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Author Topic: THIS, is really good! (The new Blackmagic pocket 4k)  (Read 613 times)

fredjeang2

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THIS, is really good! (The new Blackmagic pocket 4k)
« on: April 16, 2018, 02:47:00 PM »

Awesome
https://youtu.be/iTNab0DujNg

See the specs and price point (ridiculous price). Nothing will beat this combo at size/specs/price.
Finally a menu as it should be in every camera: please Canon, Sony, Panasonic go to see the
People at BM so they tell you how to design proper menus...it wouldn't be a luxury.
The all package is amazing, the price is amazing.
Blackmagic listen...unlike Canon and Co.

They going to spread the world. Rarely we see a new camera that is exactly what so many people
Were asking for years. THIS, is the camera.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 03:14:57 PM by fredjeang2 »
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Chris L

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Re: THIS, is really good! (The new Blackmagic pocket 4k)
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2018, 03:18:11 PM »

Ya I like the form factor. Ill prob get one as a B cam for my BM Ursa Mini if the dynamic range is close to it. I heard there would be some sort of EF mount adaptor for the 4/3 mount?
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fredjeang2

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Re: THIS, is really good! (The new Blackmagic pocket 4k)
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2018, 05:21:09 PM »

Ya I like the form factor. Ill prob get one as a B cam for my BM Ursa Mini if the dynamic range is close to it. I heard there would be some sort of EF mount adaptor for the 4/3 mount?
You have to look for the existing Speedbooster adapter. But yes, the Blackmagic vendor of this video said that they will develop a new version for this particular camera. (I understand that it's not yet on sale)
You can mount almost everything with m43 mount. But as the mount is now
Connected electronicaly it might be a good idea to get a Leica (like the one that comes with the GH5 package) so you have stabilized optic and silent AF.
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fredjeang2

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Re: THIS, is really good! (The new Blackmagic pocket 4k)
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2018, 04:01:03 AM »

Ps: there is a stock of 4/3 lenses from pre micro 4/3 era from Olympus that are pro grade, sealed
And top quality. Nobody wants them since the consorsium abandoned 4/3 so bangs for the buck. But they are quite big which goes a bit against the philosophy of the "pocket".
I have a doubt on this point if it makes sense or not and how the connections
With the mount will interact as micro 4/3 has shorter flange back lengh so an adapter is needed to mount 4/3 lenses.
What I think is that IMO it makes more sense to get the top of the micro4/3 lenses instead of
Using full frame glasses that were not designed for this standart and inferior optically.
At Nab BM mounted it with Olympus and Panasonic zooms for a reason (because I think they are the obvious choice)
There are lenses from both Olympus and Panasonic-Leica that are state of the art in optics engineering and a lot are  stabilized.
And way smaller than their ff equivalent.
A few questions remain to be answered so far, but soon we'll get a better picture.

But the idea is keeping the combo small and see how usable is AF.
Chris Sanderson might know which lenses from m4/3 are working best for video in AF/MF as he uses the GH line.
I used Panasonic for video in the past but not with legacy m4/3 lenses so no experience
Whatsoever with them.
Chris, if you see this post, please report.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 07:52:18 AM by fredjeang2 »
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Chris Sanderson

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Re: THIS, is really good! (The new Blackmagic pocket 4k)
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2018, 10:59:43 AM »

Alas, I have never found AF with the GH2-5 series usable for video unless absolutely necessary - even the GH5 I find unacceptable. I am still in the manual focus world.
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Christopher Sanderson
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Peter McLennan

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Re: THIS, is really good! (The new Blackmagic pocket 4k)
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2018, 11:53:12 AM »

Alas, I have never found AF with the GH2-5 series usable for video unless absolutely necessary - even the GH5 I find unacceptable. I am still in the manual focus world.

Full agreement.  That's why they're called "Camera Operators".
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Chris Sanderson

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Re: THIS, is really good! (The new Blackmagic pocket 4k)
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2018, 12:06:24 PM »

Alas, I have never found AF with the GH2-5 series usable for video unless absolutely necessary - even the GH5 I find unacceptable. I am still in the manual focus world.
I should add that any Panny or Oly m43 lens that has infinite focus-by-wire with no hard focus stops at close and infinity is horrible for manual focus - this leads me to lenses such as FF Canon (+ adapter) with hard stops - preferably with a +/- 180˚ throw.
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Christopher Sanderson
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fredjeang2

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Re: THIS, is really good! (The new Blackmagic pocket 4k)
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2018, 02:30:13 PM »

...focus-by-wire with no hard focus stops at close and infinity is horrible for manual focus...
Unfortunatly that is the truth. So they are all focus-by-wire without stops? bad news. Something I'm not interested in and sadly has plagued the Fuji X lenses also when I asked. So yeah, the speedbooster makes sense or manual cine zooms.
Seems that the only AF that works minimaly well for video is the Canon'.
And so what about stabilization? I guess the GH5 has dual IS no and should be a plus handheld? Or is it another mirage?
But the BM has no ibis.

Mmmm. Bad news. I really like the small form factor of the m4/3 lenses and thought it could have been an elegant solution matching the camera size philosophy. Now Chris cutted me the buzz  ;D not because AF doesn't work, I expected it, but because MF is a PITA with m43 lenses.

It remains unclear for me which current speedbooster will fit, the ancien model for the antique pocket shouldn't work on this one as ot will not cover the m4/3 sensor so I guess we are talking about the existing speedboosters for Panasonic.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 03:17:40 PM by fredjeang2 »
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Chris Sanderson

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Re: THIS, is really good! (The new Blackmagic pocket 4k)
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2018, 03:50:58 PM »

...It remains unclear for me which current speedbooster will fit, the ancien model for the antique pocket shouldn't work on this one as ot will not cover the m4/3 sensor so I guess we are talking about the existing speedboosters for Panasonic.
I recall a NAB video (cinema 5D?) with a guy from BM who suggested that it is likely that SpeedBooster will be building a new adapter for this camera
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Christopher Sanderson
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Chris Sanderson

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Re: THIS, is really good! (The new Blackmagic pocket 4k)
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2018, 06:09:05 PM »

Unfortunatly that is the truth. So they are all focus-by-wire without stops?...

No, Oly Zuiko offers several lenses with a manual focus clutch which works really well. You simply pull the focus ring and voilà - real manual focus. I have the 12-40 that I use regularly and also the 12 prime. They have about a 90 degree throw. I also have a 25 Voigtlander which is fully manual & fast (0.9) but heavy.
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Christopher Sanderson
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eronald

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Re: THIS, is really good! (The new Blackmagic pocket 4k)
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2018, 06:19:34 PM »

Panasonic 12-35 stabilisation with GH4 is out of this world. I did a music video and an interview with it handheld, unbelievable.

I don't think manual AF is going to fly on any camera if one doesn't have a larger monitor mounted where one can see it. Or a loupe.

This tiny BM may have a wonderful image, but in the end it's going to be an external monitor-recorder, speedbooster, manual AF, external power,  external sound box etc etc setup, and anyone who wants to work in peace without a zillion pieces and without a crew to make sure they're packed in the right bags and assembled should just get a Canon or a Sony FS5 or FS7  already, and eat the quality of the image for the peace of mind of just getting the job done. And yes, the GH5 costs the same, and in the end probably solves most of the same problems much better if you don't need Raw.

I do understand that the well-paid parts of the film business are often about getting 10 minutes done on a good day, but not all of video is that way, for news or documentary or even stuff like marriages one just gets one go, and this BM simply isn't going to go there.


Edmund






Unfortunatly that is the truth. So they are all focus-by-wire without stops? bad news. Something I'm not interested in and sadly has plagued the Fuji X lenses also when I asked. So yeah, the speedbooster makes sense or manual cine zooms.
Seems that the only AF that works minimaly well for video is the Canon'.
And so what about stabilization? I guess the GH5 has dual IS no and should be a plus handheld? Or is it another mirage?
But the BM has no ibis.

Mmmm. Bad news. I really like the small form factor of the m4/3 lenses and thought it could have been an elegant solution matching the camera size philosophy. Now Chris cutted me the buzz  ;D not because AF doesn't work, I expected it, but because MF is a PITA with m43 lenses.

It remains unclear for me which current speedbooster will fit, the ancien model for the antique pocket shouldn't work on this one as ot will not cover the m4/3 sensor so I guess we are talking about the existing speedboosters for Panasonic.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 06:27:33 PM by eronald »
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fredjeang2

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Re: THIS, is really good! (The new Blackmagic pocket 4k)
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2018, 08:51:21 PM »

No, Oly Zuiko offers several lenses with a manual focus clutch which works really well. You simply pull the focus ring and voilà - real manual focus. I have the 12-40 that I use regularly and also the 12 prime. They have about a 90 degree throw. I also have a 25 Voigtlander which is fully manual & fast (0.9) but heavy.
Thanks.
On 25mm f0.9 I've heard good things from number of sources on the Mitakon for m4/3, it performs quite the same on tests and way smaller-lighter.
It reminds a M glass and apparently well build.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 09:43:33 PM by fredjeang2 »
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fredjeang2

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Re: THIS, is really good! (The new Blackmagic pocket 4k)
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2018, 09:08:00 PM »

Panasonic 12-35 stabilisation with GH4 is out of this world. I did a music video and an interview with it handheld, unbelievable.

Yeah, I've seem amazing performances on video with the stab in m4/3 that could justify in itself the all system.
Originaly Olympus was famous for having the best stabilization of digital age but Panasonic caught-up and with the dual IS all the comments I read and the footage I've seen is quite impressive indeed.
Just a certain caution with panning as it could fool the brain logicaly but with a bit of practice it is la crème de la crème.
The fact that the sensor is small helps a lot the engineers to build a state of the art IS compared to other systems.
As Canon rules AF, m4/3 rules IS.
The thing is that the BM has no ibis, so it looses a big benefit of the mount, but has a long list of enourmous advantages for the filmaker (and it will have Prores Raw in firmware).
The design, specs and price are spot-on.
The BM is more a specialist camera than the GH5, offers more on what it's designed for but the GH5/G9 do good stills too. There are professional photographers who embrassed the m4/3 movement over FF, unthinkable a few years ago. The system has matured a lot.
I'd buy this BM anyway because it's small, cheap, perfectly designed and really powerfull. It will fit like a glove in any prod model and I think they will sell a lot (waiting list)
Now for Vlogging as I heard, it's overkill and pointless.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 09:35:33 PM by fredjeang2 »
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eronald

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Re: THIS, is really good! (The new Blackmagic pocket 4k)
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2018, 09:47:35 AM »

Basically BM is RED for people with a low budget, and who are happy with that type of workflow - which I guess means you, Fred :)
i guess everyone in the video game needs to actually own one of something, so FS5 or C100 or GH5, or Sony A series or Blackmagic, depending on their shooting style.


Edmund

Yeah, I've seem amazing performances on video with the stab in m4/3 that could justify in itself the all system.
Originaly Olympus was famous for having the best stabilization of digital age but Panasonic caught-up and with the dual IS all the comments I read and the footage I've seen is quite impressive indeed.
Just a certain caution with panning as it could fool the brain logicaly but with a bit of practice it is la crème de la crème.
The fact that the sensor is small helps a lot the engineers to build a state of the art IS compared to other systems.
As Canon rules AF, m4/3 rules IS.
The thing is that the BM has no ibis, so it looses a big benefit of the mount, but has a long list of enourmous advantages for the filmaker (and it will have Prores Raw in firmware).
The design, specs and price are spot-on.
The BM is more a specialist camera than the GH5, offers more on what it's designed for but the GH5/G9 do good stills too. There are professional photographers who embrassed the m4/3 movement over FF, unthinkable a few years ago. The system has matured a lot.
I'd buy this BM anyway because it's small, cheap, perfectly designed and really powerfull. It will fit like a glove in any prod model and I think they will sell a lot (waiting list)
Now for Vlogging as I heard, it's overkill and pointless.
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fredjeang2

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Re: THIS, is really good! (The new Blackmagic pocket 4k)
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2018, 04:17:09 AM »

I have the 12-40 that I use regularly and also the 12 prime. They have about a 90 degree throw.
Do you reffer to this one: Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 12–40mm ƒ/2.8 PRO?
I think it's the one BM mounted on the Pocket for presentation at Nab.
For what I understand, it competes with the Summicron in price/prestations. Both are weather sealed.
But for what I read, the Leica has OIS, BUT the focus ring is a PITA in manual as it requires several 360 at low speed focussing which is unacceptable in video.
This Olympus seems more suitable, but does it have the stop you mentionned when pull the ring?
« Last Edit: April 19, 2018, 04:25:50 AM by fredjeang2 »
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Chris Sanderson

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Re: THIS, is really good! (The new Blackmagic pocket 4k)
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2018, 11:31:11 AM »

Do you reffer to this one: Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 12–40mm ƒ/2.8 PRO?
... but does it have the stop you mentionned when pull the ring?
Yes, that's the lens I use. In manual focus it has hard stops to the focus ring at 0.19 m and infinity. The throw or twist is a pleasant 90 degrees. In AF it has no stops to focus. I really like it
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Christopher Sanderson
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fredjeang2

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Re: THIS, is really good! (The new Blackmagic pocket 4k)
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2018, 02:31:46 PM »

Yes, that's the lens I use. In manual focus it has hard stops to the focus ring at 0.19 m and infinity. The throw or twist is a pleasant 90 degrees. In AF it has no stops to focus. I really like it
Thanks Chris.
Good to know.
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HywelPhillips

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Re: THIS, is really good! (The new Blackmagic pocket 4k)
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2018, 01:00:49 PM »

Alas, I have never found AF with the GH2-5 series usable for video unless absolutely necessary - even the GH5 I find unacceptable. I am still in the manual focus world.

I agree.

Useable AF *is* coming, slowly, system by system.

The Canon 1DXII is fully useable and proved as accurate in most circumstances as me plus a decent-sized monitor on my RED manually focussing on the fly.

The Sony A7Rii was kinda useable in some circumstances.

The A7Riii is significantly improved- I use it on a gimbal rig in autofocus quite a lot now. Touch over-ride of AF is a big step forward for general use, too. It's not infallible, but it's reliable enough to use on paying gigs as a one-man-band in the right circumstances.

These other systems aren't yet at the usability level of Canon dual pixel AF, but significant steps are being made year-on-year, which is nice.

Nonetheless, the gold standard is eyes-on-a-big-monitor and manual focus pulling.

Cheers, Hywel


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fredjeang2

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Re: THIS, is really good! (The new Blackmagic pocket 4k)
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2018, 05:29:54 AM »

I agree.

Useable AF *is* coming, slowly, system by system.

The Canon 1DXII is fully useable and proved as accurate in most circumstances as me plus a decent-sized monitor on my RED manually focussing on the fly.

The Sony A7Rii was kinda useable in some circumstances.

The A7Riii is significantly improved- I use it on a gimbal rig in autofocus quite a lot now. Touch over-ride of AF is a big step forward for general use, too. It's not infallible, but it's reliable enough to use on paying gigs as a one-man-band in the right circumstances.

These other systems aren't yet at the usability level of Canon dual pixel AF, but significant steps are being made year-on-year, which is nice.

Nonetheless, the gold standard is eyes-on-a-big-monitor and manual focus pulling.

Cheers, Hywel
Agree. Canon Dual pixel AF is above everything else right now.
I've been trying the Panasonic G9. It's an amazing peice of fine engineering, much better than I thought it would have been.
But the AF is not yet as good as the 1dx two (for video). However, the stabilization is simply amazing (6.5 stops with compatible lenses is quite something and indeed works for video production). If only Panasonic could catch-up with Canon on the AF side and that would change the all panorama in what small cameras are concerned.
In fact, I found the all G9 package so good, even considering its wickneses, that I ordered one for an hybrid all purposes-weather well sized system. It matches the still qualities of the 1dx2 at based iso, surpasses it in video by a good margin except for AF,
The menu implementation is bad as always but not as bad as what we have been used to in most brands, the buttons are exactly on the right place, the EVF is the best of any mirrorless camera (taking Leica apart), you really have to try this evf; and the cherry on the cake is that it shoots 80Mpx files on tripod (need a sturdy one, lighter ones will not work well) for still objects like arquitecture or products (landscapes depends on the wind conditions and moving elements, I don't see it).
Another amazing performance is 6k burst/pre bust which gives 18Mpx at 30 fps.
And the monochrome mode of Panasonic is indeed very very nice and not a marketing gimmick.
I was very impressed by how well this micro43 movement evolved since, it just needs now an AF a la Canon.
But I see a lot of future in this mount and it's sensible that BM choosed it for the Pocket IMO.
Think that 1G9 body plus 1 BM pocket only reaches 3000 euros and the versatility of the mount is the best.

Ps: As said, there is the speedbooster but I don't see it as a long term solution except for Canon shooters because then we are again in big sized lenses
And the all point is to get a small package with top performances legacy small glasses, avoiding extra devices.
It's a bit silly to get a Pocket to end with a +7kg production gear and a truck for transportation. I don't see the point here.



« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 05:54:54 AM by fredjeang2 »
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