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Author Topic: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.  (Read 14441 times)

RSL

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Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« on: April 27, 2018, 10:35:32 AM »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415191/And-global-COOLING-Return-Arctic-ice-cap-grows-29-year.html

Yes, there are other references that tell us two years of global cooling don't really interfere with or cast doubt on global warming and that "studies" and "computer models" tell us this is an anomaly within a great trend, and, as usual, you can believe anything you really want to believe. But what's interesting to me is that none of this has been reported in United States' "mainstream media." Golly. Anybody want to speculate about why?

Stand back. Here comes the thunder of posters rushing to explain why this is wrong.

pegelli

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2018, 10:43:03 AM »

Stand back. Here comes the thunder of posters rushing to explain why this is wrong.
You're wrong, the sky isn't falling ;)
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pieter, aka pegelli

Dave (Isle of Skye)

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2018, 10:58:32 AM »

I don't know if global warming is true or false Russ, as there are believable and unbelievable arguments being used on both sides of the debate, but I do know that during my 60 year lifetime on this orbiting chunk of rock, that the weather systems and seasons have definitely changed and changed quite dramatically. So whether you feel the need to deny it is warming, or indeed whether it is cooling, or if any of this is due to the impact of man on the planet (or not), but surely no one can deny that it is changing.

Dave
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LesPalenik

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2018, 11:13:11 AM »

Russ, you can calm down now. We just received good news from Sweden - ABBA have reunited, two new songs coming soon.

Dave (Isle of Skye)

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2018, 11:21:21 AM »

Russ, you can calm down now. We just received good news from Sweden - ABBA have reunited, two new songs coming soon.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D
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RSL

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2018, 11:21:53 AM »

I don't know if global warming is true or false Russ, as there are believable and unbelievable arguments being used on both sides of the debate, but I do know that during my 60 year lifetime on this orbiting chunk of rock, that the weather systems and seasons have definitely changed and changed quite dramatically. So whether you feel the need to deny it is warming, or indeed whether it is cooling, or if any of this is due to the impact of man on the planet (or not), but surely no one can deny that it is changing.

Dave

It's always changing, Dave. Check with Leif Erikson for recent warming, and check the "Little Ice Age" for recent cooling.

Ray

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2018, 09:57:50 PM »

The concept of climate is a human, mathematical construct, of an 'average of weather events' over a variable number of years.

The historical record shows that climate has always been changing, both locally and globally, in big cycles and in little cycles, over long periods of time, and over short periods of time, so there's no rational reason to suppose that this natural process has suddenly stopped and that all current changes in climate are due to mankind's influence.

If it turns out to be true that the current, elevated levels of CO2, are the main driving force behind the current, slight global warming, which I doubt, then such elevated levels could protect mankind from the uncomfortable effects of another Little Ice Age in the near future, which could result from natural processes without the balancing effect of elevated levels of CO2.

I can't help wondering if I'll live long enough to see this happen, and read reports of how and why our fathers got this issue so wrong.  ;)
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pegelli

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2018, 03:47:10 AM »

how and why our fathers got this issue so wrong.  ;)
It's not our fathers, it's us ;)
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pieter, aka pegelli

Ray

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2018, 04:50:03 AM »

It's not our fathers, it's us ;)

True. I was putting myself in the place of the next generation, who in 20 or 30 years time, if or when it becomes clear that the atmospheric level of CO2 in itself has an insignificant effect on climate, or, as the case might be, but I doubt it, confirm that CO2 does have a warming effect and that higher levels of CO2 could have saved us from the discomfort of another Little Ice Age if their fathers hadn't been so obsessive about reducing CO2 levels.  ;)
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LesPalenik

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2018, 05:12:37 AM »

Good news from Australia. The government pledged half a billion dollars for the restoration and protection of Great Barrier Reef.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/103473044/australian-government-pledges-535m-for-great-barrier-reef

Rob C

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2018, 06:35:30 AM »

Good news from Australia. The government pledged half a billion dollars for the restoration and protection of Great Barrier Reef.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/103473044/australian-government-pledges-535m-for-great-barrier-reef


""To simultaneously promote the world's biggest coal mine while pretending to care about the world's largest reef is an acrobatic feat only the most cynical politicians would attempt," he said in a statement."

I thought Oz was an ideal place for solar energy harvesting. One could fill the middle with receptor panels and market the electricity, damaging nobody at all. It's what the Sun is for, after all. Most of the ancient religions knew that; only in this cynical, atheistic age have we widely lost the knowledge, believing it to exist for the sole purpose of turning us honkies brown, and giving us gratuitous cancers of the skin.

Rob

Farmer

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2018, 07:14:22 AM »


""To simultaneously promote the world's biggest coal mine while pretending to care about the world's largest reef is an acrobatic feat only the most cynical politicians would attempt," he said in a statement."

I thought Oz was an ideal place for solar energy harvesting. One could fill the middle with receptor panels and market the electricity, damaging nobody at all. It's what the Sun is for, after all. Most of the ancient religions knew that; only in this cynical, atheistic age have we widely lost the knowledge, believing it to exist for the sole purpose of turning us honkies brown, and giving us gratuitous cancers of the skin.

The problem is getting it from the middle to somewhere that needs it, and storing it when demand is low and supply is high (although South Australia and Tesla have made a good start on the storage front).
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Phil Brown

RSL

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2018, 07:59:13 AM »

The concept of climate is a human, mathematical construct, of an 'average of weather events' over a variable number of years.

The historical record shows that climate has always been changing, both locally and globally, in big cycles and in little cycles, over long periods of time, and over short periods of time, so there's no rational reason to suppose that this natural process has suddenly stopped and that all current changes in climate are due to mankind's influence.

If it turns out to be true that the current, elevated levels of CO2, are the main driving force behind the current, slight global warming, which I doubt, then such elevated levels could protect mankind from the uncomfortable effects of another Little Ice Age in the near future, which could result from natural processes without the balancing effect of elevated levels of CO2.

I can't help wondering if I'll live long enough to see this happen, and read reports of how and why our fathers got this issue so wrong.  ;)

Right on, Ray. I've told this story before: When I was at University of Michigan at the beginning of the fifties, the entire geology department was convinced we were on the verge of a new ice age. That idea continued for quite a while until the establishment decided that all those cars rushing around and all those people breathing and all those cows farting were dumping too much CO2 into the atmosphere, and they wanted it STOPPED. That's when global warming began to take center stage. Then, they discovered that their computer models weren't cutting it and changed the name to "climate change." The climate always changes. Same as when somebody asked J.P. Morgan "Mr. Morgan, what will the market do?" and J.P. came back with: "The market will fluctuate."
« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 09:50:04 AM by RSL »
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Ray

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2018, 10:19:13 AM »

"To simultaneously promote the world's biggest coal mine while pretending to care about the world's largest reef is an acrobatic feat only the most cynical politicians would attempt," he said in a statement."

I see some more negative statements in the article. Let's examine them.

"Shadow Minister for Climate Change and Energy Mark Butler said the Great Barrier Reef was being attacked "from every side" through climate change, land clearing and trawling.
"You can't be serious about saving the reef without a serious plan to tackle climate change," he said in a statement.
"As long as (Australian Prime Minister) Malcolm Turnbull continues to pander to the climate change deniers of his party room the Great Barrier Reef will continue to suffer."
Australian Marine Conservation Society spokeswoman Imogen Zethoven said while the funding was welcome, it would be pointless if carbon pollution was not reduced and the Adani coal mine was allowed to go ahead.
"Australia must make the transition from burning polluting coal to a 100 per cent renewable powered future if we are to protect the future of the reef," she said in a statement."


What illogical statements. Even though Australia's emissions of CO2 per capita might be greater than the per capita emissions of most other countries, Australia's population is relatively small, at less than 25 million, therefore Australia's contribution to total global emissions of CO2 is only a very small percentage of those global emissions. According to the linked Wikipedia article below, it was 1.24% in 2015.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions

CO2 in the atmosphere is fairly evenly spread around the globe. Even if Australia were to become the first country in the world to produce all of its energy requirements with no emissions of CO2 whatsoever, that would have hardly any effect in protecting the Great Barrier Reef, assuming that CO2 emissions are the cause of the current problem, which is not at all certain.

However, what is certain is that the crown-of-thorns starfish is damaging the reef, as well as the run-off of fertilizers and pesticides from local farms close to the reef.

Tackling these issues of greater certainty is by far the more sensible approach, although it could be embarrassing for the AGW alarmists if the reef were largely restored to its former health as a result of eliminating the crown-of-thorns starfish and the chemical run-off.  ;)

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SrMi

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2018, 11:49:33 AM »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415191/And-global-COOLING-Return-Arctic-ice-cap-grows-29-year.html

Yes, there are other references that tell us two years of global cooling don't really interfere with or cast doubt on global warming and that "studies" and "computer models" tell us this is an anomaly within a great trend, and, as usual, you can believe anything you really want to believe. But what's interesting to me is that none of this has been reported in United States' "mainstream media." Golly. Anybody want to speculate about why?

Stand back. Here comes the thunder of posters rushing to explain why this is wrong.

Do not want to take a position here on global warming/cooling. There is so much information and misinformation on that topic that it is always important to examine the source:
a) Daily Mail is a tabloid
b) David Rose "has been criticised by climate scientists and environmentalists for an over-reliance on unsound and unscientific sources and has been censured by Independent Press Standards Organisation (IPSO)" (Wikipedia).

Of course, that does not mean that he the article is wrong per se, but rather that the article is not trustworthy.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2018, 12:17:13 PM »

Sometimes, it takes an activist pressure to stimulate technological advancements.

Quote
This week, Bosch made their move, announcing via a dramatic statement from their CEO that "today, we want to put a stop, once and for all, to the debate about the demise of diesel technology." If diesel is to be redeemed after all, it appears that many will vie for the role of savior.
"There's a future for diesel," said Bosch CEO Volkmar Denner at the company's annual press conference on Wednesday. "Bosch is pushing the boundaries of what is technically feasible. Equipped with the latest Bosch technology, diesel vehicles will be classed as low-emission vehicles and yet remain affordable."

http://www.dw.com/en/miracle-or-mirage-boschs-diesel-breakthrough/a-43565880

digitaldog

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2018, 12:28:31 PM »

You're wrong, the sky isn't falling ;)
Because it can't. But that doesn't stop some here from creating posts that have nothing to do with photography on a photo site because they can't find a forum on arguing about politics to waste their time on. Wouldn’t working on their (so called) photography (fine art or otherwise) be time better spent?
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Andrew Rodney
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BartvanderWolf

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2018, 02:01:52 PM »

True. I was putting myself in the place of the next generation, who in 20 or 30 years time, if or when it becomes clear that the atmospheric level of CO2 in itself has an insignificant effect on climate, or, as the case might be, but I doubt it, confirm that CO2 does have a warming effect and that higher levels of CO2 could have saved us from the discomfort of another Little Ice Age if their fathers hadn't been so obsessive about reducing CO2 levels.  ;)

Denying scientific evidence won't help your credibility. It has been know since 1824 that certain gasses cause a greenhouse effect. The effect was more fully quantified by Svante Arrhenius in 1896, who made the first quantitative prediction of global warming due to a hypothetical doubling of atmospheric carbon dioxide. It has also been known since the second half of the last century that a large part is caused by humans, through the burning of fossil fuel.

Even the oil companies confirm that:
https://thecorrespondent.com/6285/shell-made-a-film-about-climate-change-in-1991-then-neglected-to-heed-its-own-warning/692663565-875331f6

And it is anthropogenic (caused by humans burning fossil fuels):
https://youtu.be/-PrrTk6DqzE

And it will impact our Climate:
https://youtu.be/VNgqv4yVyDw

Denial of established facts and science doesn't help to address the issues. It does affect your credibility, your choice.

Cheers,
Bart
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2018, 03:03:05 PM »

I want this thread closed down right now. Ray and I tried to keep this topic alive and failed.  Those who were responsible for the closing of that thread should not be allowed to raise the topic again. I'm completely serious about this!

Alan
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Global Cooling. The sky is falling.
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2018, 03:07:44 PM »

I want this thread closed down right now. Ray and I tried to keep this topic alive and failed.  Those who were responsible for the closing of that thread should not be allowed to raise the topic again. I'm completely serious about this!

Alan
+1.
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