-ites.  There's some grudging respect there.)  So, to be able to "blame it on Trump" as the reason for the move will have the faithful pissed off at the Pres and not at HD for being "sell outs."

For the scooter fans out there, I've owned and ridden HD and BMW, so no bias there on my part.

Rand 
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Rand Scott Adams

Chris Kern

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Re: Poor Harley Davidson...
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2018, 08:29:31 PM »

Isn't it funny how attempt in intervene always end up with counter-productive side effects?

Not always, just when the intervention is incompetent, and attempts to circumvent the long-accepted mechanisms for resolving international trade issues.

There's no question that economic "globalization" has displaced many workers in the United States.  And that quite a few of them were left behind in the economic recovery that took place during the Obama Administration.

The United States also has legitimate complaints about some of the tariff barriers erected by our major trading partners, including several European countries which still practice a form of dirigisme.  (Of course, the United States is not entirely blameless in this regard: Canadian dairy? American sugar.)

These are appropriate issues for the Trump Administration to address.

The problem is that the few senior appointive policy-makers in the Administration who appear to appreciate the complexities of international trade have either been pushed out or marginalized because el señor Loco has an aversion to expertise and to the give-and-take that inevitably must take place when different governments (especially democratic ones, but even autocratic governments such as China's) attempt to satisfy their respective domestic economic constituencies.

The United States was the prime mover behind the establishment of the World Trade Organization and its predecessor as forums to resolve these complex international issues and, historically, the United States has tended to do quite well when it brought disputes before them.  But bypassing the established international trade forum on the emotional whims of an erratic leader does indeed produce unexpected, but entirely unsurprising, results.

It's easy to start trade wars.  It's difficult to contain them.  The United States was largely responsible for creating a rules-based international trade system and now — at least, for the moment — the current national Administration seems to be abandoning it.

Two23

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Re: Poor Harley Davidson...
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2018, 11:57:31 PM »

I find this interesting because other than the cabal in the white house, is there anyone who thought that something good could come out of a trade war?


There will be no "trade war."   Remember that just a year ago the bash-Trump press was predicting a nuclear war with N. Korea.  The press has gone to hysterical limits with their hyperbole.


Kent in SD
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Alan Klein

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Re: Poor Harley Davidson...
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2018, 12:51:40 AM »

The irony of it being HD to be among the first to "show the white flag" is nothing if not delightful.  8)

Exactly what I thought.  Rough and tumble HD.  A bunch of chickens. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Poor Harley Davidson...
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2018, 01:11:07 AM »


There will be no "trade war."   Remember that just a year ago the bash-Trump press was predicting a nuclear war with N. Korea.  The press has gone to hysterical limits with their hyperbole.


Kent in SD

I agree.  Trump isn't looking for a hot war with NK or an economic war with China or Europe. Trump starts negotiations with asking for everything and offering nothing.  He's learned he gets more in the end by being unreasonably tough to start with.  All he wants is for tariffs to be equal or non-existent for everyone.  America will be glad to compete on a fair and equal playing ground. 

His attacks on HD serves a purpose.  It sends a message to other American companies thinking about moving their plants overseas while he's battling for lower foreign tariffs.  That message is : Don't think about it or I will savage you.  Hang tough and I'll get them to lower their tariffs so you can compete better in those countries.  But you have to be firm and patient.  Don't betray me or America.   

American companies will think twice about moving at this time.  They don;t want the President's ire. 

Trump is so concerned because HD sends a message to foreign countries that their tariffs are working.  That they can wait to settle because America will blink first.  They'll wait us out extending the battle and lessen the chance for successful negotiations if not an outright trade war. 

The fact it's Harley Davidson running for cover at the first fusillade is really embarrassing I have to say being a fan of them all my life. 

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Poor Harley Davidson...
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2018, 03:25:23 AM »

The fact it's Harley Davidson running for cover at the first fusillade is really embarrassing I have to say being a fan of them all my life.

HD is doing the right thing. They are considering creating local jobs where their bikes are being bought.

Obviously they have been strongly encouraged by the increased taxes resulting from Trump's decisions.

Cheers,
Bernard

Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Poor Harley Davidson...
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2018, 03:59:00 AM »

I also have nothing but heartfelt sympathies for children separated from their parents.

I have locked three threads on that topic and made it clear that I will lock any more. Do not attempt to reintroduce it here. It's not relevant to this discussion.

Jeremy
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OmerV

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Re: Poor Harley Davidson...
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2018, 07:38:28 AM »

I agree.  Trump isn't looking for a hot war with NK or an economic war with China or Europe. Trump starts negotiations with asking for everything and offering nothing.  He's learned he gets more in the end by being unreasonably tough to start with.  All he wants is for tariffs to be equal or non-existent for everyone.  America will be glad to compete on a fair and equal playing ground. 

His attacks on HD serves a purpose.  It sends a message to other American companies thinking about moving their plants overseas while he's battling for lower foreign tariffs.  That message is : Don't think about it or I will savage you.  Hang tough and I'll get them to lower their tariffs so you can compete better in those countries.  But you have to be firm and patient.  Don't betray me or America.   

American companies will think twice about moving at this time.  They don;t want the President's ire. 

Trump is so concerned because HD sends a message to foreign countries that their tariffs are working.  That they can wait to settle because America will blink first.  They'll wait us out extending the battle and lessen the chance for successful negotiations if not an outright trade war. 

The fact it's Harley Davidson running for cover at the first fusillade is really embarrassing I have to say being a fan of them all my life.

Trump loves spectacles, and the tariff thing is just that. Harley-Davidson has, perhaps unwittingly, pointed out Trump’s nakedness. H-D has long had facilities in foreign countries, and the new Thailand factory has been known about for months, including by the unions.

This is old news and Trump is petulantly using H-D as a whipping boy not to warn other businesses, but to keep his flimsy masquerade from being seen through by his supporters.


Rob C

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Re: Poor Harley Davidson...
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2018, 07:48:43 AM »

I await reaction from Ford. Having, finally, introduced Mustangs with RHD, they now become threatened with UK extinction (the cars, not the country, which is making a great job of that all by itself with no foreign help) as well as anywhere else using that take on road politics.

Jeremy, rather than allowing hotheads threaten threads with closure (suicide by cop), why not just close down the troublemakers instead for a few days? Nobody will miss them, and they may learn the error of their uncivilized ways.

:-)

Rob

digitaldog

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Re: Poor Harley Davidson...
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2018, 10:12:36 AM »

Jeremy, rather than allowing hotheads threaten threads with closure (suicide by cop), why not just close down the troublemakers instead for a few days? Nobody will miss them, and they may learn the error of their uncivilized ways.
Ah, speaking for others/everyone and speaking of censorship. We've come to this level  :'(
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Andrew Rodney
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Re: Poor Harley Davidson...
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2018, 10:17:04 AM »

What "level" is that, Andrew?

digitaldog

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Re: Poor Harley Davidson...
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2018, 10:18:59 AM »

What "level" is that, Andrew?
Speaking for others/everyone and censorship.  :o
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Andrew Rodney
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Re: Poor Harley Davidson...
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2018, 10:23:42 AM »

As they say in Canada, Andrew: "Eh?"

digitaldog

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Re: Poor Harley Davidson...
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2018, 11:27:05 AM »

As they say in Canada, Andrew: "Eh?"
Maybe this will help?
Parlant pour les autres tout le monde et la censure!  ;D
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Andrew Rodney
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Re: Poor Harley Davidson...
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2018, 11:40:01 AM »

อะไร?

MattBurt

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Re: Poor Harley Davidson...
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2018, 12:41:54 PM »

I agree HD probably had this planned already but the escalating trade war just justified their move as a smart one for their business.

I also find it interesting that Trump is threatening them with some kind of vague tax hike, implying he would just raise taxes on them. Probably an idle threat but it gives some insight to his mindset and respect for established protocols.
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-MattB

degrub

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Re: Poor Harley Davidson...
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2018, 12:50:59 PM »

อะไร?

LOL !

เพื่ออะไร
« Last Edit: June 27, 2018, 12:56:36 PM by degrub »
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RSL

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Re: Poor Harley Davidson...
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2018, 01:07:15 PM »

ฉันไม่รู้

I don't know what Andrew's driving at. I suspect he doesn't know either. But I also suspect that neither French nor Thai is going to help.

digitaldog

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Re: Poor Harley Davidson...
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2018, 01:09:56 PM »

ฉันไม่รู้

I don't know what Andrew's driving at. I suspect he doesn't know either. But I also suspect that neither French nor Thai is going to help.
I don't agree with you. Therefore you are a troublemaker and a hothead, you should be banned here for a few days, nobody will miss you, learn the error of your uncivilized ways.
See now?
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Andrew Rodney
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degrub

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Re: Poor Harley Davidson...
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2018, 01:32:08 PM »

Appears to be playing off Rob's sentiment for no useful purpose to the group.
time for supper.
เป็นไร
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