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Author Topic: Large amount of P1 backs for sales  (Read 12132 times)

Bo_Dez

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Re: Large amount of P1 backs for sales
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2018, 10:13:56 AM »

There are four XF100's on ebay now. 3 of those are "like new". Only one has seen actual use with 11k actuations. One of them says you can choose a a specific lens.

Does look like stock dumping. One can only wonder why but it's not hard to look at the current climate and think trouble is afloat.
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: Large amount of P1 backs for sales
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2018, 12:14:23 PM »

There are four XF100's on ebay now. 3 of those are "like new". Only one has seen actual use with 11k actuations. One of them says you can choose a a specific lens.

Does look like stock dumping. One can only wonder why but it's not hard to look at the current climate and think trouble is afloat.


I could only find two IQ 100 listings, but my eBay search skills may not be as fine tuned as some. And the listings I saw were from Camera West, who is known more for Leica, and is only a recent addition to Phase One dealership, and Kurland Photo, who is not even a Phase One dealer. As one of the most prominent dealers in the world, Capture Integration does not list Phase One systems on eBay, nor do we have any need to (the only exception being the very rare poor cosmetic version of a trade in product, I believe this has happened perhaps twice in my 9 years of experience at CI).


Steve Hendrix/CI
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voidshatter

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Re: Large amount of P1 backs for sales
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2018, 01:14:46 PM »

And all those poping up are mostly CMOS based IQ backs.

As if some guys had insider information about something about to happen. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

I'm told that the Sony A7R-II doesn't have the magenta cast for the ZEISS Distagon T* 2,8/15 ZM. This is good indication that the BSI versions of the IMX411 and the IMX461 sensors may have a chance to bring an end to the need of LCC shots for technical cameras :)

Maybe these guys got insider information of an imminent release of these new BSI sensors so they are now selling these upfront to avoid the significant depreciation. It would typically cost more to go through Phase One's official upgrade quotes, because Phase One's trade-in price would be based on the 2nd-hand market for old backs *after* depreciation due to release of new backs.
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: Large amount of P1 backs for sales
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2018, 01:23:44 PM »

I'm told that the Sony A7R-II doesn't have the magenta cast for the ZEISS Distagon T* 2,8/15 ZM. This is good indication that the BSI versions of the IMX411 and the IMX461 sensors may have a chance to bring an end to the need of LCC shots for technical cameras :)

Maybe these guys got insider information of an imminent release of these new BSI sensors so they are now selling these upfront to avoid the significant depreciation. It would typically cost more to go through Phase One's official upgrade quotes, because Phase One's trade-in price would be based on the 2nd-hand market for old backs *after* depreciation due to release of new backs.

As a Phase One dealer, it is our job to sell Phase One products. The fact we're selling them does not have any bearing on whether a future product is imminent.

But any Phase One dealer that would sell a $20k + or $30k + system on eBay is not representative of anything other than that particular dealer not being effective at selling to their market space. Or in the case of Calumet years back, dumping inventory to make payroll.


Steve Hendrix/CI
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eronald

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Re: Large amount of P1 backs for sales
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2018, 09:10:27 PM »

It is easy to see why people might get the idea that there's trouble in Phase One land given the relative quietness of the company of late.  There is a marked reduction in Webinars, we are now 33% through 2018 and still no PODAS schedule, a big decline in Phase One folks engaging with the public online.  There was a major firmware update about 6 months ago and no webinar to teach us how to use the new features, etc...  One would think with the new much cheaper "quasi" medium format products available they would spend a lot more time being out there and promoting their products and explaining why their platform is superior.  As a Phase One customer and system owner, I very much hope they are very busy creating great new products but as someone that has invested a lot of money into the Phase One ecosystem, these things don't go unnoticed and give concern.

Hassy and Fuji (and Pentax) are clearly making money off fairly reasonably priced crop-sensor MF products. I think you can get a Fuji with sensor for the price of an XF with no back. Phase is getting its legs chopped off.

I expect they will concentrate into full solutions for the cultural heritage market, and very hig-rez products, and any crop-sensor users will be told to upgrade or write off their "investment".

Edmund
« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 09:14:00 PM by eronald »
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pschefz

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Re: Large amount of P1 backs for sales
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2018, 10:34:05 PM »

i got an email ad today for leaf backs, 40, 60 pix backs, mostly CCD i assume, all around 20, 25K.....its crazy....
unless one has a very, very specific need for a very niche system, it is hard to justify a 40, 50K back (plus another 10, 15, 20K for a system) these days....it was hard years ago, its even harder today and the fuji and hasselblad systems are filling a LOT of the few existing niches in very nicely....
at a time when you can rent cars permanently via an app (volvo, all expenses incl insurance incl) it seems like it would make sense to see super highest end capture devices going that way as well.....instead of financing the back (system) an indefinite lease (iPhone!) with possible upgrades....
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Large amount of P1 backs for sales
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2018, 12:55:02 AM »

Hassy and Fuji (and Pentax) are clearly making money off fairly reasonably priced crop-sensor MF products. I think you can get a Fuji with sensor for the price of an XF with no back. Phase is getting its legs chopped off.

I expect they will concentrate into full solutions for the cultural heritage market, and very hig-rez products, and any crop-sensor users will be told to upgrade or write off their "investment".

Considering that Hassy has both the multi-shot 400mp camera and the cheap X1D with a 100mp X2D around the corner that will most probably address the few issues of the X1D, the segments where P1 offer a unique competitive value are shrinking fast.

Cheers,
Bernard

Bo_Dez

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Re: Large amount of P1 backs for sales
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2018, 03:50:18 AM »


I could only find two IQ 100 listings, but my eBay search skills may not be as fine tuned as some. And the listings I saw were from Camera West, who is known more for Leica, and is only a recent addition to Phase One dealership, and Kurland Photo, who is not even a Phase One dealer. As one of the most prominent dealers in the world, Capture Integration does not list Phase One systems on eBay, nor do we have any need to (the only exception being the very rare poor cosmetic version of a trade in product, I believe this has happened perhaps twice in my 9 years of experience at CI).


Steve Hendrix/CI

one
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Phase-One-XF-IQ3-100MP-Camera-Kit-80mm-Lens-152-clicks-Absolutely-LN/253526371585?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D51001%26meid%3D3deabf648e0d490d9d564186bd335c2a%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D253526371585%26itm%3D253526371585&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A74139bf2-4ab8-11e8-a159-74dbd180a142%7Cparentrq%3A0b38f2c61630a86bde2e173dffffb484%7Ciid%3A1

two
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Phase-One-XF-IQ3-100-Trichromatic-Set-Boxed/282902324304?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D51001%26meid%3D3deabf648e0d490d9d564186bd335c2a%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D253526371585%26itm%3D282902324304&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A74139bf2-4ab8-11e8-a159-74dbd180a142%7Cparentrq%3A0b38f2c61630a86bde2e173dffffb484%7Ciid%3A1

three
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Phaseone-IQ3-100-MP-Boitier-XF-Schneider-Kreuznach-80mm/232740895252?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D51001%26meid%3D3deabf648e0d490d9d564186bd335c2a%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D253526371585%26itm%3D232740895252&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A74139bf2-4ab8-11e8-a159-74dbd180a142%7Cparentrq%3A0b38f2c61630a86bde2e173dffffb484%7Ciid%3A1

four
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Phase-One-XF-with-IQ3-29518-1/282540966303?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D51001%26meid%3D3deabf648e0d490d9d564186bd335c2a%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D253526371585%26itm%3D282540966303&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A74139bf2-4ab8-11e8-a159-74dbd180a142%7Cparentrq%3A0b38f2c61630a86bde2e173dffffb484%7Ciid%3A1
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henrikfoto

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Re: Large amount of P1 backs for sales
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2018, 04:26:53 AM »

I think these «prices» will change a lot the next year..
After using gfx50s for some time now I wonder how they can still dream of these prices.
Fujifilm have made a very nice system. I have used most Phase/mamiya lenses. Also the newest bluering.
Fujifilm is at lest as good!  For me it is better!
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Large amount of P1 backs for sales
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2018, 10:06:45 AM »

Hi,

No doubt that Fuji made a good job, congrats to Fuji. Hasselblad around with the X1D.

Could be a real shake up for traditional MFD.

Best regards
Erik


I think these «prices» will change a lot the next year..
After using gfx50s for some time now I wonder how they can still dream of these prices.
Fujifilm have made a very nice system. I have used most Phase/mamiya lenses. Also the newest bluering.
Fujifilm is at lest as good!  For me it is better!
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eronald

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Re: Large amount of P1 backs for sales
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2018, 10:48:56 AM »

Considering that Hassy has both the multi-shot 400mp camera and the cheap X1D with a 100mp X2D around the corner that will most probably address the few issues of the X1D, the segments where P1 offer a unique competitive value are shrinking fast.

Cheers,
Bernard

Bernard, you know how to take pictures. But imagine you are running a museum digital capture division, in one of those "foundation-financed" places  and have a  bunch of nice young men and ladies with the right connections who went to art history courses at a prime university working for you, mostly not really "hires" but people who just got slotted in. Choose between getting some cameras, comps, lights etc and watching this whole new thing slowly grind its way into competency, or get  a whole batch of Phase units, with copying stands and lights, and software etc, and above all a local rep who will hold the hands of your semi-qualified staff, answer their phone calls, tell you what training they need, run a Capture course and find you a competent and user-friendly Photoshop trainer, send in a "technician" or "consultant" to help with a job under deadline,  and provide you with an aura of competency... do you still care about the price? Of course not, it's "donor money". It's easier for your boss to get a few million dollars with a phone call than for you to spend another two months teaching kids about lighting, or worrying how to buy the right footswitch on Amazon.

You Bernard may get better pix today from a Hassy 400MP back, even Doug and Steve won't debate the high resolution and absence of colour aliasing of that camera, but What Phase is selling is really the rep, the extra button on the camera which calls the photographic concierge service.
 
If what one wants is a 50MP camera to drop in a backpack and take on a trip, or a specialist who knows his way around and wants value for money,  then Phase One is clearly not it any more.

Edmund
« Last Edit: April 28, 2018, 11:03:21 AM by eronald »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Large amount of P1 backs for sales
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2018, 02:17:07 PM »

Edmund,

I am firm believer in the value of service, but everything P1 and their partners propose can also be done with a 400mp Hassy multi-shot, only with better image quality and, much more importantly from a preservation standpoint, with better color fidelity.

Cheers,
Bernard

Rob C

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Re: Large amount of P1 backs for sales
« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2018, 03:34:50 PM »


" imagine you are running a museum digital capture division, in one of those "foundation-financed" places  and have a  bunch of nice young men and ladies with the right connections who went to art history courses at a prime university working for you, mostly not really "hires" but people who just got slotted in. Choose between getting some cameras, comps, lights etc and watching this whole new thing slowly grind its way into competency, or get  a whole batch of Phase units, with copying stands and lights, and software etc, and above all a local rep who will hold the hands of your semi-qualified staff, answer their phone calls, tell you what training they need, run a Capture course and find you a competent and user-friendly Photoshop trainer, send in a "technician" or "consultant" to help with a job under deadline,  and provide you with an aura of competency... do you still care about the price? Of course not, it's "donor money". It's easier for your boss to get a few million dollars with a phone call than for you to spend another two months teaching kids about lighting, or worrying how to buy the right footswitch on Amazon.

You Bernard may get better pix today from a Hassy 400MP back, even Doug and Steve won't debate the high resolution and absence of colour aliasing of that camera, but What Phase is selling is really the rep, the extra button on the camera which calls the photographic concierge service."

Edmund

That's a fine bit of screenwriting!

I'm in a fix, don't have P1 or any other MF system but, I still think you are the man to help! Let me explain. I have finished both Engrenages as well as Braquo, the complete sets of series of both, and the parting tension in both is killing me.

I have no way of knowing when - or even if - either will progress further to a fresh, resolving the issues they left unresolved, series (this may just be a delicious French sense of sadism at play!) so perhaps you could write a short, convincing final episode for both?

S'il vous plait?

Rob

eronald

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Re: Large amount of P1 backs for sales
« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2018, 04:05:59 PM »

Edmund,

I am firm believer in the value of service, but everything P1 and their partners propose can also be done with a 400mp Hassy multi-shot, only with better image quality and, much more importantly from a preservation standpoint, with better color fidelity.

Cheers,
Bernard

Bernard I completely defer to your opinions on the equipment. And Phase know it too, so they are really smart and they target the "money no object" crowd, who want their shoes shined, not shoeshine cream. For the culture crowd, it's all about integration of the solution, the service etc, especially since they often have to work with an existing staff. I know this situation because I've dealt with them - those who use stuff don't decide what they use, nor necessarily know how to use it.  Those who decide what gets bought have no say on who gets hired to use it.

There are 8 Phase backs listed on the first page of the For Sale forum here, so obviously something is eating into their desirability for general photographic use.

By the way, I enjoy shining my shoes. I do it rarely but I find it very relaxing.

Edmund
« Last Edit: April 28, 2018, 04:14:18 PM by eronald »
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eronald

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Re: Large amount of P1 backs for sales
« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2018, 04:09:53 PM »

That's a fine bit of screenwriting!

I'm in a fix, don't have P1 or any other MF system but, I still think you are the man to help! Let me explain. I have finished both Engrenages as well as Braquo, the complete sets of series of both, and the parting tension in both is killing me.

I have no way of knowing when - or even if - either will progress further to a fresh, resolving the issues they left unresolved, series (this may just be a delicious French sense of sadism at play!) so perhaps you could write a short, convincing final episode for both?

S'il vous plait?

Rob

Rob,

 I recommend the old Nestor Burma films. Can't be beat for atmosphere, I just bought a bunch of them at a garage sale.

 Here is a typical example
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6fTKwJF6Lc

Edmund

 
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KLaban

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Re: Large amount of P1 backs for sales
« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2018, 04:25:28 PM »

Rob

The Bridge, season 4, BBC2, 11th May.
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eronald

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Re: Large amount of P1 backs for sales
« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2018, 05:06:04 PM »

Rob

The Bridge, season 4, BBC2, 11th May.

Rob, I also recommend Deadwood if you haven't watched it yet.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0348914/

Edmund
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JLook

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Re: Large amount of P1 backs for sales
« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2018, 07:27:35 PM »

I am firm believer in the value of service, but everything P1 and their partners propose can also be done with a 400mp Hassy multi-shot, only with better image quality and, much more importantly from a preservation standpoint, with better color fidelity.

I have tested both, the Hasselblad H6D-400c Multi-shot and the Phase One Trichromatic and for my work the Phase One is the one with better colors and image quality.
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Bo_Dez

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Re: Large amount of P1 backs for sales
« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2018, 05:27:43 AM »

I'm not sure anyone is questioning how good the Phase One image quality is.

It's just that there is a lot more to choosing a camera these days than absolute image quality when nearly everything on offer already gives good enough quality in smaller, cheaper, faster, and arguably better all round packages. Despite what a salesman might tell you.

There was a time when there was no other choice if you wanted a particular kind of quality. That's just no longer the case any more.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 05:34:50 AM by Bo_Dez »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Large amount of P1 backs for sales
« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2018, 07:30:24 AM »

I have tested both, the Hasselblad H6D-400c Multi-shot and the Phase One Trichromatic and for my work the Phase One is the one with better colors and image quality.

If I may ask, what kind of work do you do?

Thank you.

Cheers,
Bernard
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