Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Photoshop CC 2018 Printing Rendering Intent Greyed Out  (Read 663 times)

BrianToth

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19
Photoshop CC 2018 Printing Rendering Intent Greyed Out
« on: April 14, 2018, 04:05:27 PM »

Hi,

I recently upgraded my old Photoshop CS5 to CC 2018. A noticeable difference is that when printing, for my glossy papers at least, I no longer have a choice of rendering intent (see attachment).  I'm assuming it's just that the new version can tell if there will be any out-of-gamut colors before printing and is only giving me the option for papers where necessary. Is this the case? I tried Googling this beforehand.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 10:30:00 PM by BrianToth »
Logged

Doug Gray

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1166
Re: Photoshop CC 2018 Printing Rendering Intent
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2018, 04:23:20 PM »

Hi,

I recently upgraded my old Photoshop CS5 to CC 2018. A noticeable difference is that when printing, for my glossy papers at least, I no longer have a choice of rendering intent (see attachment).  I'm assuming it's just that the new version can tell if there will be any out-of-gamut colors before printing and is only giving me the option for papers where necessary. Is this the case? I tried Googling this beforehand.

Thanks.

I use the latest version of Photoshop CC (Windows, desktop) and it has all the standard rendering intents.

I noticed your document file is in an Argyll colorspace. You might try first converting to a standard RGB space like ProPhoto RGB then see if you still the limited intents.

It's also possible that there is some setting in the Preferences that is limiting things. Might look there too.
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11177
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: Photoshop CC 2018 Printing Rendering Intent
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2018, 04:24:34 PM »

Nothing has changed in Photoshop in this regard. It seems as if you are using a scanner profile or a profile associated with a scanner. Maybe this is causing the problem. Use a normal ICC output profile for the printer/paper combination you are working with and see whether that solves the problem. And Doug's recommendation too.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

andrewrodney

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13303
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Photoshop CC 2018 Printing Rendering Intent
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2018, 04:33:49 PM »

Itís the output profile; saw a similar comment elsewhere and upon examining the profile, it didnít follow spec; it isnít Photoshop.
Logged
Andrew Rodney
Author ďColor Management for Photographers"

Doug Gray

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1166
Re: Photoshop CC 2018 Printing Rendering Intent
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2018, 04:37:07 PM »

Itís the output profile; saw a similar comment elsewhere and upon examining the profile, it didnít follow spec; it isnít Photoshop.
Wow! Hard to believe the Pro 10 canned profiles would be crippled. Amazing. Are all the canned ones like that? Crazy!

Also, unless the OP just changed his printer why would the upgrade result in limited RIs?
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11177
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: Photoshop CC 2018 Printing Rendering Intent
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2018, 04:49:17 PM »

I don't believe he's using a normal canned printer profile. Canon wouldn't supply profiles that don't respect the normal ICC spec.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

andrewrodney

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13303
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Photoshop CC 2018 Printing Rendering Intent
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2018, 05:10:21 PM »

I wish this old brain could recall where this issue came up in the past but Iíll look. I recall downloading it and saw the same odd behavior in PS. The Colorsync utility flagged it as not kosher as did ColorThink Pro.
Logged
Andrew Rodney
Author ďColor Management for Photographers"

BrianToth

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19
Re: Photoshop CC 2018 Printing Rendering Intent
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2018, 05:22:12 PM »

I'm guess I'm glad I asked about this, I figured it was just something basic. But of course not. :)


I don't believe he's using a normal canned printer profile. Canon wouldn't supply profiles that don't respect the normal ICC spec.

Yes, those are all the latest official Canon Pro-10 printer profiles.


Wow! Hard to believe the Pro 10 canned profiles would be crippled. Amazing. Are all the canned ones like that? Crazy!

Also, unless the OP just changed his printer why would the upgrade result in limited RIs?

Attached is screenshot of one of the official Canon Fine Art paper profiles, which does show all the options. Which is what led me to wonder about the problem. And yes, PhotoShop CS5 did show every intent for the same profiles.


Itís the output profile; saw a similar comment elsewhere and upon examining the profile, it didnít follow spec; it isnít Photoshop.

I attached the glossy and fine art profiles for comparison. I don't know how to compare the inner workings. The profiles say they have Colorimetric, Perceptual, and Saturation profiles, but not my area of expertise. Is it safe to assume that Photoshop is doing a relative intent, considering that's what the box says? Or is it possible it's doing something else, like not managing the color at all?  I ask because I used to always choose "Black Point Compensation" in CS5 and my prints came out great. Now they seem a bit darker. Also I had another thread about color casts trying to duplicate prints, and maybe it's been the printer all along. I've been doing all my testing using the inexpensive Canon Photo Paper Plus Glossy II until I get things dialed in.
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11177
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: Photoshop CC 2018 Printing Rendering Intent
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2018, 05:25:39 PM »

The profile in your original post says it is an Argyll generated scanner profile for an Epson V800 scanner, while the profiles you show in your post just above are true Canon output (printer) profiles. That's why you see all the Intents in the latter but not in the former.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

Doug Gray

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1166
Re: Photoshop CC 2018 Printing Rendering Intent
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2018, 05:29:32 PM »

It's a canned profile. Photoshop recognizes all the Intents and they behave largely as expected. S

I had looked at this at one time to get gamut and mapping info on the printer.
Here's the profile name and stats:

Profile: "C:\WINDOWS\System32\Spool\Drivers\Color\CNBBEMA0.ICM"
Descr: "Canon PRO-10 <GL><PP> 1/2 Photo Paper Plus Glossy&Gold"   Version: 2.0.0   Copyright: "Copyright CANON INC. 2012 All Rights Reserved
RI->AI, WhitePoint L*a*b*:  93.9   -0.5  -2.5
RI->RI, WhitePoint L*a*b*:  99.7    0.0   0.0
PI->AI, WhitePoint L*a*b*:  93.7   -0.6  -2.4
PI->PI, WhitePoint L*a*b*:  99.5   -0.0   0.1
RI->AI, BlackPoint L*a*b*:   3.5   -0.1  -2.1
RI->RI, BlackPoint L*a*b*:   4.1    0.0  -2.1
RI->AI, BP Fr: L=4 L*a*b*:   5.3   -0.4  -2.2
RI->RI, BP Fr: L=4 L*a*b*:   6.2   -0.4  -2.1
PI->AI, BlackPoint L*a*b*:   3.5   -0.1  -2.1
PI->PI, BlackPoint L*a*b*:   4.1    0.0  -2.1
PI->AI, BP Fr: L=4 L*a*b*:   8.0   -0.7  -2.1
PI->PI, BP Fr: L=4 L*a*b*:   9.2   -0.6  -1.6
DeviceMax->RI L*a*b*:      100.0    0.0   0.0
DeviceMax->AI L*a*b*:       94.2   -0.6  -2.5
DeviceMin->RI L*a*b*:        4.1    0.0  -2.1
DeviceMin->AI L*a*b*:        3.5   -0.1  -2.1

The only thing really out of whack is the Perceptual intent reverse tables (A2B0). Perceptual should map black back to black. That is, incorporate BPC in both directions in the tables themselves. You will see the effect round-tripping to the printer profile and back to the working space RGB in Photoshop. Black comes back as L*=4.

There's also a small issue with the white point which should, in RI and PI map to device RGB (255,255,255). It actually maps to 253.6. I believe this to be due to some early confusion in V2 profiles about how the PCS values are to be interpreted and causes a slight shift, sub dE1. However, some CMMs recognize the different interpretations and will properly convert these. Photoshop does so not an issue at all with Photoshop.


« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 05:38:21 PM by Doug Gray »
Logged

Doug Gray

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1166
Re: Photoshop CC 2018 Printing Rendering Intent
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2018, 05:35:32 PM »

Here's a screen shot using the OP's profile showing all intents. Note that Windows doesn't have the 16 bit option.
Logged

BrianToth

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19
Re: Photoshop CC 2018 Printing Rendering Intent
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2018, 05:39:51 PM »

The profile in your original post says it is an Argyll generated scanner profile for an Epson V800 scanner, while the profiles you show in your post just above are true Canon output (printer) profiles. That's why you see all the Intents in the latter but not in the former.

Those are all the latest official Canon Pro-10 printer profiles.  The Argyll profile was the profile assigned to my photo. As per your suggestion, I had also tried converting to Adobe RGB. Same results.

Here's a screen shot using the OP's profile showing all intents. Note that Windows doesn't have the 16 bit option.

Thanks! Guess I'll boot into Windows and install Photoshop over there and take a look. Not sure I'd miss the 16 bit printing.
Logged

Doug Gray

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1166
Re: Photoshop CC 2018 Printing Rendering Intent
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2018, 05:40:41 PM »

The profile in your original post says it is an Argyll generated scanner profile for an Epson V800 scanner, while the profiles you show in your post just above are true Canon output (printer) profiles. That's why you see all the Intents in the latter but not in the former.

This could be the case if the scanner profile used LUTs and only has the perceptual table. Photoshop's conversion from device space to device space (as opposed to working space) is restricted.
Logged

Doug Gray

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1166
Re: Photoshop CC 2018 Printing Rendering Intent
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2018, 05:43:39 PM »

Those are all the latest official Canon Pro-10 printer profiles.  The Argyll profile was the profile assigned to my photo. As per your suggestion, I had also tried converting to Adobe RGB. Same results.

Quite odd. The profile has all the requisite tables, No reason for the limited selection. Perhaps an add-on is doing this. Weird problem.
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11177
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: Photoshop CC 2018 Printing Rendering Intent
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2018, 06:33:59 PM »

It's a canned profile. Photoshop recognizes all the Intents and they behave largely as expected. S



To be clear: the profile showing in his original post is not a printer profile. The one you are analyzing just above is a printer profile. So the latter is a Canon-canned profile, will accommodate the Intents, and the former is not. He can't use a scanner profile as a printer profile and expect it to work properly. The former is an input profile and the latter an output profile. Scanner (input) profiles don't do Rendering Intents.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11177
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: Photoshop CC 2018 Printing Rendering Intent
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2018, 06:38:02 PM »

Those are all the latest official Canon Pro-10 printer profiles.  The Argyll profile was the profile assigned to my photo. As per your suggestion, I had also tried converting to Adobe RGB. Same results.

Thanks! Guess I'll boot into Windows and install Photoshop over there and take a look. Not sure I'd miss the 16 bit printing.

No, in your first screen grab in your beginning of this thread the Argyll profile is the one that showed up in the Photoshop Print Menu where you are supposed to select your PRINTER profile.

Rebooting into Windows will not change the behaviour obtained from using a scanner profile as a printing profile. Just stay in OSX if that's where you were and select the correct canned Canon profile (no Argyll V800 anything) and you SHOULD see your Rendering Intents.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

Doug Gray

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1166
Re: Photoshop CC 2018 Printing Rendering Intent
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2018, 06:39:53 PM »

To be clear: the profile showing in his original post is not a printer profile. The one you are analyzing just above is a printer profile. So the latter is a Canon-canned profile, will accommodate the Intents, and the former is not. He can't use a scanner profile as a printer profile and expect it to work properly. The former is an input profile and the latter an output profile. Scanner (input) profiles don't do Rendering Intents.

No, he is showing the Pro-10 printer profile. The document profile was a scanner one. It may, or may not, be a standard matrix profile color corrected by channel 1DLUTs using XYZ colorspace. If not, and has DLUTs then it likely only has one intent. We both suggested he use a standard colorspace.

The OP then stated he converted the document to Adobe RGB and was still unable to print to that profile with the various intents.
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11177
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: Photoshop CC 2018 Printing Rendering Intent
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2018, 07:44:02 PM »

No, he is showing the Pro-10 printer profile.

Ah - indeed - I was looking at document profile. Wrong diagnosis on my part.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

andrewrodney

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13303
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Photoshop CC 2018 Printing Rendering Intent
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2018, 08:13:09 PM »

Photoshop's dialog shown cannot load a scanner profile. At least those on my system.
Logged
Andrew Rodney
Author ďColor Management for Photographers"

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11177
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: Photoshop CC 2018 Printing Rendering Intent
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2018, 08:19:15 PM »

That's re-assuring. My mind must be preoccupied with the ice-storm we're having here in Toronto today - I was mixing-up where the two profiles were.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up