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Author Topic: Need Advice: H4D-40 or Fuji GFX 50  (Read 15548 times)

henrikfoto

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Re: Need Advice: H4D-40 or Fuji GFX 50
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2018, 03:07:59 am »

Hi,

I guess that the new Fuji lenses are new designs and they are said to be developed for the 100 MP sensors. Many of the designs are quite complex and I would guess they have new glass that may have not been available when the H-series lenses were designed.

Best regards
Erik

That makes sense. I have used many of the H lenses and these new Fujifilm lenses are a lot better.

Henrik
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Bo_Dez

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Re: Need Advice: H4D-40 or Fuji GFX 50
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2018, 06:13:54 am »

They are better in some ways, very sharp yes. But Im not a fan of the way the GFX lenses render, which tonally seem quite two dimensional. It's not that they are bad, just pretty plain and common looking. The Fuji rendering has the appearance of a dSLR to me.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 01:41:34 pm by Bo_Dez »
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pschefz

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Re: Need Advice: H4D-40 or Fuji GFX 50
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2018, 02:00:02 pm »

They are better in some ways, very sharp yes. But Im not a fan of the way the GFX lenses render, which tonally seem quite two dimensional. It's not that they are bad, just pretty plain and common looking. The Fuji rendering has the appearance of a dSLR to me.
yes, fuji abandoned the "3D" look when they stopped making lenses for hasselblad....it just does not work well with the overall fuji look and rendering.....this was also true about fuji film....they somehow managed to make it look more flat....
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henrikfoto

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Re: Need Advice: H4D-40 or Fuji GFX 50
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2018, 03:04:28 pm »

yes, fuji abandoned the "3D" look when they stopped making lenses for hasselblad....it just does not work well with the overall fuji look and rendering.....this was also true about fuji film....they somehow managed to make it look more flat....

I donˋt agree on this. The 110mm f.2 is very much «3D»
I have allways be a fan of Zeiss but these new Fujinon lenses (at least the 23mm and 110mm)
are very special. «3D» is more a feeling like religion..🙈
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 04:57:33 pm by henrikfoto »
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henrikfoto

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Re: Need Advice: H4D-40 or Fuji GFX 50
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2018, 04:58:06 pm »

I donˋt agree on this. The 110mm f.2 is very much «3D»
I have allways be a fan of Zeiss but these new Fujinon lenses (at least the 23mm and 110mm)
are very special. «3D» is more a feeling ...🙈
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pschefz

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Re: Need Advice: H4D-40 or Fuji GFX 50
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2018, 05:59:13 pm »

I donˋt agree on this. The 110mm f.2 is very much «3D»
I have allways be a fan of Zeiss but these new Fujinon lenses (at least the 23mm and 110mm)
are very special. «3D» is more a feeling like religion..🙈
sorry, i thought the sarcasm was obvious....
i have never been a great fan of zeiss rendering, but a huge fan of fuji glass (and cameras) since their own MF offerings....i have never bought into the leica, zeiss 3D (religion) and everything else just isn't.....
some of the same people who praised the H series lenses (made by fuji) somehow dislike fuji glass now....
i have shot with great  (for different reasons)  glass from all manufacturers and have had favorite lenses with all my cameras....some of the worst lenses i have owned were canon, zeiss and leica (as well as nikon,...) but honestly i have never owned a lens i just disliked from fuji....some are better, some worse.....
i have also yet to canoe across a negative review of the fuji GF glass....other then.....well, religious belief based ones....
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Bo_Dez

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Re: Need Advice: H4D-40 or Fuji GFX 50
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2018, 06:01:58 pm »

3D is not a feeling. It's a quantifiable thing and part of lens design.
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Jim Kasson

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Re: Need Advice: H4D-40 or Fuji GFX 50
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2018, 07:28:42 pm »

sorry, i thought the sarcasm was obvious....

I thought it was sarcasm, but I wasn't sure, and I didn't want to make some crack and tick you off.

Jim

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Re: Need Advice: H4D-40 or Fuji GFX 50
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2018, 09:50:12 pm »

For me it's the mother of all sarcasms. 😂



sorry, i thought the sarcasm was obvious....
i have never been a great fan of zeiss rendering, but a huge fan of fuji glass (and cameras) since their own MF offerings....i have never bought into the leica, zeiss 3D (religion) and everything else just isn't.....
some of the same people who praised the H series lenses (made by fuji) somehow dislike fuji glass now....
i have shot with great  (for different reasons)  glass from all manufacturers and have had favorite lenses with all my cameras....some of the worst lenses i have owned were canon, zeiss and leica (as well as nikon,...) but honestly i have never owned a lens i just disliked from fuji....some are better, some worse.....
i have also yet to canoe across a negative review of the fuji GF glass....other then.....well, religious belief based ones....
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Jim Kasson

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Re: Need Advice: H4D-40 or Fuji GFX 50
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2018, 10:44:08 pm »

3D is not a feeling. It's a quantifiable thing and part of lens design.

What are the units of 3D?

pschefz

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Re: Need Advice: H4D-40 or Fuji GFX 50
« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2018, 12:17:42 am »

What are the units of 3D?
thank you for that, glad my mouth wasn’t full when i read it:)
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wallpaperviking

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Re: Need Advice: H4D-40 or Fuji GFX 50
« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2018, 01:03:18 am »

to be honest, the GFX LR tether solution is the most rock solid set up i have ever used....i have never been able to simply pull the cord, plug it right back in, save to card AND to computer, go back and forth between tether and not tethered so seamlessly....even more surprising since LR tethering was unusable with canon, nikon and everything else i have tried in the past....i guess it comes down to the fuji LR plug in....
i understand that C1 is C1 and LR is not, but i know more and more people who are using both nowadays and adobe is pushing hard....at this point i think both have advantages.....the latest update with the profile workflow is really nice.....
but then, i also really like LR CC (cloud) and hope to see tethering support there soon....


Thanks for this, is there any way you can elaborate on this process and what I need for it?  Am pretty new to tethering in general...

It is only the jpeg's that are viewed this way though right?  Is there any tethering solution that uses the GFX Raw files?

Thanks in advance!

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henrikfoto

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Re: Need Advice: H4D-40 or Fuji GFX 50
« Reply #32 on: May 05, 2018, 04:57:34 am »

I thought it was sarcasm, but I wasn't sure, and I didn't want to make some crack and tick you off.

Jim


 ;D ;D ;D
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Bo_Dez

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Re: Need Advice: H4D-40 or Fuji GFX 50
« Reply #33 on: May 05, 2018, 05:05:00 am »

thank you for that, glad my mouth wasn’t full when i read it:)

This is the very sort of comment and attitude that keeps forum boards the domain of the uninformed sock photographer.
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eronald

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Re: Need Advice: H4D-40 or Fuji GFX 50
« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2018, 05:32:14 am »

What are the units of 3D?

I think 3D aka volume is measured in cubic meters over here by a simple trick: There is a weight in a vault near where I live which weighs 10E-3 of a 3D unit of water, allowing 3D volume, and even linear dimensions to be derived from mass.  But then I never understood all that cr*p because it's physics and I wasn't gifted for it so I turned to maths. Over in the US I believe they have cubic feet, but mine have toes. I don't know how one measures 3D in a belief space warped by a reality distorsion field.

Edmund

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Bo_Dez

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Re: Need Advice: H4D-40 or Fuji GFX 50
« Reply #35 on: May 05, 2018, 05:41:55 am »

What are the units of 3D?

Something you are not testing for, evidently.
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Bo_Dez

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Re: Need Advice: H4D-40 or Fuji GFX 50
« Reply #36 on: May 05, 2018, 06:26:36 am »

I think 3D aka volume is measured in cubic meters over here by a simple trick: There is a weight in a vault near where I live which weighs 10E-3 of a 3D unit of water, allowing 3D volume, and even linear dimensions to be derived from mass.  But then I never understood all that cr*p because it's physics and I wasn't gifted for it so I turned to maths. Over in the US I believe they have cubic feet, but mine have toes. I don't know how one measures 3D in a belief space warped by a reality distorsion field.

Edmund

A shoulder doesn't have a blade it has a scapula. Why didn't they call it a shoulder lever since that's what it is? It used to be called a wing bone of all things. Since we don't fly, that was confusing for people too. How we settled on blade is still a mystery since the idea of cutting anything is just as stupid as flying. It's been named as several things such as shovel bone as well. Why the hell don't we just call it a Scapula? We can waste time scoffing at lay terminology or we can just get on with the more important things in our life. 3D, similarly, is a lay term and also an umbrella term because there are a number of distinctly measurable traits that model the dimensionality of an image. Since it's a collection of things, but produces an effect that people can actually recognise, it needs to be given a name so people can argue about it with sock photographers on forum boards.

It's a combination of lens design characteristics, some of which are either neglected through poor design, eliminated for budget, or not important or relevant to the lens designer and/or their market... For some, it's a contribution of design aesthetic. It's considered a luxury in terms of optics and has only gained relevance in design in more recent times. Why does a Ferrari look so much better than a Toyota? There's lots of reason, but mostly because it's more expensive.
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Conner999

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Re: Need Advice: H4D-40 or Fuji GFX 50
« Reply #37 on: May 05, 2018, 08:33:23 am »


Thanks for this, is there any way you can elaborate on this process and what I need for it?  Am pretty new to tethering in general...

It is only the jpeg's that are viewed this way though right?  Is there any tethering solution that uses the GFX Raw files?

Thanks in advance!

I can't comment on the Fuji system, but the trick with tethering in LR is to separate the physical tethering process from the photo-capture process. By this, I mean a piece of software (which the Fuji plug-in effectively does) that sits between LR and the camera. Otherwise it's SLOW and painful.

When using LR with Nikon, using Nikon Capture Pro or Sofortbild dumping to a hot folder that LR looks to import images from as they are deposited, is MUCH, MUCH faster and makes hot-swapping the camera, etc., painless.  NCP also allows you to simultaneously capture to, and display images on, the camera while tethered. 

Only pain is that it means opening two pieces of software & creating a new hot folder every time as for some $%^& reason LR mandates that hot folder be virginal.
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eronald

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Re: Need Advice: H4D-40 or Fuji GFX 50
« Reply #38 on: May 05, 2018, 09:25:58 am »

If you ask me, the way an image looks, and the testable quality in terms of MTF etc of the lens used are antithetical. The more one introduces a battery of normative tests into lens evaluation, the less one should expect a lens to look "special".

I own two 85mm 1.4 Nikon lenses, the old and the AF-S design. When I went to visit Norman Koren in Boulder some years ago, I took the new one and my D3s,  and we ran the lens through Imatest, which Norman probably knows how to use as well as most people on this forum, and as he said it was then the best lens he'd ever tested. It basically outresolved the sensor, edge to edge, mounted on what was at the time a bleeding edge dSLR. And yet, another image geek I know, Iliah Borg, had the same impression as me about the "new lens, if I remember rightly  he called it politely "sterile".

Each of the above lenses has its uses, I guess. For repro use or for night photography *against* lights, the new lens with its flat rendering, incredibe sharpness and zero flare is perfect. I actually used it all the time because the images are ok, it focuses super-quickly, and it works perfectly in any context. But if what you want is painterly rendering the old lens is better, and it even has very good sharpness.

People who critique a lens should mention the intended usage to provide context for their opinions.

Edmund

A shoulder doesn't have a blade it has a scapula. Why didn't they call it a shoulder lever since that's what it is? It used to be called a wing bone of all things. Since we don't fly, that was confusing for people too. How we settled on blade is still a mystery since the idea of cutting anything is just as stupid as flying. It's been named as several things such as shovel bone as well. Why the hell don't we just call it a Scapula? We can waste time scoffing at lay terminology or we can just get on with the more important things in our life. 3D, similarly, is a lay term and also an umbrella term because there are a number of distinctly measurable traits that model the dimensionality of an image. Since it's a collection of things, but produces an effect that people can actually recognise, it needs to be given a name so people can argue about it with sock photographers on forum boards.

It's a combination of lens design characteristics, some of which are either neglected through poor design, eliminated for budget, or not important or relevant to the lens designer and/or their market... For some, it's a contribution of design aesthetic. It's considered a luxury in terms of optics and has only gained relevance in design in more recent times. Why does a Ferrari look so much better than a Toyota? There's lots of reason, but mostly because it's more expensive.
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Jim Kasson

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Re: Need Advice: H4D-40 or Fuji GFX 50
« Reply #39 on: May 05, 2018, 10:04:24 am »

If you ask me, the way an image looks, and the testable quality in terms of MTF etc of the lens used are antithetical. The more one introduces a battery of normative tests into lens evaluation, the less one should expect a lens to look "special".

I agree, except for the Heisenberg-ish way you phrased it (the testing of the lens doesn't affect the "look" of the lens except for atomic-scale lenses). I have long been fond of saying that the "look" of a well-loved lens is attributable to what I call "adorable flaws". A diffraction-limited lens with zero SA, LoCA, LaCA, coma, etc wouldn't have a "look" at all.

Jim
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