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Author Topic: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean  (Read 4963 times)

RSL

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2018, 03:47:04 PM »

Okay, guys. Surely not getting water in plastic and not using plastic bags when I'm at the grocery store will stop the whole thing in its tracks and solve the problem. The Chinese immediately will stop using plastic too. No doubt about it! And it's such a simple solution.

digitaldog

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2018, 03:52:50 PM »

Okay, guys. Surely not getting water in plastic and not using plastic bags when I'm at the grocery store will stop the whole thing in its tracks and solve the problem. The Chinese immediately will stop using plastic too. No doubt about it! And it's such a simple solution.
The absurd is the last refuge of a pundit without an argument!
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Andrew Rodney
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RSL

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2018, 04:07:42 PM »

Okay Andrew. What's your argument? Tell me how you plan to bring this to a screeching halt.

Peter McLennan

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2018, 04:16:12 PM »

A suggestion: stop going to extremes, RSL.  It weakens your already weak position.

Nobody has suggested that we can instantly "bring this thing to a screeching halt".  We can, however, apply the brakes, even gently.

It's apparent by the results we've seen so far that the only effective beginning is regulation. It works.

I know, I know.  Regulation is a dirty word in the current political environment, but unless you can suggest something else that actually works, then we will see continued, ever-increasing plastics pollution.

The plastic industry fights tooth and nail against regulation.  Why is that?
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digitaldog

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2018, 04:23:56 PM »

Okay Andrew. What's your argument? Tell me how you plan to bring this to a screeching halt.
More absurdly. I already told you some steps you and other can take. No one has suggested anything we do will bring this to a screeching halt. You're simply both a fact denier and someone who insists on not taking any active steps. So what's the point of continuing other than point out your inability to accept facts and take any degree of responsibility. You don't give a damn, right?
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Andrew Rodney
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digitaldog

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #45 on: April 25, 2018, 04:24:28 PM »

A suggestion: stop going to extremes, RSL.  It weakens your already weak position.
+1. His position is blatantly silly.
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Andrew Rodney
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LesPalenik

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #46 on: April 25, 2018, 04:26:36 PM »

Tell me how you plan to bring this to a screeching halt.

here's a straightforward way to stem the problem. Vero Beach resident Megan Hoots is working to change that. The 30-year-old is one of the people behind Plastic Free Florida, which is pushing for limits on single-use plastics, including shopping bags and straws.

https://www.tallahassee.com/story/opinion/2018/04/24/samples-its-time-dump-floridas-policy-plastic-bags/545044002/

Peter McLennan

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #47 on: April 25, 2018, 04:46:47 PM »

OMG.  RSL is from FLA.
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BartvanderWolf

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #48 on: April 25, 2018, 04:53:53 PM »

here's a straightforward way to stem the problem. Vero Beach resident Megan Hoots is working to change that. The 30-year-old is one of the people behind Plastic Free Florida, which is pushing for limits on single-use plastics, including shopping bags and straws.

https://www.tallahassee.com/story/opinion/2018/04/24/samples-its-time-dump-floridas-policy-plastic-bags/545044002/

Yes, it's always best to prevent the stuff from getting into the environment, but then there's also the junk already out there and the amount is growing. So some curative solutions are also needed, like this innovative one: https://www.theoceancleanup.com/

Working at it from both ends, by prevention and cure, should move us towards an improved situation.
Lack of intelligent action rarely helps to solve things ...

Cheers,
Bart
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RSL

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #49 on: April 25, 2018, 05:33:17 PM »

Wonderful solution. How do you plan to get outfits like China and, say, Russia to join in this effort? You guys sound like Californians.

Farmer

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #50 on: April 25, 2018, 05:37:28 PM »

Keep making my day, guys.

You forgot to call us punks, Russ.
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Phil Brown

LesPalenik

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #51 on: April 25, 2018, 05:58:54 PM »

In my country, we are also expanding the system of (money) deposits on plastic bottles and alumin(i)um cans, which helps to increase the amount that is returned for recycling. Free bags with each delivery are no longer allowed, but re-usable bags and containers are encouraged.  The use of Plastic straws being prohibited. We separate our garbage (paper, glass, plastics, chemicals, electronics, vegetable and garden waste, other) before collection. Small steps in the right direction, but a lot more must be done.

Industry is also encouraged to use less packaging if possible. Naming and shaming if need be.
A lot of things can be done to reduce the problem, but totally solving it will be an illusion. There will always be those misfits that ruin it for the others...

Cheers,
Bart

It looks like Netherlands is on the forefront of waste reduction. Not only in percentage of recycled materials, but also in the separation and more efficient material recycling.
Here in Ontario, we have curbside recycling pickup, but only from the individual houses, not from the apartment buildings where now a significant portion of population resides (and pollutes).

Another problem we have, is that the recycling materials are not separated at the pickup time, they are all thrown into the truck and mixed up, so that  the most valuable component, the paper is degraded by the glass shards and hard plastics (actually the most valuable components are the aluminum cans, but their proportion is relatively small compared to the rest and  they can be relatively easily separated).  For a little bit more money and efort, the separation of paper and plastics would yield a more recyclable and higher quality content, but the city politicians are ignorant of these facts and for now they can claim that something is being done.

digitaldog

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #52 on: April 25, 2018, 06:02:20 PM »

Wonderful solution. How do you plan to get outfits like China and, say, Russia to join in this effort? You guys sound like Californians.
So with your flawed logic, both countries, every country has to pitch in or we just throw up our hands and do nothing. Your augments if I can be so kind, become more absurd as you post.
Every hear the old saying: you're either on the bus or you're not? You seem like a cheerleader for apathy. Forgive the rest of us for not joining in.
I suppose you have no children or grand children who will inherit what you've done here. Ask me the same question.
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Andrew Rodney
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David Sutton

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #53 on: April 25, 2018, 06:03:42 PM »

Wonderful solution. How do you plan to get outfits like China and, say, Russia to join in this effort? You guys sound like Californians.

The Russians have nothing to do with it. But the Chinese do.
There are two issues here I think.
The first is taking plastic out of the diet of children. There is a lot an individual can do about that. Begin with no sea salt, no saltwater fish and no plastic bottles.
The second issue is environmental pollution. With this it's a mixed bag. Most of us would be dead within a few days if we completely got rid of plastics. No power or water or transport to begin with. You may think avoiding plastic bags is pissing in the wind and there is an element of truth in that, but in my country individual action has from time to time made a difference.
Ocean pollution is another matter. Ninety percent of all the plastic in the world's oceans comes from just 10 rivers: The Yangtze, the Indus, Yellow River, Hai River, the Nile, the Ganges, Pearl River, Amur River, the Niger, and the Mekong in that order.
You'll note the over representation of China. What can you do about that? Put your thinking cap on Russ. Help with the cooking or get out of the kitchen.
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BartvanderWolf

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #54 on: April 25, 2018, 06:50:49 PM »

It looks like Netherlands is on the forefront of waste reduction. Not only in percentage of recycled materials, but also in the separation and more efficient material recycling.

Don't know if that's the case with everything, but we do live with many people on a relatively small patch of ground (a large part of which is below the sea surface), so we will be facing our own waste problem pretty fast unless we get active in preventing and solving it ourselves. That also means that there is more money to be made outside our own borders than within, hence our proactive international problemsolving orientation.

Not all is rosy though, a lot remains to be done and improved, so cooperation with others and innovation are key.
 
Cheers,
Bart
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #55 on: April 25, 2018, 07:09:18 PM »

Can't we send boats with fishing nets to collect the floating garbage? This is a serious question, no sarcasm, politics or anything else intended.

digitaldog

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #56 on: April 25, 2018, 07:13:09 PM »

Can't we send boats with fishing nets to collect the floating garbage? This is a serious question, no sarcasm, politics or anything else intended.
Depending on who's data you look into, the figures I've seen are there is 8.3 billion tons of plastic that would have to be collected so, that's a LOT to collect.
Notice the percentage of plastic that is not recycled or dealt with:
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Andrew Rodney
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LesPalenik

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #57 on: April 25, 2018, 07:18:48 PM »

Slobodan, I think that in the future the cleanup by boats and nets will be one part of solution, especially around the heavily populated areas.
Also, many plastic and metal fragments sink to the bottom and choke all kinds of life on the ocean floor. 

digitaldog

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #58 on: April 25, 2018, 07:20:10 PM »

The next question is, we collect it, then what do we do with it?
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Andrew Rodney
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tom b

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Re: Microplastics in Arctic Ocean
« Reply #59 on: April 25, 2018, 07:23:02 PM »

China has just changed its recycling policy, the results will be significant.

"Europe has long prided itself on being an environmental leader — a champion of “the circular economy,” in which energy and resources are carefully husbanded, reused and recycled.

The truth is that much of its green success has relied on exporting its trash elsewhere.

Until the beginning of this year, the Continent kept itself clean by sending millions of tons of paper, cardboard, plastics and textiles on cargo ships over the horizon to China.

Of the 56.4 million tons of paper EU citizens threw away in 2016, some 8 million ended up in China, purchased by recycling centers that turn it into cardboard and send it back to Europe as packaging for Chinese exports. That same year, the EU collected 8.4 million tons of plastic waste, and sent 1.6 million tons to China."

Full story here.

Much of Australia's recyling is sent to China so we are in the same boat.

Cheers,
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Tom Brown
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