Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Down

Author Topic: Observer's view  (Read 1650 times)

enduser

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 489
Observer's view
« on: June 23, 2018, 10:48:02 PM »

From the other side of the world it is very saddening to see the great USA tearing itself to pieces. We believed there was "something" about the US that held to the idea of better  world view. It seems that the election of Mr Trump has divided the nation permanently.

Not for us to say right or wrong but we do observe a decline in government policy that holds things like achieving greater public good, sense of high purpose and moral leadership to be important.  The US government used to be the "stand-out" on such things but I fear the neo-liberalism of Thatcher and Reagan, which preaches an "every man for himself" has taken hold throughout the West.

Anyway, good luck, and there's always New Zealand. (US nationals are second highest group migrating to New Zealand currently, Chinese being the largest.   No, I'm not a New Zealander)
Logged

Two23

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 338
Re: Observer's view
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2018, 02:03:43 AM »

From the other side of the world it is very saddening to see the great USA tearing itself to pieces. We believed there was "something" about the US that held to the idea of better  world view. It seems that the election of Mr Trump has divided the nation permanently.




No, I think it was long before that.  Obama certainly did his share of polarization with crap like guy's going pee in the women's room etc.  And, it was going on long before that.  I honestly think it's the 24 hr. media that is driving most of it.  Virtually all of them have become little more than propaganda sites.  Just try to find a single one that will give you a straight take on the news.  I've been unable to find any that do it consistently, and most are obviously in the ideology business now.


Kent in SD


Kent in SD
Logged

Schewe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6158
    • http:www.schewephoto.com
Re: Observer's view
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2018, 04:14:52 AM »

I honestly think it's the 24 hr. media that is driving most of it.  Virtually all of them have become little more than propaganda sites.  Just try to find a single one that will give you a straight take on the news.

Finding unbiased news isn't hard. Ya just gotta look for it. I find sources here: Media Bias/Fact Check - Least Biased

Some notables sources are; AP, cookpolitical.com, Financial Times, International Consortium of Investigative Journalists, McClatchyDC, Politifact, Reuters, That’s Nonsense, The Conversation, The Humanist Magazine, The Knife, The Moderate Voice, The TruthSetter, Transpartisan ReviewThoughtCo, TruthOrFiction.com, United Press International (UPI), USA Facts, World Economic Forum, World Politics Review, World Press Review, World Resources Institute (WRI) to name a few...

As Fox Mulder said "the truth is out there", all ya gotta do is look for it. If you settle for CNN or Fox, you are missing a lot.
Logged

Alan Goldhammer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2885
    • A Goldhammer Photography
Re: Observer's view
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2018, 08:12:08 AM »

In addition to Jeff's list, publicly funded sources such as Propublica and The Guardian both have good investigational teams that go in depth on stories.  If one wants 'balanced' op-ed writing, the Washington Post is perhaps the best available as they feature conservative columnists such as Michael Gerson and George Will along with the liberal ones.  they also routinely invite administration and Congressional leaders to author columns on top issues.  This past week, Senator Lamar Alexander penned a decent defense of the Administration's new approach to solving what they perceive as the weaknesses of Obamacare.
Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18722
Re: Observer's view
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2018, 09:12:00 AM »

In addition to Jeff's list, publicly funded sources such as Propublica and The Guardian both have good investigational teams that go in depth on stories.  If one wants 'balanced' op-ed writing, the Washington Post is perhaps the best available as they feature conservative columnists such as Michael Gerson and George Will along with the liberal ones.  they also routinely invite administration and Congressional leaders to author columns on top issues.  This past week, Senator Lamar Alexander penned a decent defense of the Administration's new approach to solving what they perceive as the weaknesses of Obamacare.


Except, of course, that The Guardian is a mouthpiece for the left.

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13917
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Observer's view
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2018, 09:20:29 AM »

Except, of course, that The Guardian is a mouthpiece for the left.
ONE man's opinion. So it doesn't sync up with the same data as the other's posted here or all those posted here are a mouthpiece for the left, sans actual data?
Logged
Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"

RSL

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10848
    • http://www.russ-lewis.com
Re: Observer's view
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2018, 09:27:12 AM »

From the other side of the world it is very saddening to see the great USA tearing itself to pieces. We believed there was "something" about the US that held to the idea of better  world view. It seems that the election of Mr Trump has divided the nation permanently.

Not for us to say right or wrong but we do observe a decline in government policy that holds things like achieving greater public good, sense of high purpose and moral leadership to be important.  The US government used to be the "stand-out" on such things but I fear the neo-liberalism of Thatcher and Reagan, which preaches an "every man for himself" has taken hold throughout the West.

Anyway, good luck, and there's always New Zealand. (US nationals are second highest group migrating to New Zealand currently, Chinese being the largest.   No, I'm not a New Zealander)

Thanks for the moral lecture, End. Of course, while they become Chinese colonies, neither Australia nor New Zealand would think of allowing political controversies like the ones we have in the U.S. Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I've always thought the world of Aussies, at least since I spent time working with an Australian fighter squadron detachment at Ubon Ratchathani in Thailand in 1964 and 65. Except for their weird pronunciation Aussies are closer to Americans than any other English-speaking group.

But the current problem you're having understanding what's going on in the U.S. is caused by the garbage you read, provided by our almost wholly left-wing "news" media. Just relax. Nothing really has changed except for the sound level. If you look at US history you'll find things like fistfights on the floor of the House of Representatives, even a shooting or two. People in the United States never have been passive bystanders. With the election of the current administration we've become a free people again. Hooray!!!

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13917
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Observer's view
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2018, 09:46:56 AM »

Thanks for the moral lecture, End.
Just that sentence and the snarky-ness behind it illustrates that Jeremy will once again have to shut down a political thread. Just when I was hoping Rob would explain, in his non typical snarky style how The Guardian among other perhaps is a 'mouthpiece for the left.
Define the left, explain if the writers write solely what 'the left' tells them (hence mouthpiece), etc. It's sometimes interesting and useful to see how other people's minds work if you have a tiny respect for their intelligence. That usually starts with comments that don't open your POV by being dismissive and snarky.
Logged
Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18722
Re: Observer's view
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2018, 09:49:13 AM »

1.  From the other side of the world it is very saddening to see the great USA tearing itself to pieces. We believed there was "something" about the US that held to the idea of better  world view. It seems that the election of Mr Trump has divided the nation permanently.

2.  Not for us to say right or wrong but we do observe a decline in government policy that holds things like achieving greater public good, sense of high purpose and moral leadership to be important.  The US government used to be the "stand-out" on such things but I fear the neo-liberalism of Thatcher and Reagan, which preaches an "every man for himself" has taken hold throughout the West.

Anyway, good luck, and there's always New Zealand. (US nationals are second highest group migrating to New Zealand currently, Chinese being the largest.   No, I'm not a New Zealander)


1.  No, I don't think many non-Americans ever imagined that the US of A had a wonderful world view. What we did imagine was that it was the land of enterprise, where the belief was that success lay in one's own hands, to achieve or not to achieve. Of course, it could have been an innocent assumption born of Hollywood. I'm told that many British women married UK-based GIs in the vain expectation of ending up in Beverly Hills only to discover that back at the ranch there wasn't really anything at all.

2.  Hardly; Mrs T was the daughter of a shopkeeper. All she was espousing and generating was the value of self-reliance and the taking of responsibility for one's own life. Remove that, and you have created the "entitlement generation". That's predicated on the assumption that somebody else will permanently pull your chestnuts out of the fire for you. Trouble is, it's never made clear who that somebody else is going to be, and from whence will flow the money that's going to be lavished upon you by the imaginary, devoted, bigger brother you never met.

;-)

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 967
    • Robert's Photos
Re: Observer's view
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2018, 09:51:42 AM »

Of course, while they become Chinese colonies, neither Australia nor New Zealand would think of allowing political controversies like the ones we have in the U.S.

What tripe.
Logged
--
Robert robertroaldi.zenfolio.com

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18722
Re: Observer's view
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2018, 09:53:43 AM »

Just that sentence and the snarky-ness behind it illustrates that Jeremy will once again have to shut down a political thread. Just when I was hoping Rob would explain, in his non typical snarky style how The Guardian among other perhaps is a 'mouthpiece for the left.
Define the left, explain if the writers write solely what 'the left' tells them (hence mouthpiece), etc. It's sometimes interesting and useful to see how other people's minds work if you have a tiny respect for their intelligence. That usually starts with comments that don't open your POV by being dismissive and snarky.

Your lunch - or breakfast, depending on time-zones - has obviously been more replete with vino than mine!

Rob

Alan Goldhammer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2885
    • A Goldhammer Photography
Re: Observer's view
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2018, 10:06:48 AM »

But the current problem you're having understanding what's going on in the U.S. is caused by the garbage you read, provided by our almost wholly left-wing "news" media. Just relax. Nothing really has changed except for the sound level. If you look at US history you'll find things like fistfights on the floor of the House of Representatives, even a shooting or two. People in the United States never have been passive bystanders. With the election of the current administration we've become a free people again. Hooray!!!
You would do well to read Richard Hofstadter's fine essay the Paranoid Style in American Politics.  His Pulitzer Prize winning book, "Anti-Intellectualism in American Life" is also valuable as it describes the provincialism in American society (still present) and distrust of cosmopolitan big city intellectualism.
Logged

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 967
    • Robert's Photos
Re: Observer's view
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2018, 10:09:39 AM »

Mrs T was the daughter of a shopkeeper. All she was espousing and generating was the value of self-reliance and the taking of responsibility for one's own life. Remove that, and you have created the "entitlement generation".

I understand that points sometimes need to be made in an un-nuanced manner, if for no other reason than to avoid too many sub-clauses that confuse things.

There has NEVER been a time where people were self-reliant. There was always a safety net of some form, some backdrop, sometimes formal, sometimes not, some friendly power structure, depending on the social structure of the time. Pendulums swing and mostly overshoot, then come back. This is probably because of societal momentum, not many large entities can turn on a dime. So unions become entrenched and wield too much power. Other times, coal companies kill their employees to save a dime and coerce the health authorities into ignoring the data or even deliberately hide it.

It's easy to feel proud of your achievements when you've slogged your whole life and it's a valid thing to do, but it doesn't mean that everyone else was a lazy ass.



Logged
--
Robert robertroaldi.zenfolio.com

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13917
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Observer's view
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2018, 10:16:15 AM »

Your lunch - or breakfast, depending on time-zones - has obviously been more replete with vino than mine!

Rob
Vino and deserts with breakfast is AOK with this dog.
Logged
Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"

RSL

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10848
    • http://www.russ-lewis.com
Re: Observer's view
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2018, 10:22:46 AM »

Define the left.

We don't have to, Andrew. You're doing a great job illustrating what it is. No further definition needed.

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13917
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Observer's view
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2018, 10:30:14 AM »

We don't have to, Andrew. You're doing a great job illustrating what it is. No further definition needed.
Assumptions, speculation, rubbish. Let Rob answer if he wants, as you cannot!
Logged
Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"

RSL

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10848
    • http://www.russ-lewis.com
Re: Observer's view
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2018, 10:31:24 AM »

You would do well to read Richard Hofstadter's fine essay the Paranoid Style in American Politics.  His Pulitzer Prize winning book, "Anti-Intellectualism in American Life" is also valuable as it describes the provincialism in American society (still present) and distrust of cosmopolitan big city intellectualism.

You said you were leaving The Coffee Corner, Alan, so Jeremy wouldn't pester you any longer. You change your mind?

Alan Goldhammer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2885
    • A Goldhammer Photography
Re: Observer's view
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2018, 10:39:57 AM »

You said you were leaving The Coffee Corner, Alan, so Jeremy wouldn't pester you any longer. You change your mind?
I suspect I just wanted to receive more of your troll-like posts for which you have been reported.

ADDED:  I shall ignore every one of your comments going forward and not respond.
Logged

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13917
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Observer's view
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2018, 10:43:26 AM »

You said you were leaving The Coffee Corner, Alan, so Jeremy wouldn't pester you any longer. You change your mind?
Can you direct me to a post where Jeremy stated this “pestering”? It is entirely possible. I honestly don’t know so I’m asking as that data would be useful for me to understand several “issues” in this forum. TIA!
Logged
Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18722
Re: Observer's view
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2018, 10:50:02 AM »

It's an unfortunate regression to childhood, where seeking to hide behind maternal skirts and teachers was an easy alternative to everything disagreeable.

Leave poor Jeremy in peace, on his beloved ice; there's absolutely nothing for him here on this thread about which to get excited. Heysoos, if every differing point of view requires a referee, we may a well close shop and go home and watch television.

Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Up