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Author Topic: Best Travel Camera for under $2,000 US  (Read 1750 times)

Ray

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Re: Best Travel Camera for under $2,000 US
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2018, 02:25:17 AM »

Sony Rx10 IV hands down the best on the market.
My wife stopped using her dslr when I purchased this camera for her.
Not the lightest but if you need a camera with wide as well as telephoto it just cannot be beat.
No changing lenses, no sensor dust issues and no need to buy multiple lenses.
The 24 frames per second is to die for.

Sounds impressive! However, I'm still trying to find some comparison images from the RX10 IV at '600mm equivalence' and the Nikkor 80-400 at '600mm equivalence' using a D7200, or similar Nikon DSLR.

When one sacrifices image quality for convenience (or more features), one needs to know (or at least I need to know) the significance and magnitude of that loss of image quality, in order to make an informed decision as to whether or not the extra convenience is of greater benefit than the loss of the image quality that one is used to.

For example, if the 24mp D7200 image at 400mm were cropped to 12mp, and had a similar image quality in terms of noise and resolution to the 20mp RX10 IV at its maximum focal length, one would be comparing 900mm equivalence with 600 mm equivalence. Which would you prefer?
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: Best Travel Camera for under $2,000 US
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2018, 05:57:37 AM »

Well, you need to prioritise, because nowadays there is really no "bad" system, especially for travel; starting at 1 inch sensor cameras, some already referred to here.

A few ideas:

1. FF - do you really need a zoom? Do you really need a single zoom up to 300mm? I reckon your existing camera with a 24-70 f4 or 24-105 f4 lens is really not that cumbersome?

2. FF - well, if the above is not suitable to you, I am afraid that a FF MILC with a big zoom will not make a big difference in terms of weight and size.

3. APSC - plenty of choices from Fuji, Sony, and Canon. If you are used to Canon menus, then the M series is the obvious choice, with a 18.135 zoom or similar.

Personally, these days I travel with a Pen F and 25 Pro lens, wonderful combination. I know it does not fit your criteria, but m43 sensors have come a long way.

gkroeger

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Re: Best Travel Camera for under $2,000 US
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2018, 03:28:38 PM »

I second the Fuji X-E3 with 18-55... got that for my daughter traveling abroad and her results were great... full auto when you don't want to think, and full control when you do.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Best Travel Camera for under $2,000 US
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2018, 03:55:49 PM »

Sounds impressive! However, I'm still trying to find some comparison images from the RX10 IV at '600mm equivalence' and the Nikkor 80-400 at '600mm equivalence' using a D7200, or similar Nikon DSLR.

When one sacrifices image quality for convenience (or more features), one needs to know (or at least I need to know) the significance and magnitude of that loss of image quality, in order to make an informed decision as to whether or not the extra convenience is of greater benefit than the loss of the image quality that one is used to.

For example, if the 24mp D7200 image at 400mm were cropped to 12mp, and had a similar image quality in terms of noise and resolution to the 20mp RX10 IV at its maximum focal length, one would be comparing 900mm equivalence with 600 mm equivalence. Which would you prefer?
Ray not exactly what you're looking for, but there are some good comparisons with other bridge cameras and comments about the lens here.
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-cyber-shot-dsc-rx10-iv/8

armand

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Re: Best Travel Camera for under $2,000 US
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2018, 12:16:09 PM »

The problem is that Sony has no significant competition so they can set their prices to the highest somebody would be willing to pay for it.
Right now with some sales both the Olympus E-M1ii and the Nikon D750 are significantly cheaper. If you already have some lenses the only advantage of Sony is at the long end, after 200mm. If you don't need that it becomes more difficult to justify it.

For example, I already have the 12-100 F4 from Olympus. Similar DOF at the wide end, slightly better at the long end. If I don't absolutely need the above 200mm range, should I get the E-M1ii or the Sony? The Oly has the potential for better IQ sensor wise and is more rugged, the Sony has the lens range. For travel the sharpness is probably good but for landscapes, in corners, I suspect the Oly is quite better.


PS. I would take the no dust with a grain of salt. I had at least couple of P&S zooms that were ruined because dust made its way into the sensor and as opposed to the interchangeable lenses systems you cannot get it out.

digitaldog

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Re: Best Travel Camera for under $2,000 US
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2018, 12:25:37 PM »

The problem is that Sony has no significant competition so they can set their prices to the highest somebody would be willing to pay for it.
We're willing to pay for it, so what?
Quote
PS. I would take the no dust with a grain of salt.
Well my new camera is sealed a bit, the lens can't come off etc. I had all kinds of dust issues with the Canon (ever shoot in White Sands?). Time will tell if the Sony does or doesn't produce dust on the sensor but that time will be a result of actual experience with a specific model, not an assumption about all such cameras in all conditions!
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Andrew Rodney
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Alan Klein

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Re: Best Travel Camera for under $2,000 US
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2018, 03:58:13 PM »

I used by RX100M4 on a cruise to the Caribbean and on a road trip through the southwest visiting all the national parks in the high desert.  I don't see any dust on my pictures.  I also carry it in my pocket which usually has tissues in there and no particles from those either.  It could be that the senor compartment is pretty sealed even if the whole camera is not considered weather sealed.  Maybe someone has information on this.

armand

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Re: Best Travel Camera for under $2,000 US
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2018, 04:24:58 PM »

We're willing to pay for it, so what? Well my new camera is sealed a bit, the lens can't come off etc. I had all kinds of dust issues with the Canon (ever shoot in White Sands?). Time will tell if the Sony does or doesn't produce dust on the sensor but that time will be a result of actual experience with a specific model, not an assumption about all such cameras in all conditions!

Didn't sleep well last night?
This has nothing to with ability or willingness to pay but with the fact that Sony has no competition and can charge as much as they could get away with. It's not the best position for consumer.

I don't expect Sony to produce dust on the sensor but the lens cannot be fully sealed (you won't be able to zoom otherwise) and maybe I'm less lucky than you but I got 2 cameras ruined by it, a Canon S90 and a Sony HV100 or something looks that. IF that happens it's a much bigger problem than on a mirroless.

I might still buy one to see if it really is the best thing since sliced bread, after all I got decent pictures from their consumer superzoom but forgive me if I doubt it can be a replacement for a larger sensor system.

armand

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Re: Best Travel Camera for under $2,000 US
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2018, 04:28:33 PM »

I used by RX100M4 on a cruise to the Caribbean and on a road trip through the southwest visiting all the national parks in the high desert.  I don't see any dust on my pictures.  I also carry it in my pocket which usually has tissues in there and no particles from those either.  It could be that the senor compartment is pretty sealed even if the whole camera is not considered weather sealed.  Maybe someone has information on this.

It's probably more resistant to dust than others who are not weather resistant.
I might be luckier with this one as I cannot keep it my pocket (without a case) which was probably the source of the dust for my deceased ones. The first generation Sony RX100 had the same treatment and is holding well though.

digitaldog

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Re: Best Travel Camera for under $2,000 US
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2018, 04:47:07 PM »

Didn't sleep well last night?
Slept fine, I consider your comment silly, that's all. Here's why:
The product has a price. It was well worth the price so I purchased it. I'm very happy with the purchase. Maybe you don't wish to do the same; fine. IF everyone felt as you did, no one would buy the product. Lots of people do buy that product including myself; we don't agree on the price to benefit ratio, something all of us have to consider for ALL purchases.
As for your comment on dust, it's simply a generalization of yours, without any supported data. When you have some, do provide it. Otherwise:
All generalizations are false, including this one.-Mark Twain

Quote
I don't expect Sony to produce dust on the sensor but the lens cannot be fully sealed (you won't be able to zoom otherwise) and maybe I'm less lucky than you but I got 2 cameras ruined by it, a Canon S90 and a Sony HV100 or something looks that. IF that happens it's a much bigger problem than on a mirroless.
What you expect, and what's the reality are two entirely different items!
Quote
I doubt it can be a replacement for a larger sensor system.
Perhaps for you. For me, it easily was an excellent replacement; I came from a Canon 5DMII.
Unless you've experienced it, you've only imagined it. Your writings about this Sony camera appear to be largely imagined but again, if you have actual data to back up your ideas of the product, please provide them.
Until then, sleep well!  :D
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Andrew Rodney
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Ray

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Re: Best Travel Camera for under $2,000 US
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2018, 05:53:21 PM »

Ray not exactly what you're looking for, but there are some good comparisons with other bridge cameras and comments about the lens here.
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-cyber-shot-dsc-rx10-iv/8

Thanks for the link, Alan. There are a number of glowing reviews of the RX10 Mk4, and I would definitely buy this camera if I hadn't already had a 'less than satisfactory' experience with the Panasonic FZ200 a few years ago.

The FZ200 had a Leica super zoom, equivalent to 25-600mm, with a constant maximum aperture of F2.8 across the entire range. I had hoped that image quality would be close to that of my Canon 100-400 at maximum zoom, because I would be using F2.8 instead of F5.6 and therefore a lower ISO when photographing wildlife, which would tend to compensate for the higher noise of the smaller sensor.

However, I was disappointed with the resolution. Perhaps that's because I'm in the habit of pixel-peeping my images at 100% on a high-resolution monitor. I eventually sold the camera to a neighbour who was not so fussy about resolution.  ;)

The Sony RX10 Mk4 appears to be a big step up from the Panasonic FZ200. The sensor is larger and the focusing more accurate, to mention just a couple of improvements. If I were still using my Canon 100-400 with the 15mp 50D APS-C, I might find the image quality of Sony RX10 satisfactory. However, I'm now using 24mp Nikon DX cameras with the full-frame Nikkor 80-400 zoom, and the lightweight Nikkor 18-140 zoom for wider angle shots, so I'm a bit concerned I might be once again disappointed if I buy the RX10 Mk4.

I'm really surprised I can't find any direct comparisons between the Sony RX10 at 600mm and the Canon and Nikon 600mm equivalents from their very popular 100-400 or 80-400 zooms.
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davidlederman

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Re: Best Travel Camera for under $2,000 US
« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2018, 08:36:34 PM »

Thank you one and all for your responses. I was, unfortunately, unable to get back online until now (computer in shop getting a 2TB SSD internal HD, which BTW cut file copying time by 75%).

To answer some of the questions as to use. All my photography is for me -  a very serious amateur. I either post photos online for myself, family and friends (see https://www.davidledermanphotography.com/), print them at typically 16 x 20 to hang in my house or give to friends , or create Blurb books  for myself or to give as gifts to people who have us stay with them. Typically I do landscapes and street photography. I have to confess to being a pixel peeper - everything I either print or post has been viewed at 100% and sharpened accordingly. So I am not going to compromise quality if I can help it. I was hoping that a $2,000 budget would allow for quality and flexibility at a reasonable weight in a small camera.

As I stated in my initial post, a few years ago I tried the Sony NEX7 with the more expensive lenses. I really liked the quality of the images and the camera's size and weight. I  hated the ergonomics and the menu system. There were so many times that I moved buttons and dials by mistake that it became a real negative to use. No matter what anyone says, the menus are a real trial. Have they improved? I am willing to take a look at the newer Sonys for size and weight. If the dials and buttons are still like they used to  be and the menus are the same level of density, then it's probably a nonstarter.

In any case the main trip I want the lightweight option for starts end of November, so we'll see if anything pops up before then. If not, I'll probably take the 5D MK 4 and two lenses - my 16-35 and an old 28-105. While I love the image quality on my 70-200 I just don't take that many medium telephoto shots.

I'd love to see a compact with a 20-200 high quality lens, full frame sensor,really light weight, excellent ergonomics and easy to use menu. I'd be willing to pay up for that.

Thanks again.
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capital

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Re: Best Travel Camera for under $2,000 US
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2018, 09:48:41 PM »

Looking at your requirements, the Canon EOS Rebel SL2 DSLR Camera with 18-55mm and 55-250mm Lenses Kit, retailing for about $750USD, weighs a tenth of your current kit, coming in at ~1kg, and will provide ample image quality for your trip, and has a fully articulating touch screen, which is perfect for street photography and odd angle shots. You can also substitute the kit 18-55 with the  Canon EF-S 10-18mm f/4.5-5.6 IS STM Lens for a wider option without being penalized by weight if you absolutely can't do without focal lengths lower than 28.

A camera purchase is typically not a purely rational decision and is highly personal, so I don't expect anyone will be able provide the answer to your question.



Thank you one and all for your responses. I was, unfortunately, unable to get back online until now (computer in shop getting a 2TB SSD internal HD, which BTW cut file copying time by 75%).

To answer some of the questions as to use. All my photography is for me -  a very serious amateur. I either post photos online for myself, family and friends (see https://www.davidledermanphotography.com/), print them at typically 16 x 20 to hang in my house or give to friends , or create Blurb books  for myself or to give as gifts to people who have us stay with them. Typically I do landscapes and street photography. I have to confess to being a pixel peeper - everything I either print or post has been viewed at 100% and sharpened accordingly. So I am not going to compromise quality if I can help it. I was hoping that a $2,000 budget would allow for quality and flexibility at a reasonable weight in a small camera.

As I stated in my initial post, a few years ago I tried the Sony NEX7 with the more expensive lenses. I really liked the quality of the images and the camera's size and weight. I  hated the ergonomics and the menu system. There were so many times that I moved buttons and dials by mistake that it became a real negative to use. No matter what anyone says, the menus are a real trial. Have they improved? I am willing to take a look at the newer Sonys for size and weight. If the dials and buttons are still like they used to  be and the menus are the same level of density, then it's probably a nonstarter.

In any case the main trip I want the lightweight option for starts end of November, so we'll see if anything pops up before then. If not, I'll probably take the 5D MK 4 and two lenses - my 16-35 and an old 28-105. While I love the image quality on my 70-200 I just don't take that many medium telephoto shots.

I'd love to see a compact with a 20-200 high quality lens, full frame sensor,really light weight, excellent ergonomics and easy to use menu. I'd be willing to pay up for that.

Thanks again.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 09:57:56 PM by capital »
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armand

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Re: Best Travel Camera for under $2,000 US
« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2018, 11:44:57 PM »

Slept fine, I consider your comment silly, that's all. Here's why:
....

I'm not sure why I got you riled up so much, don't worry I will not contradict you again and your opinion based on data of 1. I wasn't aware that I have to buy a camera to be allowed to have an opinion about it (keeping in mind I do have several Sony products, including an RX100, and a somehow similar product, the Pana FZ1000). FYI, I wasn't stating that you are wrong but that based on the design it is possible and I would like to give a little more time before I say that it so much better.

Btw, if you really want to make some derogatory comments double check what you are writing.
When you quote this: "I don't expect Sony to produce dust on the sensor"
to say this "What you expect, and what's the reality are two entirely different items!"
one might foolishly assume that you say the Sony sensor produces dust and we don't want that.

Peace to you, as I stated above I might get it and who knows, I'll become a believer.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 11:48:27 PM by armand »
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digitaldog

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Re: Best Travel Camera for under $2,000 US
« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2018, 10:11:46 AM »

I'm not sure why I got you riled up so much, don't worry I will not contradict you again and your opinion based on data of 1.
I'm not sure why you think I'm riled up. You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts
Quote
I wasn't aware that I have to buy a camera to be allowed to have an opinion about it
You don't have to BUY it. You have to have used it and have experience and/or data to back up your statements about it. Have you done so with respect to dust inside a Sony RX10 IV?
Quote
I do have several Sony products, including an RX100, and a somehow similar product, the Pana FZ1000).
So you're telling us no, you don't have experience or data about the camera I was talking about with respect to dust on the sensor.
Quote
I do have several Sony products, including an RX100, and a somehow similar product, the Pana FZ1000).
Again: unless you've experienced it, you've only imagined it. When you have actual experience, tell us. I have experience albeit limited (a month of use) with the camera I was happy to purchase and didn't feel was a ripoff (too expensive due to no competition as you suggest), no dust on images as yet. That's an ongoing opinion based on the facts of usage of a RX10 IV.  Time will tell if THIS Sony does or doesn't end up with dust on the sensor but that time will be a result of actual experience with a specific model, not an assumption about all such cameras in all conditions!
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 10:28:50 AM by andrewrodney »
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Andrew Rodney
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David Good

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Re: Best Travel Camera for under $2,000 US
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2018, 02:05:03 PM »

David,
Sony's A7xx series of bodies may be what you are looking for if you don't mind still changing lenses (not that you have to). I migrated from a 5DII with heavy L's and, after familiarizing myself with the menu items, don't miss the old Canon at all. I shoot the A7M2 with several primes but there are now plenty of zoom lens choices as well as you likely know. The point is the image quality is very good, and the range of lenses from the FE to the G series will satisfy your weight requirements along with all the third party options available.
Dave
 
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KLaban

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Re: Best Travel Camera for under $2,000 US
« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2018, 02:07:44 PM »

Doesn't meet your criteria, however I'd opt for an antiquated Leica M8 with a battered Leica or Zeiss 50mm lens on the front.
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petermfiore

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Re: Best Travel Camera for under $2,000 US
« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2018, 02:26:45 PM »

I currently on the road in Newfoundland. With me is my Sony 10MK IV. This trip was the reason I bought the Sony. Light and
a Lens to die for...

Peter

armand

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Re: Best Travel Camera for under $2,000 US
« Reply #38 on: June 14, 2018, 10:52:34 AM »

I currently on the road in Newfoundland. With me is my Sony 10MK IV. This trip was the reason I bought the Sony. Light and
a Lens to die for...

Peter

How are the corners on that lens, particularly in the lower range, up to 200mm equiv?
How long does the battery last?

digitaldog

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Re: Best Travel Camera for under $2,000 US
« Reply #39 on: June 14, 2018, 11:08:34 AM »

How long does the battery last?
Not long at all! That's this products biggest issue for me thus far. But they are really small and inexpensive so be sure you haul a lot with you if you are shooting all day long. I suppose there are ways to set the camera to conserve power, like turning it off as often as not needed, but with it on all day long, shooting, a couple hours and it's dead. I use the LCD rarely too so I don't know what causes the power to go down so quickly.
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Andrew Rodney
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