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Author Topic: Stormy Weather...  (Read 13154 times)

RSL

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Re: Stormy Weather...
« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2018, 03:19:06 pm »

But then I started thinking about point-and-shoots and iPhones, they're pretty easy to use. :)

According to Brooks Jensen, that's what's killing fine art photography. Anybody -- just anybody -- can do it nowadays.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Stormy Weather...
« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2018, 03:52:48 pm »

According to Brooks Jensen, that's what's killing fine art photography. Anybody -- just anybody -- can do it nowadays.

Not only fine art photography, even movies. Some Hollywood directors are nowadays shooting full-length motion pictures with iphones. :o
At the same time, lot of crap is still generated by expensive dSLR's.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Stormy Weather...
« Reply #42 on: April 14, 2018, 08:06:36 pm »

It's a little hard for me to believe that anyone smart enough to operate a camera could defend Donald Trump.

Heeeyy!? Are you trying to insult my camera skills? ;)

Rory

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Re: Stormy Weather...
« Reply #43 on: April 14, 2018, 11:02:57 pm »

Heeeyy!? Are you trying to insult my camera skills? ;)

If the lens fits ...
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Rob C

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Re: Stormy Weather...
« Reply #44 on: April 15, 2018, 04:59:24 am »

If the lens fits ...

Surely you meant the lens cap?

;-)

Rory

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Re: Stormy Weather...
« Reply #45 on: April 15, 2018, 09:34:56 am »

Surely you meant the lens cap?

;-)

Good point.  ;*)
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Stormy Weather...
« Reply #46 on: April 15, 2018, 01:57:01 pm »

...utterly despicable decisions....

One man's "despicable" is another man's reasonable. You don't really want Captain Sully to go to jail, do you?

JoeKitchen

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Re: Stormy Weather...
« Reply #47 on: April 19, 2018, 09:16:19 pm »

According to Brooks Jensen, that's what's killing fine art photography. Anybody -- just anybody -- can do it nowadays.

When the Brownie came out, people said the same thing too. 
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Stormy Weather...
« Reply #48 on: April 19, 2018, 09:29:20 pm »

When the Brownie came out, people said the same thing too. 

Thus one has to keep up with the times. Which means, currently, Instagram :)

JoeKitchen

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Re: Stormy Weather...
« Reply #49 on: April 20, 2018, 02:13:35 pm »

Talk about Stormy Weather! 

Dems File Suit ...

Reading through this, I have to wonder exactly what are they thinking?  Just when so many have forgotten about the internal emails and all the in-fighting amongst the party before the convention and Hillary's mistreatment of Bernie and the DNC not only allowing it but being a part of it, they are going to bring it all back into the lime light before the midterms.   ???

Considering there is still no proof of Russian collusion, I feel like this is going to have a more negative impact on the Dems then Trump from both highlighting bad acts committed by the DNC, again, and making them look like even bigger sore losers. 
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RSL

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Re: Stormy Weather...
« Reply #50 on: April 20, 2018, 03:18:55 pm »

You gotta understand, Joe, that these are not the most intelligent people around. A lot of them are heavily credentialed but that's not the same thing as intelligence.

But I'd say: "Good on you guys. Keep it up. The midterm election's not that far off, and your stupidity will have a salutary effect on the outcome of that election."
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Stormy Weather...
« Reply #51 on: April 20, 2018, 04:42:22 pm »

You gotta understand, Joe, that these are not the most intelligent people around. A lot of them are heavily credentialed but that's not the same thing as intelligence.

But I'd say: "Good on you guys. Keep it up. The midterm election's not that far off, and your stupidity will have a salutary effect on the outcome of that election."

Russ, I could make sense of this if it was filed in December or January as a way to rile up the base for the primaries.  But for the actual elections where the general electorate, aka the non-wing-nuts, makes the decisions. 

The only way this actually makes sense is if Mueller suddenly and miraculously finds clear evidence of collusion, after more then a year of searching, otherwise they are going to loose the suit against Trump. 

Since I doubt Russia or Wikileaks are going to show up to court, I guess the Dems will automatically wins those, but I doubt anyone will really look at that as a victory. 

Oh my.  What a PR gamble. 
« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 04:49:02 pm by JoeKitchen »
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James Clark

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Re: Stormy Weather...
« Reply #52 on: April 20, 2018, 06:24:21 pm »

The only way this actually makes sense is if Mueller suddenly and miraculously finds clear evidence of collusion, after more then a year of searching, otherwise they are going to loose the suit against Trump. 

I think you're looking at it from the wrong perspective.  I doubt "winning" the suit is even a primary objective.   Also, I don't think that it's at all clear that there's no evidence of collusion, and I don't think the suit depends on a sudden miraculous finding of such by Mueller. FWIW, my personal opinion is that it will be hard to prove collusion by Trump himself, but substantially easier to do so for some of his cronies.  I also think that, even if there is evidence of collusion by Trump himself, there's no reason at all that that would be public knowledge at this point, but I digress...

Anyway, I think the actual goal is a bit more strategic.  It's not at all clear that Mueller is going to be allowed to complete the investigation, and it's even less clear that even in the case of a finding of wrongdoing by a president that Mueller can hand down an indictment.  Rather, it's my understanding that he has to refer over to the House, and we all know where that will go, regardless of what the report says.  It's not even clear, in fact, that any report, regardless of the findings, must be made public.  Literally, Mueller could find direct evidence that Trump committed scores of illegal acts, and there is potentially no Constitutional authority to prosecute (though I don't necessarily agree with that conclusion, there seem to be at least 2 DoJ opinions that support it) nor is there any legal mandate that Congress make the conclusions public.

The filing of the suit allows, theoretically, for Trump to be deposed.  The suit allows other relevant evidence to be entered into the public record.  We know a certain percentage of the population won't be moved, because no matter what a conservative might have done, somehow "the liberals" are worse.  (We can call those people RUSSians ;) )  We know that another certain percentage will believe that Trump is a full on Ruskie no matter what the evidence shows.   Then there are people like me (and I think you) that will make their decisions based on whatever evidence they are allowed to see.  THOSE are the people this is aimed at, and those are the people that this might make a difference to, and the people who will make a difference in November.  I think it's likely, in fact, that the timing of this is designed specifically to have those depos, records and evidence in the public sphere just around election time, or at least to keep the issues in the public eye until then even if Mueller is shut down.

So, no, I don't think it's stupid at all.  (Stupid would be when your own guy gets wasted and starts blabbing about how he's gonna collab with Vladimir to get your opponent ;)  )

« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 06:30:45 pm by James Clark »
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Farmer

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Re: Stormy Weather...
« Reply #53 on: April 20, 2018, 07:08:59 pm »

I agree with James.  This is all about gaining access to information and people and making it public (including deposing people so if it can be proven later that they lied they can be prosecuted).  It also keeps a spotlight on things like the current investigation, so Trump and the GOP can't push it out of the news cycle so easily.  It may even provide a means to obtain details of the investigation if it ends up being shelved.
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Phil Brown

JoeKitchen

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Re: Stormy Weather...
« Reply #54 on: April 20, 2018, 07:13:31 pm »

I think you're looking at it from the wrong perspective.  I doubt "winning" the suit is even a primary objective.   Also, I don't think that it's at all clear that there's no evidence of collusion, and I don't think the suit depends on a sudden miraculous finding of such by Mueller. FWIW, my personal opinion is that it will be hard to prove collusion by Trump himself, but substantially easier to do so for some of his cronies.  I also think that, even if there is evidence of collusion by Trump himself, there's no reason at all that that would be public knowledge at this point, but I digress...

Anyway, I think the actual goal is a bit more strategic.  It's not at all clear that Mueller is going to be allowed to complete the investigation, and it's even less clear that even in the case of a finding of wrongdoing by a president that Mueller can hand down an indictment.  Rather, it's my understanding that he has to refer over to the House, and we all know where that will go, regardless of what the report says.  It's not even clear, in fact, that any report, regardless of the findings, must be made public.  Literally, Mueller could find direct evidence that Trump committed scores of illegal acts, and there is potentially no Constitutional authority to prosecute (though I don't necessarily agree with that conclusion, there seem to be at least 2 DoJ opinions that support it) nor is there any legal mandate that Congress make the conclusions public.

The filing of the suit allows, theoretically, for Trump to be deposed.  The suit allows other relevant evidence to be entered into the public record.  We know a certain percentage of the population won't be moved, because no matter what a conservative might have done, somehow "the liberals" are worse.  (We can call those people RUSSians ;) )  We know that another certain percentage will believe that Trump is a full on Ruskie no matter what the evidence shows.   Then there are people like me (and I think you) that will make their decisions based on whatever evidence they are allowed to see.  THOSE are the people this is aimed at, and those are the people that this might make a difference to, and the people who will make a difference in November.  I think it's likely, in fact, that the timing of this is designed specifically to have those depos, records and evidence in the public sphere just around election time, or at least to keep the issues in the public eye until then even if Mueller is shut down.

So, no, I don't think it's stupid at all.  (Stupid would be when your own guy gets wasted and starts blabbing about how he's gonna collab with Vladimir to get your opponent ;)  )

Those are all good thoughts, but it all depends on compelling evidence being brought to light.  This is uncertain, and unlikely at this point.  It's been more then a year and if Mueller had something compelling on collusion, it would have been leaked by now, considering how leaky his ship has been.   

(That, or the extra legal pressure will make Trump break and go off the rails, of which would have worse reproductions considering he is commander and chief of the largest army in the world.  This would certainly sink him, but more then likely take down some Dems along the way.)

But what is certain is that this suit opens closed wounds of the Democrats.  Plus, if they loose or fail to show compelling evidence that wins over the majority, it makes them look like even bigger sore losers. 

It's a gamble, and not a very well thought out one.  They really need a Hail Mary to pull this off. 
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Schewe

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Re: Stormy Weather...
« Reply #55 on: April 20, 2018, 07:45:05 pm »

It's been more then a year and if Mueller had something compelling on collusion, it would have been leaked by now, considering how leaky his ship has been.   

Mueller's ship hasn't leaked...the only "leaks" have been people who have been interviewed...and the only hints of what Mueller may have found are found in the unrelated portions of court filings related to various charges against various people–which is very far from being finished.

There are still people who likely have exposure like Kushner (what was he thinking meeting with a banker under US sanctions and why did he want a secret Russian back channel at Russia's embassy?) and Donny Jr. (who did actually try to collude and we still have no idea what came of that meeting).

So, no, you have no friggin' clue what Mueller may or may not have...and these things take time. Look how long Watergate took: The complete Watergate timeline (it took longer than you realize)

And that's just The Russian Thingie and doesn't count the whole Michael Cohen thingie which seems to have The Big Cheeto particularly vexed :~)
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Farmer

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Re: Stormy Weather...
« Reply #56 on: April 20, 2018, 08:00:27 pm »

Yeah, Mueller has been so leaky that Trump didn't know his lawyer was about to get raided...

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Phil Brown

JoeKitchen

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Re: Stormy Weather...
« Reply #57 on: April 20, 2018, 08:02:42 pm »

Mueller's ship hasn't leaked...the only "leaks" have been people who have been interviewed...and the only hints of what Mueller may have found are found in the unrelated portions of court filings related to various charges against various people–which is very far from being finished.

There are still people who likely have exposure like Kushner (what was he thinking meeting with a banker under US sanctions and why did he want a secret Russian back channel at Russia's embassy?) and Donny Jr. (who did actually try to collude and we still have no idea what came of that meeting).

So, no, you have no friggin' clue what Mueller may or may not have...and these things take time. Look how long Watergate took: The complete Watergate timeline (it took longer than you realize)

And that's just The Russian Thingie and doesn't count the whole Michael Cohen thingie which seems to have The Big Cheeto particularly vexed :~)

Sure, but that has nothing to do with this lawsuit. 

I think Slobo brought up changing the subject when you know you are loosing in another thread. 

The reality is, as it stands in the here and now, this does more damage to the Dems then Trump.  For this to work, the Dems need compelling evidence, which does not exist or is public yet.  It is a gamble that only works if, and only if, Mueller actually finds evidence on collusion.  Evidence of any other unrelated crime will have no influence what so ever since it will not be admissible in court. 

Even if they manage to bring down associates, it still does not touch Trump.  How do I know this? 

From experience with Mayor Street in Philly (who I despised).  Every person in his administration was corrupt and proven to be so in court, yet he still got elected, and some still talk favorably about him. 

Plus, look at the bigger picture, the Dems are making the same mistake that Hillary did.  They have nothing to sell except that Trump is bad. 

Name one policy fight they have won.  Immigration, nope.  The Schumer Shutdown failed miserably.  Tax reform, nope.  It still got passed and more and more people are finding out it actually helps them, especially with a growing self employed economy.  Gun control, nope.  Even if the Reps are against gun control, Trump is for it, negating any counter the Dems could create against Trump. 

PS, and on all this non-policy related bad PR, it was shown in a study published on CNN a couple of months ago that most citizens don't need to like a politician to vote for him or her.  So long as he or she does a good job they will vote for him, proving what I have always thought, that morality in politics is nothing but a talking point for both sides. 
« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 09:02:06 pm by JoeKitchen »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Stormy Weather...
« Reply #58 on: April 20, 2018, 08:16:15 pm »

... We know a certain percentage of the population won't be moved, because no matter what a conservative might have done, somehow "the liberals" are worse.  (We can call those people RUSSians ;) ) ...

Finally something we agree on, James ;)

Nice one: Russians :)

Then again, perhaps "the certain percentage of the population" simply knows they didn't vote for Trump because of whatever Russians did or didn't do, of Facebook did or didn't do, but because they wanted to (and because "'the liberals' are worse").

Schewe

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Re: Stormy Weather...
« Reply #59 on: April 21, 2018, 12:46:51 am »

Name one policy fight they have won.

Uh, healthcare? While the mandate bit the dust, the rest remains because, well, the Republicans couldn't bring themselves to repeal and replace.

And tell me again about that spending bill Trump signed? Instead of a CR, Congress actually passed a bipartisan spending bill (yeah, shocked me too).

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I think Slobo brought up changing the subject when you know you are loosing in another thread.

Pot, meet kettle...
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