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Author Topic: Photo of caged children  (Read 17495 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Photo of caged children
« Reply #40 on: June 20, 2018, 03:25:48 pm »

Up to isn't the same as always sir! The crime doesn't AFAIK, demand each person to be placed into jail before a trial or demand the separation of children...

Nobody is "placed in jail before a trial," if by "placed in jail" you mean sentenced to jail. But you are locked up, then you have a hearing in front of the judge who determines if you should remain in locked up until trial or released on bond. In that period, while you are locked up, either awaiting the hearing or trial, children have to be separated, otherwise they'd end up in jail themselves.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Photo of caged children
« Reply #41 on: June 20, 2018, 03:28:04 pm »


Why can't you find such stats yourself?...

Because there isn't any. The Obama administration did not keep it that way, as I already said.

Bye.

RSL

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Re: Photo of caged children
« Reply #42 on: June 20, 2018, 03:33:07 pm »

Here's a question for you, Andrew, and the rest of you who are suffering crocodile tears about all this: Most of these people come up from Central America. Why do you suppose they don't just settle in Mexico? It's farther to go to get to the US.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Photo of caged children
« Reply #43 on: June 20, 2018, 04:47:31 pm »

Here's a question for you, Andrew, and the rest of you who are suffering crocodile tears about all this: Most of these people come up from Central America. Why do you suppose they don't just settle in Mexico? It's farther to go to get to the US.
Emma Lazarus said it better than I can,

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

It's in a choral arrangement that I recently sang in the conclusion to a concert our group gave and the words are also engraved at the Statue of Liberty.  Now I don't know whether your family found refuge in this country but mine sure did, and I'm thankful for it.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Photo of caged children
« Reply #44 on: June 20, 2018, 04:58:01 pm »

Emma Lazarus said it better than I can...

A quarter of a million immigrants were turned down and sent back home at Ellis Island.

Besides, those were different times, when LEGAL immigration was actively encouraged. Even today legal immigration is actively encouraged.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Photo of caged children
« Reply #45 on: June 20, 2018, 05:03:59 pm »

... Most of these people come up from Central America. Why do you suppose they don't just settle in Mexico?

According to my, admittedly limited, knowledge of asylum rules, asylum seekers are entitled to ask for asylum in the first country that is not a part of the hostilities they are running from. Not sure that subsequent countries are under any legal obligation to process them for asylum.

Asylum seeking is a highly regulated by international and U.S. laws. Entering the country illegally and, when caught, claiming asylum rights is not one of those recognized channels and will end you up in jail.

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Photo of caged children
« Reply #46 on: June 20, 2018, 05:47:17 pm »

Here is a link to John Moore photographs of the southern border:  https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2018/06/on-the-border-with-photographer-john-moore/563282/  It's a balanced representation even though his best known image is the one that went viral of the young child crying out for his parent.  Don't prejudge this, just take a look.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Photo of caged children
« Reply #47 on: June 20, 2018, 05:49:13 pm »

A quarter of a million immigrants were turned down and sent back home at Ellis Island.

Besides, those were different times, when LEGAL immigration was actively encouraged. Even today legal immigration is actively encouraged.
Legal immigration has not always been encouraged as you should know.  Immigration quotas have been imposed often and certain populations were favored over others.  The nation has not always been hospitable to immigrants including those who came here against their will.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Photo of caged children
« Reply #48 on: June 20, 2018, 09:20:51 pm »

The pattern to this thread has been interesting. Some opinions were voiced on the morality of what is going on, and the response has basically been, "Nyah, nyah, Obama did it too!" Reminds of when people complain that Al Gore flies in pollution-producing airplanes, as if that's a valid argument for something.

To play devil's advocate, it would be interesting to conduct an experiment but unfortunately it can't be done. I'd like to see what would have happened if those kids were white Europeans.

But to take a step back, I am amazed at the first rate propaganda effort that was put into convincing the richest nation on earth that one of their biggest problems is illegal immigration. Middle class income has stagnated since Reagan, do you really think that is the fault of a few gardeners and farm workers. Your own corporations shipped your good jobs overseas and you allowed the financial sector to rape your economy to mostly enrich people who were already doing ok, and you think that your problems can be solved by spending untold amounts of money getting rid of illegal immigrants who are mostly working in jobs no one else wants? If you want to stop illegal immigration, well ok, I get that, but I can't help thinking this is mostly a diversion and those caged kids are just pawns in a marketing scheme.

But just for the record, if it can be shown that there was a concerted effort to specifically separate kids from their parents as an enforcement tactic, than that must come pretty close to being a crime against humanity. I don't know the legal specifics of what constitutes such a crime so I can't say. But it sure is convenient that the USA is not a signatory to the International Criminal Court.
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jeremyrh

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Re: Photo of caged children
« Reply #49 on: June 21, 2018, 01:26:44 am »

The pattern to this thread has been interesting. Some opinions were voiced on the morality of what is going on, and the response has basically been, "Nyah, nyah, Obama did it too!"

You know very well that if separating and caging children had been an Obama policy, Trump would have outlawed it on Day One, just for spite!
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Photo of caged children
« Reply #50 on: June 21, 2018, 01:26:57 am »

Children are being separated from parents and that is self evidently bad. Introducing what a previous government may or may not have done is not an argument against or for the practice but is a blatant attempt to derail the discussion around what is happening now.

“Trump is separating children from their parents.”
 “That is nothing. Child sacrifices were practiced in South America centuries ago.”
“Oh OK. So no problem with Trump breaking up families then.”

Brilliant argument.
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Jim Pascoe

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Re: Photo of caged children
« Reply #51 on: June 21, 2018, 05:50:11 am »

I don't know or understand all the politics of immigration policy in the US, and the experience here in Europe is proving problematic regarding migrants crossing from Africa.
However to claim the these migrants are 'breaking the law' by entering the US, and that is a reason for locking them up and segregating families, is not reasonable from a moral point of view.
Laws have to make sense to work.  Many laws have been repealed due to changing fashions.  Laws must surely be at their worst when they are enacted purely to protect a position of the privileged.  We can all probably agree that theft or violence against the person should be a crime.  But crossing a border to seek a better life or to escape from war/violence/destitution/hunger?  That is not my idea of crime. 

Who doesn't want to protect or nurture their family?  But that should not be at the expense of others.

Migration is a problem to be dealt with, but making it a crime is not the answer.

Jim

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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Photo of caged children
« Reply #52 on: June 21, 2018, 08:26:37 am »

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digitaldog

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Re: Photo of caged children
« Reply #53 on: June 21, 2018, 09:41:19 am »

Here's a question for you, Andrew, and the rest of you who are suffering crocodile tears about all this: Most of these people come up from Central America. Why do you suppose they don't just settle in Mexico? It's farther to go to get to the US.
Every hear: It's the economy stupid?
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Photo of caged children
« Reply #54 on: June 21, 2018, 09:49:32 am »

Every hear: It's the economy stupid?

Indeed. Which then negates their asylum claim.

digitaldog

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Re: Photo of caged children
« Reply #55 on: June 21, 2018, 09:51:17 am »

Indeed. Which then negates their asylum claim.
Wrong! The two are not mutually exclusive. Read the friggin question if you can: Why do you suppose they don't just settle in Mexico? It's farther to go to get to the US.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Photo of caged children
« Reply #56 on: June 21, 2018, 09:52:51 am »

... the experience here in Europe is proving problematic regarding migrants crossing from Africa...

Hence we do not want your indeed problematic experience repeated here.

digitaldog

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Re: Photo of caged children
« Reply #57 on: June 21, 2018, 09:54:09 am »

Hence we do not want your indeed problematic experience repeated here.
Perfect:

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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Photo of caged children
« Reply #58 on: June 21, 2018, 10:01:31 am »

Perfect:

Cute. This too should have been on the cover a few years back, no?

digitaldog

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Re: Photo of caged children
« Reply #59 on: June 21, 2018, 10:07:15 am »

Cute. This too should have been on the cover a few years back, no?
You simply can't connect the factual dots between separating children, some infants without a process to reunite them, with Obama doing what you hard right law and order republicans demand; throw them out if they are caught illegally! In such tiny minds, Obama can't win no matter what he does; send back huge number of illegal immigrants or not. That he did the former, with an ounce of compassion ignored by those that have NO compassion.

If you can read this article, in part of it, maybe the dots will appear to you:
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2018/jun/19/matt-schlapp/no-donald-trumps-separation-immigrant-families-was/


"Obama generally refrained from prosecution in cases involving adults who crossed the border with their kids," said Peter Margulies, an immigration law and national security law professor at Roger Williams University School of Law. "In contrast, the current administration has chosen to prosecute adult border-crossers, even when they have kids. That's a choice — one fundamentally different from the choice made by both Obama and previous presidents of both parties." 

I'm again sorry that these facts continue to ruin your life and suck away your compassion for children and babies.  :'(
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