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Author Topic: How does a color viewing station fit into digital workflow?  (Read 1909 times)

deliberate1

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Friends, I am contemplating the purchase of a GTI viewing station but am still a bit unclear what it does other than show the image under a specific light color (5000).
I feel that this is the weakest part of my workflow. I have an NEC color monitor that I calibrate every couple of weeks. I work up images in PS and LR and then print with an Epson 7800, with whatever paper profile seems to work best. After the print is born, I find myself running around my studio looking at the print in different light to get a sense of what it "really" looks like. I will go to the window for natural light, or hold it up to incandescent bulbs just to illuminate it. It all seems rather silly and unprofessional given all the effort I go to to make the image right on the screen.
So going to a viewing booth (tabletop, like GTI PDV3ex) seems a grown up alternative to my work flow. So my question is how those of you who use one of these incorporate them into your PP. I spoke with a very nice fellow at GTI who suggested getting the model with a dimmer in order to match, to the extent possible, the same lumens of the monitor.Seems to make sense. But then lots of things I do not understand make sense.
Thanks for any advice.
David
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digitaldog

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Re: How does a color viewing station fit into digital workflow?
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2018, 09:57:32 pm »

Got a GTI Soft View, with dimmer, it's great but keep in mind it uses Fluorescent bulbs which have spiky spectrum which is far from ideal IF your papers contain OBAs. But I use it because I often work with others in print/prepress that use the same booth, so we are viewing the same thing, on the same page visually which is useful. And most prepress output contains little if any OBAs.
The spectrum of Solux is about the best option available but they run hot, are not energy efficient. But you can build a very nice viewing booth, even a very, very large one based on the suggestions of Joe Holmes in this article side bar:


http://digitaldog.net/files/16TheRightLightpart2.pdf
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deliberate1

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Re: How does a color viewing station fit into digital workflow?
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2018, 10:58:38 am »

Andy, thanks for yours. I am obliged for the technical info. But my question goes more to the actual utility of a viewing station and how it is used to assess a print and then effectuate changes in PP. Your thoughts?
David
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digitaldog

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Re: How does a color viewing station fit into digital workflow?
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2018, 11:56:08 am »

Andy, thanks for yours. I am obliged for the technical info. But my question goes more to the actual utility of a viewing station and how it is used to assess a print and then effectuate changes in PP. Your thoughts?
David


Thoughts:


http://digitaldog.net/files/15TheRightLightpart1.pdf
http://digitaldog.net/files/16TheRightLightpart2.pdf
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deliberate1

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Re: How does a color viewing station fit into digital workflow?
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2018, 02:01:37 pm »

Very interesting reading. Thanks, Andy.
David
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vjbelle

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Re: How does a color viewing station fit into digital workflow?
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2018, 03:56:15 pm »

Although the lighting source can be nit picked (not a criticism) my GTI viewing station helps me out considerably and I would not be without it.  I have an EVS which accommodates a fairly large image which is what I need.  My usual printing is 40 to 48 inches on the long side and printing to that size only to find out that an adjustment has to be made can become time consuming and a waste of resources.  I print a 'proof' which is 30 inches wide by whatever height for hanging in the viewing station which allows me to make whatever adjustments necessary for the final print.  I am, of course, very color calibrated including making my own printing profiles but I have found that all of that calibration gets me close but not close enough so best to make a smaller proof. 

Hope this helps......

Victor
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PeterAit

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Re: How does a color viewing station fit into digital workflow?
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2018, 11:04:33 am »

Friends, I am contemplating the purchase of a GTI viewing station but am still a bit unclear what it does other than show the image under a specific light color (5000).
I feel that this is the weakest part of my workflow. I have an NEC color monitor that I calibrate every couple of weeks. I work up images in PS and LR and then print with an Epson 7800, with whatever paper profile seems to work best. After the print is born, I find myself running around my studio looking at the print in different light to get a sense of what it "really" looks like. I will go to the window for natural light, or hold it up to incandescent bulbs just to illuminate it. It all seems rather silly and unprofessional given all the effort I go to to make the image right on the screen.
So going to a viewing booth (tabletop, like GTI PDV3ex) seems a grown up alternative to my work flow. So my question is how those of you who use one of these incorporate them into your PP. I spoke with a very nice fellow at GTI who suggested getting the model with a dimmer in order to match, to the extent possible, the same lumens of the monitor.Seems to make sense. But then lots of things I do not understand make sense.
Thanks for any advice.
David

IMO opinion these viewing stations are a huge rip-off for most photographers. Think about how your prints are going to be viewed - in a gallery, a purchaser's home, your own home, at a mall, a restaurant - wherever. You will not likely have any control over the lighting. Daylight? Incandescent? Fluorescent? So fussing endlessly over color balance is pointless. There is no "perfect." You current approach of looking at your prints under a variety of lighting conditions is, I think, a good one.
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digitaldog

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Re: How does a color viewing station fit into digital workflow?
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2018, 11:39:05 am »

IMO opinion these viewing stations are a huge rip-off for most photographers.
-1! How do you expect some of us photographers to soft proof our images and then know, what we see is what we got? Case in point:





How did photographers prior to digital imaging do the same (as you ask  "how your prints are going to be viewed")? For those of us printing in the darkroom, we placed our prints in a similar setup. But the bigger issue was, there was no display used to edit our images. It's an intermediary device but critical to how we edit our images. Or do you disagree that display calibration is important? Calibration that provides a visual match NEXT to the display?


If that print appears fine under such conditions, as long as you view the print, away from this condition using ANY lighting that is 'appropriate' for print viewing, your eye adapts to the new illuminant, as it has for tens of thousands of years artists have produced work in one location and viewers examined the print elsewhere. A 5 watt nightlight bulb or a 10K watt lamp isn't appropriate; don't use them!


But again, the major difference between what some of us do digitally and what those artists have done analog without an intermediary device (display) is edit on that display, make a print and hope the print is as we desire based on what we see on that display! Hence we need both color management (number management) and a way to view the analog print next to the digital representation of it, such we don't have to make print after print until we are happy. And even if we do make print after print until we're happy, it's still a very good idea to view that print appropriately; using a well defined and behaved illuminant that is consistent, that we can turn on and off and that we can place next to our display such we know we've got a visual match between the display and print; little to zero surprises on that first print.


IF you get paid by the hour, or print, or if you don't have to pay for paper and ink, you do not need color management or a sound print viewing condition for image editing that will result in a print.
Rip off, no. Not if your goal is WYSIWYG in a digital darkroom setup.
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deliberate1

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Re: How does a color viewing station fit into digital workflow?
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2018, 12:00:50 pm »

IMO opinion these viewing stations are a huge rip-off for most photographers. Think about how your prints are going to be viewed - in a gallery, a purchaser's home, your own home, at a mall, a restaurant - wherever. You will not likely have any control over the lighting. Daylight? Incandescent? Fluorescent? So fussing endlessly over color balance is pointless. There is no "perfect." You current approach of looking at your prints under a variety of lighting conditions is, I think, a good one.

Peter, OP here. 
I take  your point, as well as Andy's response. You reveal the unavoidable truth that once a print leaves the nest it will look however it will look dependent on the viewing environment. No print in the wild will look exactly as it does in the studio, except if illuminated by identical lighting which is most unlikely. Consequently, to the extent the use of a viewing station is to assess and manage the way a print will look in the happy owner's space is a fool's errand.
My intention for such a device is more pedestrian. I want to get the final print to look like the "ideal" interpretation I have created on the screen. Given the differences in universes between an electronic image on a back lit screen and tangible one on paper, variations between the two are inevitable no matter the attentiveness of the workflow, with calibration, profiles and the like. My "end use" for a device like a viewing booth is nothing more than an effort to make the image look as close to the one on the screen as possible.  All in my universe. Once it goes out the door, all bets are off, just as you point out. Ultimately, I just want to be happy with the image that I send out into the world. What it looks like on someone's wall is out of my hands.
As I explored the options, I have moved away from the GTI viewing booth. The one I was considering had a  limited viewing dimension which would not accommodate my larger prints.  Also, I have read that florescent light can reflect poorly on paper with OBA's. And then, there is the cost. In its stead, I am looking at a four bank Solux light system that is not boxed in [https://www.solux.net/cgi-bin/tlistore/DCP47X4BK.html]. At about $270, it is a fraction of the GTI box that I was looking at. And my reading suggests that this light quality is not reactive like its florescent counterpart. And, if I am feeling kind of bummed in the depths of a Maine winter, I could just sit under this "happy light" for a while. But I do not want to mount the array on the ceiling, as intended. Rather, I would prefer to mount it on a portable light stand so that I can put the print on the wall, right next to my monitor, and then shine the array "horizontally" at it. I can also move the lights closer or further away, as it suits me. This approach may give me a truer impression of the print vs the light mounted 9 feet away shining down on the print on a flat surface, with the impact of ambient light different than that which influences the screen shot.  I would appreciate any suggestions for a light stand that could accommodate this concept. Or well-intentioned critiques that show me the folly of my thinking.
Obliged for all your contributions.
David
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digitaldog

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Re: How does a color viewing station fit into digital workflow?
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2018, 12:18:45 pm »

Peter, OP here. 
I take  your point, as well as Andy's response. You reveal the unavoidable truth that once a print leaves the nest it will look however it will look dependent on the viewing environment. No print in the wild will look exactly as it does in the studio, except if illuminated by identical lighting which is most unlikely.
Our eye adapt to the illuminant thankfully. Take two very different papers. View them side by side you see them as looking differently. View one at a time after adaptation, each looks white on it's own, under virtually any illuminant.
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I want to get the final print to look like the "ideal" interpretation I have created on the screen.
Exactly! And the viewing booth will allow this. The good attribute of the GTI is the digital dimmer which doesn't affect it's color. Not the case with say a Solux. And if you're working with others using the same booth remotely, you can set them identically. Again, my only beef with these booth's is the Fluorescent bulbs which have a spiky spectrum and can be problematic with some papers. Not an issue with Solux, they are lovely but not easy to control. IF you do go Solux, skip the CCT 5500 bulbs; they are the same as the better CCT 4700K's but driven higher and thus will burn out faster for no gain.
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deliberate1

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Re: How does a color viewing station fit into digital workflow?
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2018, 12:48:21 pm »

Our eye adapt to the illuminant thankfully. Take two very different papers. View them side by side you see them as looking differently. View one at a time after adaptation, each looks white on it's own, under virtually any illuminant. Exactly! And the viewing booth will allow this. The good attribute of the GTI is the digital dimmer which doesn't affect it's color. Not the case with say a Solux. And if you're working with others using the same booth remotely, you can set them identically. Again, my only beef with these booth's is the Fluorescent bulbs which have a spiky spectrum and can be problematic with some papers. Not an issue with Solux, they are lovely but not easy to control. IF you do go Solux, skip the CCT 5500 bulbs; they are the same as the better CCT 4700K's but driven higher and thus will burn out faster for no gain.

Andy, would you be kind enough to school me on the dimmer issue. The GTI booth I'm looking at does have the dimmer option. I understand that you can adjust the illumination to match your screen.
Personally, I tend to boost the exposure in my images by about half a stop before printing to compensate for the "back lit" factor. And, usually, that works out rather well. So how would having a booth illumination that matches my screen illumination change my workflow in that respect.
As you point out, the Solux rig cannot be adjusted in this way. Indeed, the effect of the light thrown by the bulbs would be determined by its proximity to the image. With the GTI box, it is a controlled environment, and I presume that the intensity of the light from the bulbs has been calculated to reflect the distance to the image. With a Solux rig mounted on a tripod, the potential advantage, or disadvantage, is its mobility. Simply put, I presume the print would look "lighter" as the lights moves closer, and vice versa. If I knew the image, in its new home, would be illuminated by a light source 9 feet away, I suppose I could move the light array in my studio 9 feet away and then adjust the print to taste. In any event, how is the absence of a dimmer function a disadvantage? Simply put, I print the image. I put it on the wall by my monitor. I shine the lights on it, perhaps from 9 feet away. If it appears dark, I add exposure globally or to those parts of the image, perhaps in the shadows, that need it, or even dial down the highlights and midtones to taste. Would I not be doing the same thing with a GTI light box?
As always, obliged.
David
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 01:09:18 pm by deliberate1 »
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digitaldog

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Re: How does a color viewing station fit into digital workflow?
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2018, 01:18:28 pm »

Andy, would you be kind enough to school me on the dimmer issue. The GTI booth I'm looking at does have the dimmer option.
Well it dims the light <g> using a digital readout. The reason it's useful is when trying to get a print to match the display, it's useful to have both the viewing booth and the display backlight intensity under control. You can do this with the GTI booth. You can't dim the Solux as the color changes. You can move them of course. And again, if you're working with others using the same product, you can both dial in the identical settings for the both so they match.
This video might help (it discusses adjusting one or both items):



Why are my prints too dark?
A video update to a written piece on subject from 2013
In this 24 minute video, I'll cover:

Are your prints really too dark?
Display calibration and WYSIWYG
Proper print viewing conditions
Trouble shooting to get a match
Avoiding kludges that don't solve the problem

High resolution: http://digitaldog.net/files/Why_are_my_prints_too_dark.mp4
Low resolution: https://youtu.be/iS6sjZmxjY4
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deliberate1

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Re: How does a color viewing station fit into digital workflow?
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2018, 01:42:49 pm »

Cheers, Andy.
David
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PeterAit

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Re: How does a color viewing station fit into digital workflow?
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2018, 04:59:40 pm »

-1! How do you expect some of us photographers to soft proof our images and then know, what we see is what we got? Case in point:


I am not suggesting no color management or no controlled viewing. I use both - but not a booth, which strikes me as the pointless fuss-budgetry that some photographers seem so enamored of. I have a cork board on my studio wall, illuminated by a couple of Solux lamps. I can turn off the office lights, pull the shade, and pin a print there. I can look at the monitor and then turn 90 degrees and at the print. Works great - and is cheap.
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digitaldog

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Re: How does a color viewing station fit into digital workflow?
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2018, 05:20:54 pm »

I am not suggesting no color management or no controlled viewing. I use both - but not a booth, which strikes me as the pointless fuss-budgetry that some photographers seem so enamored of.
You're saying that based on experience using one based on the reasons outlined why such viewing booths are useful?
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Schewe

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Re: How does a color viewing station fit into digital workflow?
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2018, 01:11:51 am »

I use both - but not a booth, which strikes me as the pointless fuss-budgetry that some photographers seem so enamored of.

So...if somebody else NOT located in YOUR work environment wants to see what YOU are seeing in YOUR environment, how do you propose that person evaluate images in THIER environment? Buy a cork board and hang some Solux bulbs some unspecified distance away?

That's the whole purpose of a viewing standard...so multiple people in multiple places can all see things under the same evaluation environment.

Heck, why bother calibrating and profiling your display? You can tweak you display to match your prints when they are tacked to your cork board can't you? Why bother dealing with any standards?

But hey, you are welcome to do what you want...(not for nothing but I couldn't evaluate my prints against the color of a cork board...I would paint that a neutral color...ideally to match avoid having your color perception distorted by the surround color, but hey, that's just me).
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Doug Gray

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Re: How does a color viewing station fit into digital workflow?
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2018, 01:44:51 am »

I look at a hard proofing station as simply a crosscheck that nothing's gone hinky with my printer, monitor, and profiling equipment. I fully expect my monitor soft proofs to match my prints viewed properly and it's been quite a long time since they did not. It's good to have crosschecks and it's good to know what someone else will see looking at a print with a specified setup.
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