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Author Topic: Why seven different digibacks by PhaseOne  (Read 791 times)

spassig

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Why seven different digibacks by PhaseOne
« on: June 11, 2018, 01:19:50 AM »

Hello

I see in a brochure that PO offer seven different digibacks.

IQ1 two digibacks.
IQ1 100 MP
IQ1   50 MP

IQ3 five digibacks.
IQ3 100 MP Trichromatic
IQ3 100 MP
IQ3 100 MP Achromatic
IQ3   80 MP
IQ3   50 MP

I know the reason by Achromatic.

What's the reason for the other?

Jochen
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Why seven different digibacks by PhaseOne
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2018, 03:00:41 AM »

My view:
- IQ1 are cheaper version from which some functions were removed to lower the price point to remain competitive with Hasselblad without madening too much existing IQ3 customers
- the 100mp versions are based on the true MF 54x41mm sensor
- the 50mp versions are using the same small MF 33x44mm sensor found in the X1D and GFX
- the IQ3 80 is an older CCD back
- the trichromatic version uses an improved color filter

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: June 11, 2018, 05:24:23 AM by BernardLanguillier »
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spassig

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Re: Why seven different digibacks by PhaseOne
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2018, 04:50:41 AM »

My view:
- IQ1 are cheaper version from which some functions were removed to lower the price point to remain competitive with Hasselblad without madening too much existing IQ3 customers
- the 100mp versions are based on the true MF 54x41mm sensor
- the 50mp versions are using the same small MF 33x44mm sensor found in the X1D and GFX
- the trichromatic version uses an improved color filter

Cheers,
Bernard

@Bernhard
Thanks for quick feedback.
Currently I use a Hasselblad 503CW with PO digiback P45.
In the last week I took same landscape pictures with my own Sony A7II and borrow Fuji GFX50S.
At moment I compare the pictures.
If I would buy a new camera (Fuji or PO) I will know the history of PO digibacks.
„Hmm. Must I buy a new camera?“ ;)

Jochen


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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Why seven different digibacks by PhaseOne
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2018, 05:22:54 AM »

No idea whether you "need" a new camera... ;)

I find the image quality of the 100mp backs (I own a H6D-100c but it is very similar) to be outstanding.

Frankly speaking, I would wait until September because odds are you are going to be able to buy an X2D/GFX 100s for a lot less than the current 100mp large MF backs.

One question is whether 24x26/33x44/36x48/41x54 make a difference and where MF really starts... ;)

There is a real difference of look btwn 24x36 and 41x54, that I know but I personnally find that the gap btwn 24x36 and 33x44 is too small to justify the huge difference of price and the significant loss of capability. But that's just me.

Cheers,
Bernard

spassig

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Re: Why seven different digibacks by PhaseOne
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2018, 10:49:14 AM »

Frankly speaking, I would wait until September because odds are you are going to be able to buy an X2D/GFX 100s for a lot less than the current 100mp large MF backs.
Cheers,
Bernard
September = Photokina 2018 Cologne or other reason?

Now I start comparing the RAW pictures from 503CW+P45/ Sony A7II/ Fuji GFX50S with wide-angle-lens and tele-lens.
All with f8, f11, f16.
All with good same distance settings.
All pictures with tripoid.
I use Adobe Raw Converter > Automatic and Photoshop CC without additional settings.
I use 100 % view.
I see disparities but what is the best?
I mean that 503CW+P45 is very good.

Jochen
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Why seven different digibacks by PhaseOne
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2018, 12:16:51 PM »

Now I start comparing the RAW pictures from 503CW+P45/ Sony A7II/ Fuji GFX50S with wide-angle-lens and tele-lens.
All with f8, f11, f16.
All with good same distance settings.
All pictures with tripoid.
I use Adobe Raw Converter > Automatic and Photoshop CC without additional settings.
I use 100 % view.
I see disparities but what is the best?
I mean that 503CW+P45 is very good.

The P45+ is from 2007 based on a sensor from 2005.

In my (highly biased) opinion, the fact that you find it compares well for your needs to the current GFX is a testament to the longevity and image quality provided by investing in Phase One, and a strong argument to stay in the Phase One family.

Moreover, if you redid that comparison in Capture One instead of Adobe Camera Raw you will likely find the 45+ even stronger. There's a lot to be said for using software made specifically for the hardware you're using, especially for more subtle things like tonal smoothness and color rendering.

Joe Towner

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Re: Why seven different digibacks by PhaseOne
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2018, 10:59:21 PM »

Yes, it becomes a bit soupy when trying to make sense of the model numbers, especially since some of them are relative to the mount.  What are you looking to accomplish and how do you currently shoot with your P45?  Are you hitting any limitations?

Since you're use to working with a CCD, you have the ability to stick in that space with the 60mp & 80mp backs that can be had at a discount. The 50mp CMOS is great, but the sensor is smaller than what you're use to (as seen in the GFX) so your focal lengths aren't quite the same.

The best one is the best for your application.  The IQ series backs is much faster than the P backs, plus with the higher resolution of either the 60mp or 80mp, you're getting a bigger file than from the 50mp CMOS chip.  If you're looking for higher ISO performance, the 50mp CMOS is a better fit.
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jng

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Re: Why seven different digibacks by PhaseOne
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2018, 12:19:12 AM »

Up until recently I was using the 60 Mp CCD IQ160 on my V system Hasselblad (I've recently migrated it to a tech cam). It's a great combination if (and it's a big "if") you can focus the bloody contraption. Let's just say that the higher resolution sensors are not at all forgiving of anything but perfect focus, which is a function of both the photographer and the focusing path being in proper alignment. I am not surprised that you like the rendering on the P45 - perhaps this is a combination of the larger format and old Zeiss lenses.

Advantages of staying with a V-mount full frame (i.e., 40x54) Phase back are that they can give stunning image quality, can be found relatively cheap on the used market, and allow you to use Capture One for RAW developing and post-processing. But the more modern CMOS backs and X1D/GFX are certainly easier to work with in the field. I recently started using the X1D to complement the IQ160. It's great for certain applications (e.g., low light/high ISO) and shows the legendary Hassy colors, but I still prefer the look of the IQ160 images.

John
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 12:22:23 AM by jng »
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spassig

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Re: Why seven different digibacks by PhaseOne
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2018, 07:49:05 AM »

@all

Thanks for helpfully feedback.
In the past I don't compare different RAWs from different camera systems.
Now I will compare this.
Is there a reference available in which way I should analyse the quality of the three systems?
Looking quality in shadows?
Looking quality in lights?
Some other analysing?

I have all three different RAW formats open in PS CC.
Is it sensefull to convert the RAWs from Sony A7II and Fuji GFX 50S (maybe the PO format) in DNG?
Than I can open the Sony A7II and Fuji GFX 50S RAWs (maybe the PO format) in Capture One.

(Discussion this I should generate a new topic?)

Jochen
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douglevy

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Re: Why seven different digibacks by PhaseOne
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2018, 11:21:18 AM »

Analyze them in how they fit into how you shoot and light, and work, and what your clients need and what you deliver. You can read internet boards all day, but the real value is if/how it fits for you.

spassig

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Re: Why seven different digibacks by PhaseOne
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2018, 11:45:41 AM »

Hello

I have post a new topic for discussion for analyse the quality of different RAWs

http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=125294.0

Jochen
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