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Author Topic: Bee Killing Pesticide Ban in Europe  (Read 1644 times)

LesPalenik

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Bee Killing Pesticide Ban in Europe
« on: April 27, 2018, 06:10:42 AM »

European Union countries voted on Friday in favour of a near-total ban on neonicotinoid insecticides which are blamed for an alarming collapse in bee populations as well as other beneficial insects and many birds. The move comes after the European food safety agency said in February that most uses of the chemicals posed a risk to bees, prompting environmentalists to push the 28-nation EU to immediately outlaw them. Bees help pollinate 90 percent of the world's major crops, but in recent years have been dying off from "colony collapse disorder," a mysterious scourge blamed on mites, pesticides, virus, fungus, or a combination of these factors.

A Commission statement said EU states had "endorsed a proposal by the European Commission to further restrict the use of three active substances... for which a scientific review concluded that their outdoor use harms bees." The pesticides—clothianidin, imidacloprid and thiamethoxam—are based on the chemical structure of nicotine and attack the nervous systems of insect pests.

Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2018-04-eu-bee-killing-pesticides.html#jCp

Meanwhile, in North America, the news is not as good.
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency is considering allowing the bee-killing pesticide thiamethoxam to be sprayed on the most widely grown crops in the United States. The application, if approved, would allow the highly toxic pesticide to be sprayed directly on 165 million acres of wheat, barley, corn, sorghum, alfalfa, rice and potato.
Canada proposes to limit, not ban, use of pesticides that kill bees. Neonics are most often used as seed treatments.  In Ontario alone, more than one million hectares (nearly three million acres) were planted with neonic-treated corn and soy seed in 2017, despite provincial restrictions to reduce neonic use.
A plan to protect pollinators must address neonic seed treatments and sprays.

https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2017/pesticides-12-19-2017.php
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/12/19/canada-proposes-to-limit-not-ban-use-of-pesticides-that-kill-bees.html
https://action2.davidsuzuki.org/neonics

The bee below was captured on a Blueweed flower (Echium vulgare) in a pesticide free area in Carden Alvar in Ontario

Rob C

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Re: Bee Killing Pesticide Ban in Europe
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2018, 06:26:28 AM »

It's a race: will we die off first, or will the animals and insects that keep us alive?

Something tells me they would all fare very much better without us.

Rob

LesPalenik

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Re: Bee Killing Pesticide Ban in Europe
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2018, 06:36:55 AM »

It's a race: will we die off first, or will the animals and insects that keep us alive?
Something tells me they would all fare very much better without us.

Rob

Most definitely they would fare better without us. As reported also recently:
Scientists have uncovered evidence of ancient humans engaged in a deadly face-off with a giant sloth, showing for the first time how our ancestors might have tackled such a formidable prey. Standing over 2 meters tall, with forelegs tipped with claws, giant sloths lived until around 11,000 years ago. Most scientists believe over-hunting by humans eventually led to their extinction.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-science-giant-sloth/giant-sloth-vs-ancient-man-fossil-footprints-track-prehistoric-hunt-idUSKBN1HW2L0

Bob_B

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Re: Bee Killing Pesticide Ban in Europe
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2018, 07:39:35 AM »

Les: bravo to you for posting this and to the EU for taking this step. Neonicotinoids are systemic pesticides that persist in the plants for quite some time. The state of Maryland banned their sale for residential use last year; a small step but a positive one nevertheless. I'd love to see a complete prohibition on their use.
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Guillermo Luijk

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Re: Bee Killing Pesticide Ban in Europe
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2018, 09:47:20 AM »

It's a race: will we die off first, or will the animals and insects that keep us alive?

Something tells me they would all fare very much better without us.

Humankind could solve all the harm being caused to nature and other living species. Ultimately we are the only living species who can voluntarily determine its own auto extinction to make a better world for the rest of living species. The fact that this idea is never even commented makes it clear that selfishness rules the world.

Only the lack of resources will put an end to this situation and a balance will be stablished. We live better than in the XX but I doubt people in XXII will live better than us.

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RSL

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Re: Bee Killing Pesticide Ban in Europe
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2018, 10:02:00 AM »

Ultimately we are the only living species who can voluntarily determine its own auto extinction to make a better world for the rest of living species. The fact that this idea is never even commented makes it clear that selfishness rules the world.

Maybe the solution is personal, Guillermo. Check the hilarious "Microplastics" thread. There are posters on that thread who individually are going to give up plastics in order to save the planet. You probably could follow the same logic with regard to extinction in order to begin the cleanup of the planet and "make a better world for the rest of living species." You could demonstrate beyond a doubt that you're not part of the selfishness that rules the world.

Guillermo Luijk

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Re: Bee Killing Pesticide Ban in Europe
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2018, 11:01:45 AM »

You could demonstrate beyond a doubt that you're not part of the selfishness that rules the world.
I am a part of it, when did I say I'm not?. I was just stating a fact usually not admitted.

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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Bee Killing Pesticide Ban in Europe
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2018, 11:10:10 AM »

Humankind could solve all the harm being caused to nature and other living species. Ultimately we are the only living species who can voluntarily determine its own auto extinction to make a better world for the rest of living species. The fact that this idea is never even commented makes it clear that selfishness rules the world.

The fact that this idea is never even commented makes it clear that selfishness saneness rules the world. Still.

Rob C

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Re: Bee Killing Pesticide Ban in Europe
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2018, 02:04:27 PM »

All in all, I think that there is going to be a great future for any company cornering the market for white sticks.

Rob

RSL

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Re: Bee Killing Pesticide Ban in Europe
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2018, 02:40:48 PM »

I am a part of it, when did I say I'm not?. I was just stating a fact usually not admitted.

Regards

Hi Guillermo. I didn't say you're not. What I said was that like the people now eschewing plastic because they think it's contaminating the planet, if you think that by living you're contaminating the planet there's a similar, simple solution to the problem.

Rob C

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Re: Bee Killing Pesticide Ban in Europe
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2018, 07:00:12 AM »

Hi Guillermo. I didn't say you're not. What I said was that like the people now eschewing plastic because they think it's contaminating the planet, if you think that by living you're contaminating the planet there's a similar, simple solution to the problem.


Simple solution? Indeed: stay out of the sea. Just like the plastic should.

Just between the two of us, I had thought that the flavour of fish was not what it was, and I had been blaming the chefs.

:-)

JoeKitchen

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Re: Bee Killing Pesticide Ban in Europe
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2018, 07:37:26 AM »


Simple solution? Indeed: stay out of the sea. Just like the plastic should.

Just between the two of us, I had thought that the flavour of fish was not what it was, and I had been blaming the chefs.

:-)

I'm all for this.

I was in Europe two weeks ago and whenever I'm there, it never ceases to amaze me how much better the produce tastes.   
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Rob C

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Re: Bee Killing Pesticide Ban in Europe
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2018, 08:05:54 AM »

I'm all for this.

I was in Europe two weeks ago and whenever I'm there, it never ceases to amaze me how much better the produce tastes.

That may well be true, but don't overlook the fact that there are massive variations between eating establishments and what a good woman can create in her own kitchen. I would rather still have the option of my wife's efforts than all of those of the many places where we used to eat, both on business trips as well as for pleasure.

From Cote d'Azur top hotels to simple Logis, the main difference I became aware of was something called honesty.

At home, it was ever honest, and the flavours were not out of catering trucks or the iike. I have the same kitchen, some of the same shops and market stalls exist today, but skills? Gotta be joking: it's why I blow most of the pension seeking my fuel elsewhere. I mean fuel, not eating pleasure.

:-(
.

JoeKitchen

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Re: Bee Killing Pesticide Ban in Europe
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2018, 08:26:03 AM »

That may well be true, but don't overlook the fact that there are massive variations between eating establishments and what a good woman can create in her own kitchen. I would rather still have the option of my wife's efforts than all of those of the many places where we used to eat, both on business trips as well as for pleasure.

From Cote d'Azur top hotels to simple Logis, the main difference I became aware of was something called honesty.

At home, it was ever honest, and the flavours were not out of catering trucks or the iike. I have the same kitchen, some of the same shops and market stalls exist today, but skills? Gotta be joking: it's why I blow most of the pension seeking my fuel elsewhere. I mean fuel, not eating pleasure.

:-(
.

I'm not talking skill though.  I'm talking going to the store, buying some produce and just eating it. 

For some reason we insist on using so much fertilizers here, that the produce grows bigger then it naturally does.  Sure, you get more yield, but the flavor is so bland. 

We bought a quart of strawberries in France that were less then half the size they are here, but the flavor was so much better.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Bee Killing Pesticide Ban in Europe
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2018, 08:42:25 AM »


I was in Europe two weeks ago and whenever I'm there, it never ceases to amaze me how much better the produce tastes.

A friend of mine spends about half a year in Canada and half a year in Ireland. He reports also that the quality of produce in Ireland is higher than in Canada.
When I was there, I was impressed by the variety of fresh fish in the fish stores. And you can buy there excellent Belgian and Swiss chocolates for half price than on the American continent. Same as good red wines. 

degrub

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Re: Bee Killing Pesticide Ban in Europe
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2018, 09:23:09 AM »

I'm not talking skill though.  I'm talking going to the store, buying some produce and just eating it. 

For some reason we insist on using so much fertilizers here, that the produce grows bigger then it naturally does.  Sure, you get more yield, but the flavor is so bland. 

We bought a quart of strawberries in France that were less then half the size they are here, but the flavor was so much better.
There is a taste difference between irrigated strawberries, different variety, degree of ripeness at picking, and the soil they were grown in.
The ones i sampled in California, directly in the fields, picked as fully ripe, were much better than the same variety picked and shipped to Texas.
i once tasted "wild" strawberries in the hills of North Carolina  during a picking expedition. Unfortunately we did not return with any in our baskets. They were so good.
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PeterAit

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Re: Bee Killing Pesticide Ban in Europe
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2018, 10:30:02 AM »


Simple solution? Indeed: stay out of the sea. Just like the plastic should.

Just between the two of us, I had thought that the flavour of fish was not what it was, and I had been blaming the chefs.

:-)

And the sad fact is that as we age, our taste buds age too, and our ability to discriminate and appreciate subtle flavors decreases. It gripes me that 30 years ago when I could appreciate the finer points of $50 wine, I could not afford it. Now that I can afford it ... well, you know!
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Rob C

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Re: Bee Killing Pesticide Ban in Europe
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2018, 11:02:13 AM »

And the sad fact is that as we age, our taste buds age too, and our ability to discriminate and appreciate subtle flavors decreases. It gripes me that 30 years ago when I could appreciate the finer points of $50 wine, I could not afford it. Now that I can afford it ... well, you know!

I'm not so sure about faded buds, but certain about jaded ones.

When I could afford those wines I refused to buy them, and now, not only would I still refuse to buy them, but even if they came free I couldn't have more than one glass a day. As anyone knows, the more glasses of one you sample then the better it gets, right until you hit the limit, the cut-off point induced by nature.

My own experience has broken the wine thing down to this: there is good wine and there is bad wine, which, in practice, means wine that you like and that which you do not like. In that respect it resembles cameras.

Peter McLennan

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Re: Bee Killing Pesticide Ban in Europe
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2018, 11:34:10 AM »

... Check the hilarious "Microplastics" thread. There are posters on that thread who individually are going to give up plastics in order to save the planet. You probably could follow the same logic with regard to extinction in order to begin the cleanup of the planet and "make a better world for the rest of living species." You could demonstrate beyond a doubt that you're not part of the selfishness that rules the world.

Please show us how those who would like to limit plastic trash are more selfish than the plastics industry who resist at every turn limits on single-use "disposable" plastic items.

Also, please show us how concern for our environment is "hilarious".
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Bee Killing Pesticide Ban in Europe
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2018, 11:46:08 AM »

And the sad fact is that as we age, our taste buds age too, and our ability to discriminate and appreciate subtle flavors decreases. It gripes me that 30 years ago when I could appreciate the finer points of $50 wine, I could not afford it. Now that I can afford it ... well, you know!

Youth is wasted on the young, Peter. Or in French, si jeunesse savait, si vieillesse pouvait.

There are good arguments that the dangers of neonicotenoids are very much overstated and that their use in the wild is vastly different from the environment used in  laboratory-based tests. It was the subject of a good deal of written debate a while ago, when the UK ban was introduced. I don't purport to be able to reach a conclusion, but it's misleading to suggest that there's a universal consensus.

See this, for example. From his other stuff (he has a weekly column in The Times), Ridley is a sensible chap.

Jeremy
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