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Author Topic: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.  (Read 108159 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #980 on: July 09, 2018, 03:31:38 pm »

You’ve read it?
No.  But I read a short interview he did and understand his thinking on the subject.  He's just as biased as the people he purports to be.   

Ray

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #981 on: July 09, 2018, 06:47:02 pm »

Because, amongst other things, you wrote stuff like this:

where you missed the whole point. An anecdote is a single data point, dubious in itself (as you managed to grasp) and also dubious if it is selected by an observer and not forming part of a consistent suite of measurements.

An anedote is a single data point? Really!! I've never heard of that definition. I would describe a single data point as a 'datum'.

It was you who introduced the term 'anecdote', which usually means 'an amusing, fictional story'. The meteorological site I referred to appears to have used the best evidence available to them, including proxy data such as tree rings and ice-core data, as well as instrumental records when they became available in later centuries. The narratives and newspaper reports are used in the absence of scientific measurements and/or to confirm such measurements and give a broader picture.

Following is the introduction to the records listed on that site:

"Much of the information contained in these records must of necessity be 'tentative' to say the least! Up to about 1000 years ago, we only have archaelogical evidence to reconstruct the record: some Roman chroniclers provide cursory evidence for the Romano-Celtic / British era, but it is not until roughly from AD 800 that documentary records make a major contribution - and of course, the era of instrumental record doesn't really start until the 17th century, and even then, inconsistencies / errors in the instrumentation make the early record questionable.

Prior to the age of scientific enquiry, the climatological data have been reconstructed using 'proxy' data, such as tree ring records (dendroclimatology), ice-core sampling, estate records, tales of war and the administration of great kings, monastic lists etc."

https://www.booty.org.uk/booty.weather/climate/histclimat.htm

Quote
Bart has presented such data countless times but you don't seem to have got the message. Peter has it right when he says "How do you counter this kind of thinking? Is there any reason to even try?"

As I've mentioned before, a few times, I used to accept the narrative about the alarming consequences of rising CO2 levels. I had no reason to doubt it. I used to listen to interviews of famous scientists such as James Lovelock, expressing their concerns. I assumed that almost all scientists were of a similar opinion, and one of my topics of conversation among friends, on the issue of AGW, was, 'Why aren't we taking more positive action to reduce CO2 levels?' We know that electric cars are technologically feasible. 50 years ago in England, the milkman used to deliver the milk in the early hours of the morning, driving an electric, battery-operated van. Why doesn't the government introduce a moratorium on the contstruction of petrol-driven vehicles, and encourage the development of the electric car which would take over, by decree, at a specific time in the future, say in 20 years time?

You should now be able to see that any claims that 'I haven't got the message' are false.  ;)
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jeremyrh

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #982 on: July 10, 2018, 03:34:22 am »

An anecdote is a single data point? Really!! I've never heard of that definition.

It's not a definition; it's a description.

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It was you who introduced the term 'anecdote', which usually means 'an amusing, fictional story'.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/anecdote

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As I've mentioned before, a few times, I used to accept the narrative about the alarming consequences of rising CO2 levels. I had no reason to doubt it. I used to listen to interviews of famous scientists such as James Lovelock, expressing their concerns. I assumed that almost all scientists were of a similar opinion, and one of my topics of conversation among friends, on the issue of AGW, was, 'Why aren't we taking more positive action to reduce CO2 levels?' We know that electric cars are technologically feasible. 50 years ago in England, the milkman used to deliver the milk in the early hours of the morning, driving an electric, battery-operated van. Why doesn't the government introduce a moratorium on the contstruction of petrol-driven vehicles, and encourage the development of the electric car which would take over, by decree, at a specific time in the future, say in 20 years time?

You should now be able to see that any claims that 'I haven't got the message' are false.  ;)

Good to hear, though a little strange that you express this enlightenment as a past state. Perhaps once you had the message but lost it? That can happen with the death of neurons. Anyway, I look forward to seeing fewer claims that isolated extreme weather events occurring in the past have any relevance whatsoever to the issue of global climate.
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Rob C

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #983 on: July 10, 2018, 07:16:16 am »

It's not a definition; it's a description.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/anecdote

Good to hear, though a little strange that you express this enlightenment as a past state. Perhaps once you had the message but lost it? That can happen with the death of neurons. Anyway, I look forward to seeing fewer claims that isolated extreme weather events occurring in the past have any relevance whatsoever to the issue of global climate.


If you can think of part-time, situational virginity, you are close to understanding the ethic.

:-)

Ray

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #984 on: July 10, 2018, 10:33:02 am »

Good to hear, though a little strange that you express this enlightenment as a past state. Perhaps once you had the message but lost it? That can happen with the death of neurons.

No. I'm not suffering from Alzheimers (yet  ;)  ). I remember the messages clearly. I changed my mind as a result of my own investigation into the issue, which was motivated by my natural, inquisitive nature and my concern about the serious subject of human welfare on a global scale.

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Anyway, I look forward to seeing fewer claims that isolated extreme weather events occurring in the past have any relevance whatsoever to the issue of global climate.

What a strange idea. It seems obvious to me that there is no climate without weather. It is weather that people experience, and extreme weather events that are the major concern.

Extreme weather events are never isolated. They are all a part of the balance created by nature. When we have very dry or drought conditions in Australia, usually associated with the El Nino effect of ENSO (El Nino Southern Oscillation), the rain that we hoped to get is sent to South America.

Likewise, during the resulting La Nina weather event, which usually follows on from the El Nino event, Australia experiences wet conditions whereas South America experiences dry conditions. There's always a balance.


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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #985 on: July 10, 2018, 10:57:24 am »

..l I look forward to seeing fewer claims that isolated extreme weather events occurring in the past have any relevance whatsoever to the issue of global climate.

And I look forward to seeing fewer posts/news of the kind “the hottest day/year/area on record...” posing as “proof” of the global warming.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #986 on: July 10, 2018, 11:06:25 am »

And I look forward to seeing fewer posts/news of the kind “the hottest day/year/area on record...” posing as “proof” of the global warming.

Even if their increasing frequency indicates a (changing) trend?

I'd agree that isolated events are not that informative, but when they start changing a pattern/trend, they can be valuable to take note of.

Cheers,
Bart
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Alan Klein

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #987 on: July 10, 2018, 12:03:07 pm »

A lot of the hot weather we experienced on the Eastern United States had been caused by the jet stream moving North. So would that indicate climate change or just weather?

degrub

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #988 on: July 10, 2018, 12:38:40 pm »

weather
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Alan Klein

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #989 on: July 10, 2018, 04:09:32 pm »

Ok I did some research.  This study claims the jet stream moving north is caused by climate change and contributes to hotter and colder weather snaps.
https://insideclimatenews.org/news/02022018/cold-weather-polar-vortex-jet-stream-explained-global-warming-arctic-ice-climate-change

RSL

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #990 on: July 10, 2018, 04:11:31 pm »

ROTFL!
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Alan Klein

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #991 on: July 10, 2018, 04:28:38 pm »

ROTFL!

Don't laugh Russ, this is a serious matter.  During the last heat spell caused by the jet stream moving north, I couldn't get my A/C to get down to setpoint.  It got uncomfortably hot.   Last year, my A/C mechanic told me we're leaking coolant.  So now my A/C leak is contributing to anthropogenic warming and damaging the ozone layer.  :)

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #992 on: July 10, 2018, 05:00:09 pm »

Don't laugh Russ, this is a serious matter.  During the last heat spell caused by the jet stream moving north, I couldn't get my A/C to get down to setpoint.  It got uncomfortably hot.   Last year, my A/C mechanic told me we're leaking coolant.  So now my A/C leak is contributing to anthropogenic warming and damaging the ozone layer.  :)
Did you get the AC fixed?  Only if it is a really old AC unit do you need to worry about ozone damage.  The newer AC units are also way more energy efficient so your electric bill is lower.  We replace both the furnace and AC unit three years ago during the fall and got $2K off the price and a 10 year warranty.

 We keep our AC at 78F and on really hot days it pretty much runs constantly until about midnight.  I also have a dehumidifier in the family room so the AC doesn't have to do all the work of getting the moisture down to a reasonable level.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #993 on: July 10, 2018, 07:45:18 pm »

Did you get the AC fixed?  Only if it is a really old AC unit do you need to worry about ozone damage.  The newer AC units are also way more energy efficient so your electric bill is lower.  We replace both the furnace and AC unit three years ago during the fall and got $2K off the price and a 10 year warranty.

 We keep our AC at 78F and on really hot days it pretty much runs constantly until about midnight.  I also have a dehumidifier in the family room so the AC doesn't have to do all the work of getting the moisture down to a reasonable level.

My wife would divorce me if I kept the setpoint at 78F.  Ours is set at 72F and on those hot days recently when it got up to 95F outside, I couldn't get it below 74F (in the afternoon with increased sunload).  But I'm very efficient running about 10,000KWH annually in 2100 square feet.  The A/C unit's  8 years old.  A Carrier unit.  Probably built in Mexico.  :)

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #994 on: July 11, 2018, 07:41:58 am »

My wife would divorce me if I kept the setpoint at 78F.  Ours is set at 72F and on those hot days recently when it got up to 95F outside, I couldn't get it below 74F (in the afternoon with increased sunload).  But I'm very efficient running about 10,000KWH annually in 2100 square feet.  The A/C unit's  8 years old.  A Carrier unit.  Probably built in Mexico.  :)
It's not surprising that you couldn't get it below 74F with that kind of heat outside.  We have a split level house and piss-poor heating ducts which makes for very uneven temperatures throughout.  There's not much we can do about it short of a major renovation which we are not going to do.  The house is destined to be torn down when we leave as the property is worth three times what the dwelling is.  Someone will build a very nice 'big' home on our lot.

I'm surprised your 8 year old A/C was leaking coolant.  I've not been impressed with Carrier quality.  We had issues with our furnace on and off over the years and when it came time to replace we got a Lennox system.
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Rob C

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #995 on: July 11, 2018, 08:11:13 am »

What a profligate bloody lot you are!

I have air-con at home, installled eons ago when one room was a short-lived (very) darkroom. The car cost more because it came with "climate" installed along with another load of useless, expensive electronic junk I never use and don't even know how to use. I never switch on either system, which just makes reality more difficult when you are forced to exit your little cocoon of self-imposed ice-age.

Get real and join life with Mama Nature! She loves you, baby, and if you live by her rules you will be healthy and able to face reality without panting, waving pretty, decorated lace fans and getting little tizzy-fits when you break a little sweat! It could even improve your chances in the mating game: somebody once wrote that girls like a little male perspiration... when it's fresh, that is.

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #996 on: July 11, 2018, 08:14:59 am »

What a profligate bloody lot you are!

I have air-con at home, installled eons ago when one room was a short-lived (very) darkroom. The car cost more because it came with "climate" installed along with another load of useless, expensive electronic junk I never use and don't even know how to use. I never switch on either system, which just makes reality more difficult when you are forced to exit your little cocoon of self-imposed ice-age.

Get real and join life with Mama Nature! She loves you, baby, and if you live by her rules you will be healthy and able to face reality without panting, waving pretty, decorated lace fans and getting little tizzy-fits when you break a little sweat! It could even improve your chances in the mating game: somebody once wrote that girls like a little male perspiration... when it's fresh, that is.
Move to the Washington DC area and see if you can live without air conditioning!!  I don't like A/C myself other than to get the humidity down to a reasonable level but with summer days of high heat and humidity it gets quite bad.
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joolsb

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #997 on: July 11, 2018, 08:42:34 am »

I am not going to get drawn into the debate but I will say one thing. The Koch brothers, their supporters and their fellow travellers must be laughing their heads off at how handsomely the billions they have poured into their campaign of disinformation, obfuscation and ad hominem attacks on scientists where AGW is concerned has paid off.

Denialism comes directly from those who have the most to lose by a move away from fossil fuels and from those politicians who are in the pay of the fossil fuel industry. It does not come from credible scientists. It does not come from anyone with the experience and knowledge to actually understand what they are talking about.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #998 on: July 11, 2018, 09:02:59 am »

I am not going to get drawn into the debate but I will say one thing...
Too late.  It's like heroin. You're hooked.

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #999 on: July 11, 2018, 09:20:59 am »

What a profligate bloody lot you are!

I have air-con at home, installled eons ago when one room was a short-lived (very) darkroom. The car cost more because it came with "climate" installed along with another load of useless, expensive electronic junk I never use and don't even know how to use. I never switch on either system, which just makes reality more difficult when you are forced to exit your little cocoon of self-imposed ice-age.

Get real and join life with Mama Nature! She loves you, baby, and if you live by her rules you will be healthy and able to face reality without panting, waving pretty, decorated lace fans and getting little tizzy-fits when you break a little sweat! It could even improve your chances in the mating game: somebody once wrote that girls like a little male perspiration... when it's fresh, that is.

Live in equilibrium with nature, are you mad?  We insist on being active during the hottest parts of the day, you can't do that if it's too hot. Other mammals understand this.
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Robert
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