Global Cooling. The sky is falling.

[LesPalenik]

Probably causes gas too.

Indeed, Russ.  Even hot liquids and carbonated drinks can trigger gas or bloating.

[pegelli]

Right, Bart. Different people. Same old, same old.

In this thread it's even the same people doing the same old, same old.
As I said in the other thread, I find the deniers are equally religious in their beliefs on this subject as the people they are accusing to be religious believers of global warming.

It's pot and kettle to no end.

[RSL]

Hi Pieter,

You've gotta remember that most people just chug along and don't pay much attention to the attempts of politicians posing as scientists to panic them about the termination of the human race. This kind of disguised political agitation has been going on as long as I've been around and I've been around a long time (relatively). It was particularly active during FDR's reign in the U.S. It subsided for a fair term, but it's been with us again, big time, for a couple decades.

Now Alan will tell you that he IS a scientist -- whatever that  means -- and I don't doubt it. But is it possible that Alan could have a political view that might at least aim his scientific ideas in a particular direction? Perish the thought?

If global warming really is a threat, and looking at the history of long-term warming and cooling cycles I have to doubt it, then nothing's going to be done until a problem is visible, or felt, by a majority. And agitation in the (fake?) news media and on the internet isn't going to make this problem, if it is a problem, felt.

So the "scientists" crying wolf are spinning their wheels (to mix a couple metaphors). It's gonna take a disaster, or near disaster for them to get traction. But even on the basis of our current "scientific" guesses disaster is a long way off in the future.

Which is why this thread is a giant waste of time. But so is solitaire, and this is a lot more entertaining than solitaire.

[Alan Goldhammer]

Pieter has it exactly right.   We have tried to have reasonable scientific discussions but they quickly evolve into argumentative polemics pepperd with snarky comments.   This was the reason for my earlier post requesting it be locked.

For the record Russ both my undergraduate and graduate degrees are in chemistry.   This included a semester seminar in atmospheric chemistry.

[LesPalenik]

Which is why this thread is a giant waste of time. But so is solitaire, and this is a lot more entertaining than solitaire.

Not only entertaining, but if you apply some of the information dispensed here, it could be life saving.

[RSL]

Pieter has it exactly right.   We have tried to have reasonable scientific discussions but they quickly evolve into argumentative polemics pepperd with snarky comments.   This was the reason for my earlier post requesting it be locked.

For the record Russ both my undergraduate and graduate degrees are in chemistry.   This included a semester seminar in atmospheric chemistry.

Thanks, Alan, for explaining your scientific background. But to say that you "requested" the thread be locked is a strange way to characterize "I want this thread closed down right now." and to add "I'm completely serious about this!" isn't exactly backing away from the first statement. But. . . whatever.

[RSL]

. . . if you apply some of the information dispensed here, it could be life saving.

Really, Les? What do you think is going to attack our lives? Surely you're not talking about global warming, which essentially has been in abeyance for the past fifteen years, and even has begun receding during the past two or so. Maybe you're talking about an asteroid strike.

[Alan Klein]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415191/And-global-COOLING-Return-Arctic-ice-cap-grows-29-year.html

Yes, there are other references that tell us two years of global cooling don't really interfere with or cast doubt on global warming and that "studies" and "computer models" tell us this is an anomaly within a great trend, and, as usual, you can believe anything you really want to believe. But what's interesting to me is that none of this has been reported in United States' "mainstream media." Golly. Anybody want to speculate about why?

Stand back. Here comes the thunder of posters rushing to explain why this is wrong.

I promise not to post a comment. 
I promise not to post a comment. 
I promise not to post a comment.

Oh cripes!  Sucked in again. 

The polar bears must be happy about this.  Climatologists will have to pick another victim in the animal kingdom to make us feel guilty.  They always try to make us feel guilty to get their way.  Ever notice that?

[LesPalenik]

Really, Les? What do you think is going to attack our lives? Surely you're not talking about global warming, which essentially has been in abeyance for the past fifteen years, and even has begun receding during the past two or so. Maybe you're talking about an asteroid strike.

Nah, I have other things to worry about than asteroids. And I spelled them out many times in these threads, but there are people out there who won't listen. What can I do?
Let the devil take the global warming or cooling, what counts now is that the weather in my neck of woods has finally warmed up. From a freezing point to a really pleasant temperature - almost like in central Florida. Perfect time to strap the canoe on the car and put it in a nice lake or a swift river free of microplastics and before the ravenous mosquitos unencumbered with neonicotinoids come out.

[pegelli]

Hi Pieter,

You've gotta remember that most people just chug along and don't pay much attention to the attempts of politicians posing as scientists to panic them about the termination of the human race. This kind of disguised political agitation has been going on as long as I've been around and I've been around a long time (relatively). It was particularly active during FDR's reign in the U.S. It subsided for a fair term, but it's been with us again, big time, for a couple decades.

Now Alan will tell you that he IS a scientist -- whatever that  means -- and I don't doubt it. But is it possible that Alan could have a political view that might at least aim his scientific ideas in a particular direction? Perish the thought?

If global warming really is a threat, and looking at the history of long-term warming and cooling cycles I have to doubt it, then nothing's going to be done until a problem is visible, or felt, by a majority. And agitation in the (fake?) news media and on the internet isn't going to make this problem, if it is a problem, felt.

So the "scientists" crying wolf are spinning their wheels (to mix a couple metaphors). It's gonna take a disaster, or near disaster for them to get traction. But even on the basis of our current "scientific" guesses disaster is a long way off in the future.

Which is why this thread is a giant waste of time. But so is solitaire, and this is a lot more entertaining than solitaire.

Hi Russ,

I'm not saying that what you claim here isn't happening, but from the broad and diverse sources I'm reading you're upset about a minority, picturing them as the mainstream, but you're giving them too much credit for what they really represent.

On the other hand you're using the exact same tactic to try and tell us the end of civilization is near because the left has taken over the media and the universities. Just because of your hunch and you say it, doesn't make it gospel either.

As I said, same old, same old, pot and kettle type discussions, so I'm back to photography which beats both solitaire as well as wasting too much time in this thread.

[RSL]

If anybody on LuLa is panicked by the warnings put forth on this and other LuLa threads by the usual suspects, I'd like to remind you of that highly credentialed scientist, Paul Erlich, who wrote The Population Bomb. in 1968. According to Erlich's extensive research and unimpeachable science the human race was coming to an end by the year 2000.

He sold three million copies of that book, and of course he created the usual panic on the left. To solve the problem he recommended the same kind of control by elites that's being recommended by those who are worried about global warming (or as it was renamed after it turned out the globe wasn't really warming, "climate change.") Considering the fact that climate always is changing the new name seemed a sure winner. But it appears few are hiding under the bed.

Best to keep Prof. Erlich in mind any time somebody comes out with a scientifically researched prediction that we face doom if we don't let left-wing elites manage our lives.

[pegelli]

Isn't it true that both, more extreme, sides of the political spectrum are very good at claiming the other sides' defeat and claiming Pyrrhic victories?

[John Camp]

The conservative global warming deniers are now getting bit on their economic asses in Miami -- according to the Wall Street Journal, waterfront and near-waterfront houses are now being discounted because of slowly rising oceans and increasing instances of flooding. This is the free market doing it, not CNN.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/climate-fears-reshape-miamis-housing-market-1524225600

There are other long-term real-world non-political tests of global warming as well. Since I first bought a home in Minnesota's St. Croix Valley in 1978, the gardening temperature/growing season guidelines for that specific area have gone up a full notch under the USDA guidelines. We have earlier and warmer springs, slightly shorter and warmer winters (though still cold) and this change has happened in a single generation.

IMHO, and I offer this thought with complete and humble charity, anyone who denies global warming is stupid.

[Alan Goldhammer]

The conservative global warming deniers are now getting bit on their economic asses in Miami -- according to the Wall Street Journal, waterfront and near-waterfront houses are now being discounted because of slowly rising oceans and increasing instances of flooding. This is the free market doing it, not CNN.

IMHO, and I offer this thought with complete and humble charity, anyone who denies global warming is stupid.

...and the US Navy is extremely concerned about the very large port at Norfolk VA which is increasingly prone to flooding issues.  As John notes, markets and Mother Nature will answer all the questions and very little of the comments on this forum will have any impact at all.

[RSL]

The conservative global warming deniers are now getting bit on their economic asses in Miami -- according to the Wall Street Journal, waterfront and near-waterfront houses are now being discounted because of slowly rising oceans and increasing instances of flooding. This is the free market doing it, not CNN.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/climate-fears-reshape-miamis-housing-market-1524225600

There are other long-term real-world non-political tests of global warming as well. Since I first bought a home in Minnesota's St. Croix Valley in 1978, the gardening temperature/growing season guidelines for that specific area have gone up a full notch under the USDA guidelines. We have earlier and warmer springs, slightly shorter and warmer winters (though still cold) and this change has happened in a single generation.

IMHO, and I offer this thought with complete and humble charity, anyone who denies global warming is stupid.

Right, John. It's called coastal subsidence. In other words, the land is sinking. Yes, the sea is rising too, but at a very slow rate. If you dig out your historical geology books you'll find this isn't something the world has never seen before. And, golly, it's gotten warmer in a single generation? The only possible solution is to hide under the bed.

[Alan Goldhammer]

Right, John. It's called coastal subsidence. In other words, the land is sinking. Yes, the sea is rising too, but at a very slow rate. If you dig out your historical geology books you'll find this isn't something the world has never seen before. And, golly, it's gotten warmer in a single generation? The only possible solution is to hide under the bed.

What you describe is dependent on the bedrock and its stability.  It's not necessarily sinkage but rising water levels which are often exacerbated by higher than normal tides.  We don't have reliable sea level data going back as many years as we do average temperatures.  We do have a lot of recent data on the Arctic, Antarctic, and Greenland which show a marked change in ice cap and glaciers.

[pegelli]

Right, John. It's called coastal subsidence. In other words, the land is sinking. Yes, the sea is rising too, but at a very slow rate. If you dig out your historical geology books you'll find this isn't something the world has never seen before. And, golly, it's gotten warmer in a single generation? The only possible solution is to hide under the bed.

A quick google search showed that the coastal subsidence of florida is projected to be around 3 mm/year, while sea level rise is projected 10 mm/year. Hiding under the bed is not needed, but figuring out what the biggest risk is shouldn't be too difficult

[RSL]

. . .the coastal subsidence of florida is projected to be around 3 mm/year, while sea level rise is projected 10 mm/year.

And scientist Erlich projected the termination of humanity by the year 2000. Yet here we are in 2018 arguing on LuLa about projections.

[pegelli]

And scientist Erlich projected the termination of humanity by the year 2000. Yet here we are in 2018 arguing on LuLa about projections.

But you claimed that coastal subsidence was more important than sea level rise, which is totally bogus.
The only one needing to hide under the bed is you, to hide the shame of presenting wrong information and now hiding behind a strawman instead of being able to admit you were wrong.

[RSL]

Better get your glasses checked, Pieter, then re-read what I said. I didn't make a comparison.