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Author Topic: Anthony Bourdain: RIP  (Read 580 times)

JNB_Rare

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Anthony Bourdain: RIP
« on: June 08, 2018, 12:17:57 PM »

Sad news about Anthony Bourdain: NY Times

My first introduction to Bourdain was through his book "Kitchen Confidential". Over the years I've really enjoyed his various "gastro-travel" series. In every part of the world he's shown us a common thread of a love of food and its importance to culture, community and family. His later series, sometimes in countries with political/cultural divides and instability, revealed other common human traits: dreams, aspirations, fears, resilience. He will be missed.

Chris Kern

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Re: Anthony Bourdain: RIP
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2018, 07:44:43 PM »

Bourdain was an outstanding reporter and raconteur, with a fine writing style and a sophisticated knowledge of the motion picture canon.

A year ago, The New Yorker published a fine profile of Bourdain by staff writer Patrick Radden Keefe.  (I hope the link I've provided will work outside of North America.)

He and I grew up in the same small town in northern New Jersey, but I don't recall ever meeting him.  I wish I had: interesting guy with an admirable ability to appreciate cultures very different from the rather constricted environment in which we lived as children.  He was nine years younger, so it makes sense that our paths never crossed.

Farmer

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Re: Anthony Bourdain: RIP
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2018, 08:01:12 PM »

(I hope the link I've provided will work outside of North America.)

No problem - it's not geoblocked.
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Phil Brown

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Re: Anthony Bourdain: RIP
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2018, 09:41:42 PM »

I heard the news of Bourdain’s death with great sadness. I admired his television work a great deal. (Little-known fact: his long-time DP, Zac Zamboni, worked for me as a young pa/grip at the beginning of his career.)

Bourdain was someone who seemed to really learn from his travels. I remember him being umbearably arrogant in his early shows, but as he went on, he seemed to take more and more pleasure and interest in the people and foods he encountered. I admired that. People who keep learning when they’re already successful are rare. I shall miss his work.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Anthony Bourdain: RIP
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2018, 01:32:03 AM »

He was an interesting guy with an interesting show.  But it's never good when someone takes their life regardless of what they have accomplished or not.  It's a real loss especially to those who loved him.

texshooter

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Re: Anthony Bourdain: RIP
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2018, 03:25:51 PM »

He was an interesting guy with an interesting show.  But it's never good when someone takes their life regardless of what they have accomplished or not.  It's a real loss especially to those who loved him.

The cessation of suffering is a good thing.   Suicide is not murder; it is a fatal illness.  And a true loved one will respect the deceased's choice.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 04:01:55 PM by texshooter »
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digitaldog

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Re: Anthony Bourdain: RIP
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2018, 04:30:35 PM »

And a true loved one will respect the deceased's choice.
AS someone who lost a brother in law (more like my only brother) to suicided, I don't agree! Maybe you have actual experience with this too and feel differently yes/no?
Very sad news, I've been bummed out since reading about Bourdain yesterday morning.
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Andrew Rodney
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Alan Klein

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Re: Anthony Bourdain: RIP
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2018, 04:51:07 PM »

Suicide is very selfish.   The pain it leaves those still alive is immense especially to family.  It's especially damaging to minor children. 

aderickson

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Re: Anthony Bourdain: RIP
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2018, 09:34:34 PM »

It is perplexing. A very smart engaging guy at the peak of his career with a beautiful girlfriend and seemingly everything going for him, how can we understand?

I enjoyed his shows. My wife is from the Philippines and he did a couple of very insightful episodes of her country. I have an Iranian friend and his piece on Iran was eye-opening.

He seemed to live life to the fullest in an extent that I envy. I can only wonder at the demons inside him.

Allan
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Rand47

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Re: Anthony Bourdain: RIP
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2018, 10:11:31 AM »

Suicide is very selfish.   The pain it leaves those still alive is immense especially to family.  It's especially damaging to minor children.

While what you say is true, I think, it certainly isn’t “all there is to know, or say” about people who make that choice.  The tone of your post (whether intended or not) is judgmental.  As though the person who commits suicide never considers the pain he/she will cause for others (or has and just doesn’t give a damn).  You might consider this, that the pain that drives them to end it all is so great that even though they fully realize the impact of their action on people they love, they are still driven to an ultimate method of relief.

One of the lessons in this particular instance is that no matter how great someone’s life looks from the outside, nor how much real success someone has achieved, it isn’t sufficient as a “reason to live,” and in fact may contribute to a more ultimate sense of the meaninglessness of their life.

I don’t think we need to “respect their choice.”  Everything in me would want to help them find meaning for their lives that would be a sufficient foundation for the future.  But in the end, I do need to recognize the reality of their pain.

Rand
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 10:24:07 AM by Rand47 »
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Re: Anthony Bourdain: RIP
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2018, 11:51:06 AM »

While what you say is true, I think, it certainly isn’t “all there is to know, or say” about people who make that choice.  The tone of your post (whether intended or not) is judgmental.  As though the person who commits suicide never considers the pain he/she will cause for others (or has and just doesn’t give a damn).  You might consider this, that the pain that drives them to end it all is so great that even though they fully realize the impact of their action on people they love, they are still driven to an ultimate method of relief.

One of the lessons in this particular instance is that no matter how great someone’s life looks from the outside, nor how much real success someone has achieved, it isn’t sufficient as a “reason to live,” and in fact may contribute to a more ultimate sense of the meaninglessness of their life.

I don’t think we need to “respect their choice.”  Everything in me would want to help them find meaning for their lives that would be a sufficient foundation for the future.  But in the end, I do need to recognize the reality of their pain.

Rand
It is selfish whether they could control themselves or not.    It's actually illegal to commit suicide in most places, so judgment is part of it.  We don't approve assault for example just because the person got angry at someone else and couldn't control himself and slugged the guy.  At a minimum, he or she might not be responsible because of mental illness or addiction, like an alcoholic or drug addict.  But they are accountable for the damages they do to others including their family.  An alcoholic is considered to be suffering from a medical illness.  However, he'd still go to jail if he kills someone while driving drunk.  The same for a suicide.

I think part of the problem is that we've cheapened life by making it too simple and excusable to end it.  Legal assisted suicide for example provides an approval stamp for ending your life  that use to be immoral and just plain wrong or at least a lot more difficult to do.  By not being judgmental, we're just approving it telling people well it's ok, we  understand.  Maybe if we were more stern about it instead of accepting it, some people at least would not do it.  Don't we want to save people from suicide?  Giving a stamp of approval just encourages it in some people by saying it's OK.

Rand47

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Re: Anthony Bourdain: RIP
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2018, 12:29:51 PM »

It is selfish whether they could control themselves or not.    It's actually illegal to commit suicide in most places, so judgment is part of it.  We don't approve assault for example just because the person got angry at someone else and couldn't control himself and slugged the guy.  At a minimum, he or she might not be responsible because of mental illness or addiction, like an alcoholic or drug addict.  But they are accountable for the damages they do to others including their family.  An alcoholic is considered to be suffering from a medical illness.  However, he'd still go to jail if he kills someone while driving drunk.  The same for a suicide.

I think part of the problem is that we've cheapened life by making it too simple and excusable to end it.  Legal assisted suicide for example provides an approval stamp for ending your life  that use to be immoral and just plain wrong or at least a lot more difficult to do.  By not being judgmental, we're just approving it telling people well it's ok, we  understand.  Maybe if we were more stern about it instead of accepting it, some people at least would not do it.  Don't we want to save people from suicide?  Giving a stamp of approval just encourages it in some people by saying it's OK.

I'm sure his loved ones will be comforted by your words.   You seem to confuse (or worse) the difference between condoning, and understanding and compassion - as though they are mutually exclusive.

Rand
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 12:58:18 PM by Rand47 »
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Anthony Bourdain: RIP
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2018, 01:24:56 PM »

It is selfish whether they could control themselves or not.    It's actually illegal to commit suicide in most places, so judgment is part of it.  We don't approve assault for example just because the person got angry at someone else and couldn't control himself and slugged the guy.  At a minimum, he or she might not be responsible because of mental illness or addiction, like an alcoholic or drug addict.  But they are accountable for the damages they do to others including their family.  An alcoholic is considered to be suffering from a medical illness.  However, he'd still go to jail if he kills someone while driving drunk.  The same for a suicide.

I think part of the problem is that we've cheapened life by making it too simple and excusable to end it.  Legal assisted suicide for example provides an approval stamp for ending your life  that use to be immoral and just plain wrong or at least a lot more difficult to do.  By not being judgmental, we're just approving it telling people well it's ok, we  understand.  Maybe if we were more stern about it instead of accepting it, some people at least would not do it.  Don't we want to save people from suicide?  Giving a stamp of approval just encourages it in some people by saying it's OK.

Occasionally, someone whom one had previously regarded as sensible and rational expresses a view which is so lacking in understanding, so based on false analogy, so misrepresentative of fact and so based on mere unprovable assertion that not only does it not merit a response, it fundamentally and irrevocably alters one's impression of that person. I know more about you now, Alan, than I knew before and I'm saddened.

Jeremy
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Alan Klein

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Re: Anthony Bourdain: RIP
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2018, 02:15:25 PM »

Occasionally, someone whom one had previously regarded as sensible and rational expresses a view which is so lacking in understanding, so based on false analogy, so misrepresentative of fact and so based on mere unprovable assertion that not only does it not merit a response, it fundamentally and irrevocably alters one's impression of that person. I know more about you now, Alan, than I knew before and I'm saddened.

Jeremy
You know nothing about me or my experiences.  I'm sorry you feel the need to judge me.

Alan Klein

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Re: Anthony Bourdain: RIP
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2018, 02:22:18 PM »

I'm sure his loved ones will be comforted by your words.   You seem to confuse (or worse) the difference between condoning, and understanding and compassion - as though they are mutually exclusive.

Rand
My words are not directed to his loved ones.  I know how loved ones have suffered because they lost someone close to them through suicide.  My words are directed to those potential suicides who might read it to remind them of the terrible pain they will cause others especially loved ones closest to them if they go through with suicide.  It's also to remind the rest of us that we must place life on the highest order and not do anything to diminish that value which might encourage others who are suffering to take their own lives.   

digitaldog

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Re: Anthony Bourdain: RIP
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2018, 02:23:32 PM »

You know nothing about me or my experiences.
Tell us your personal experiences, if any, with a family member who committed suicide.
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Rand47

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Re: Anthony Bourdain: RIP
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2018, 04:07:59 PM »

Quote
My words are not directed to his loved ones.

You have no idea how wrong you are in saying this.  Self-awareness is the beginning of wisdom. 

Rand
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Alan Klein

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Re: Anthony Bourdain: RIP
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2018, 06:45:13 PM »

Tell us your personal experiences, if any, with a family member who committed suicide.

Family details are private.  Suffice it to say that close family members have suffered guilt, shame and immeasurable loss lasting decades after the suicide had left their suffering behind. It's pretty bad to hear about the shock and pain a child or spouse went through walking in on a suicide.  I've also had a friend who committed suicide a few months ago.  I tried as did many others  everything to help him after his first attempt a couple of month before.   I never, ever considered the thought that he would be better dead than going through a depression.  There's always hope.   I too wondered if I could have done better to "rescue" him.  There's always residual guilt apparently when these things happen when you're close to someone.  I feel so bad for him and his son that he couldn't just get past the depressions he was going through compounded by alcohol abuse.  But he was wrong to do it. 

digitaldog

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Re: Anthony Bourdain: RIP
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2018, 07:08:20 PM »

Family details are private.  Suffice it to say that close family members have suffered guilt, shame and immeasurable loss lasting decades after the suicide had left their suffering behind.
And yet, you tell us, suffice it to say, they are all selfish.   :'(
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Alan Klein

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Re: Anthony Bourdain: RIP
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2018, 07:42:38 PM »

And yet, you tell us, suffice it to say, they are all selfish.   :'(
Yes.  They are putting themselves before their family when most people would sacrifice for their family.  Not hurt them.  No one is responsible any more for what they do.  Everyone's got an excuse. 
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