Photo of caged children

[Alan Klein]

Well Andrew, I'm glad we were able to agree on something. Thanks   Now if only the Democrats and Republicans could agree, we may actually get some legislation. 

Problem is both sides are using the kids.  The Republicans want to discourage people from coming here knowing they will be separated from their children.  And the Democrats do not want legislation ending this because they want to use the issue in the November elections to embarrass the Republicans.  The kids are in the middle.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Show me the long lines of Americans who are looking for these jobs....

Of course there are none AT CURRENT PRICES, lowered by illegal immigrants.

[Alan Klein]

Show me the long lines of Americans who are looking for these jobs.  Certainly the lawn care and handyman markets are highly competitive in our region yet why is it that we see so few white or black Americans in these jobs.  Heavy construction from what I've observed is a little more balanced but still lots of Hispanics.

Welfare and other government benefits decrease the desire of Americans to get low paying jobs especially if you lose the benefits when you get a job.  Frankly, arresting people for violating immigration laws by hiring illegals is the way to dry up illegal immigration.  But they have to arrest the owners!  Once that happens, illegals will stay home because jobs will dry up and we won't have to build a wall or spend so much on border patrols policing.  Keeping open borders and looking the other way just aggravates the situation.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... Frankly, arresting people for violating immigration laws by hiring illegals is the way to dry up illegal immigration....

Long time ago I suggested a $1 million fine for companies/owners for every illegal worker. But that would never happen, as it would a) penalize the Republican party base (owners) and b) deprive Democrats of voters. Who said there is no bi-partisanship in politics?

[digitaldog]

Heavy construction from what I've observed is a little more balanced but still lots of Hispanics.

Careful, as some may read this as Hispanic workers equals non Americans. 24 years of living in New Mexico has taught me, that's not necessarily the case.

[digitaldog]

Long time ago I suggested a $1 million fine for companies/owners for every illegal worker. But that would never happen, as it would a) penalize the Republican party base (owners) and b) deprive Democrats of voters. Who said there is no bi-partisanship in politics?

And you and I of many products and services! That's probably why your suggestion doesn’t wash.
Of course you'll tell us that you've never hired nor purchased anything that may have been produced by illegal workers.
The answer of course is to make them legal. Trump might agree if they came from the Netherlands.
That many of these illegal workers pay taxes, contribute to our country and do the work so many will not, may be something to consider.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Careful, as some may read this as Hispanic workers equals non Americans. 24 years of living in New Mexico has taught me, that's not necessarily the case.

Love that part

[digitaldog]

Love that part

More agreements? Maybe progress is possible.

[digitaldog]

And the Democrats do not want legislation ending this because they want to use the issue in the November elections to embarrass the Republicans.  The kids are in the middle.

Yes the kids are, however, I don't understand your comment about the Dems. My understanding is the party in power hasn't asked them to come to the table in terms of creating legislation on immigration. Now there is NO question many/most have stated they will not vote for the two bills they apparently have had no chance to work on and they are opposed to the 25 billion dollars for Trumps wall. If that isn't accurate, if indeed Dem's have had a chance to work on these two bills, even bills in the past when republications have had control over congress, I will certainly examine that data and change my 'assumptions' expressed above. 


Lastly, I suspect the damage is done politically, the Dem's don't have to hold up anything simply to embarrass Republicans. Each 'side' has made up their minds in terms of how most/many will vote in November.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... the Dem's don't have to hold up anything simply to embarrass Republicans. Each 'side' has made up their minds in terms of how most/many will vote in November.

Agreed on the last sentence. However, the issue, as I see it, is not as much to change someone's mind (although there is always hope with independents), but to energize the base to come out and actually vote.

[digitaldog]

Agreed on the last sentence. However, the issue, as I see it, is not as much to change someone's mind (although there is always hope with independents), but to energize the base to come out and actually vote.

Wow, I agree on your agreement and the need to energize people to vote. It's sad people need to be energized to vote. It's rather simple (but could be even easier to register and vote).

[Alan Goldhammer]

Of course there are none AT CURRENT PRICES, lowered by illegal immigrants.

Get real.  Those types of jobs have always been minimum wage.  Are you in favor of raising the minimum wage to attract more job candidates?  Of course that would also lead to inflationary pressures.  You cannot have it both ways as much as would like to.

[Alan Goldhammer]

Welfare and other government benefits decrease the desire of Americans to get low paying jobs especially if you lose the benefits when you get a job.  Frankly, arresting people for violating immigration laws by hiring illegals is the way to dry up illegal immigration.  But they have to arrest the owners!  Once that happens, illegals will stay home because jobs will dry up and we won't have to build a wall or spend so much on border patrols policing.  Keeping open borders and looking the other way just aggravates the situation.

What nonsense.  Who is going to work in slaughterhouses and meat packing plants?  Who is going to do stoop labor farm work?  Your proposal is fine if you want to see the price of food go way up.

[digitaldog]

Get real.  Those types of jobs have always been minimum wage. 

Or far less.

Are you in favor of raising the minimum wage to attract more job candidates?

I'm in favor or raising it so people don't have to struggle, live in poverty.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Get real.  Those types of jobs have always been minimum wage.  Are you in favor of raising the minimum wage to attract more job candidates?  Of course that would also lead to inflationary pressures.

This may or may not have something to do with minimum wages. It has everything to do with supply and demand. No workers at current wage levels? Market solution is to raise wages until there are. It may or may not result in raising the minimum wage as well. Weather it would lead to inflationary pressures or a shift from profit to wages (my guess), remains to be seen. If it means raising the minimum wage, so be it. Corporate profits and cash are at historic highs, so there is some room for a redistribution without inflation. Yes, you might pay more for your lawn mowing, or you can move your ass and mow that grass yourself (health benefits of such an exercise included free of charge). Higher wages overall mean a stronger consumer base for the economy, as it will be recycled 100% (as opposed only partially for immigrant workers who send a good chunk of their earnings back home). The ratio of middle class income to overall has never been lower in recent history. So, yes, raise the damn wages and salaries.

The current solution is the worst: illegal workers whose presence lowers wages, are not protected well, are exploited, problems at borders, etc.

[digitaldog]

Corporate profits and cash are at historic highs, so there is some room for a redistribution without inflation.

Room is one thing, are wages going up by and large? By and small?

The current solution is the worst: illegal workers whose presence lowers wages, are not protected well, are exploited, problems at borders, etc.

How are they lowering wages for jobs only they will fill?

[Frans Waterlander]

Room is one thing, are wages going up by and large? By and small? How are they lowering wages for jobs only they will fill?

The quintessential claim by the left: Americans won't do certain jobs that illegal aliens will. This has been debunked over and over, but why not use it anyway?

[digitaldog]

The quintessential claim by the left: Americans won't do certain jobs that illegal aliens will. This has been debunked over and over, but why not use it anyway?

Debunked where, other than in your mind?
Can't answer the question about wages going up either?
Can't answer the question about how they are lowering wages?

[Frans Waterlander]

Debunked where, other than in your mind?

Read up on it, you may learn something!

[digitaldog]

Read up on it, you may learn something!

Done!


https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brookings-now/2017/08/24/do-immigrants-steal-jobs-from-american-workers/
Felbab-Brown explains that many of the jobs occupied by undocumented workers in the United States are physically demanding jobs that Americans do not want, such as gutting fish or work on farm fields. She argues, “fixing immigration is not about mass deportations of people but about creating a legal visa system for jobs Americans do not want. And it is about providing better education opportunities, skills-development and retooling, and safety nets for American workers. And to date, Trump hasn’t offered serious policy proposals on many—if any—of these areas.”

Moreover, Bahar explains that the impact of immigration on the wages of native-born workers is very small. “If anything,” he concludes, “negative impacts occur for the most part on wages of prior immigrants with similar set of skills.”

Thanks for reminding me that you often post here on stuff you don't understand (Solux lighting, NEC Displays) and you have a book aimed at the ultra hard core right: