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Author Topic: The PR war  (Read 7462 times)

KLaban

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Re: The PR war
« Reply #40 on: April 17, 2018, 07:37:59 AM »

Do any current bodies offer a split-image focus screen?  The lack this is one reason I quit using (Leica and Zeiss) manual focus lenses with my former Canon bodies.  I wasn't convinced using third party focus screens either.  Now I use Fujifilm cameras and am mostly pleased.  I still miss a split-image screen though, but love the aperture ring.

Leica M series.

;-)
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Mike D. B.

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Re: The PR war
« Reply #41 on: April 17, 2018, 07:53:15 AM »

Keith, for years I shot with an M3 and only two lenses: my all-time favorite, the dual range 50/2 and a 35/2 with glasses (ugly but fine).  After my switch to digital (Canon), I sold all analog gear.  Big mistake, but I didn't recognize it at the time.  I missed a Leica M and bought an M8.  Never liked it and had difficulties with the white balance (often went completely screwy!).  Sold it.  Since I'm using Fujifilm, I'm (more or less) content and enjoy the proper aperture ring immensely.

No Keith, no more M for me.  Maybe if I hit the lottery (I'll buy one for Rob too!).  :)
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Kind regards, Mike

KLaban

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Re: The PR war
« Reply #42 on: April 17, 2018, 09:33:59 AM »

Keith, for years I shot with an M3 and only two lenses: my all-time favorite, the dual range 50/2 and a 35/2 with glasses (ugly but fine).  After my switch to digital (Canon), I sold all analog gear.  Big mistake, but I didn't recognize it at the time.  I missed a Leica M and bought an M8.  Never liked it and had difficulties with the white balance (often went completely screwy!).  Sold it.  Since I'm using Fujifilm, I'm (more or less) content and enjoy the proper aperture ring immensely.

No Keith, no more M for me.  Maybe if I hit the lottery (I'll buy one for Rob too!).  :)

Hi Mike, my post was of course tongue-in-cheek, hence the wink. The M series isn't for everybody, in fact it's probably only for the very discerning few ;-)

I'd never try to convince anyone of the suitability of any camera system or suggest that buying anything other than an adequate system for need or pleasure is a futile exercise: if they want it, need it, then good on 'em.

Getting back to buying new or used, I never liked tying up more money than I needed to. As an example, when buying into Hasselblad digital medium format I had the choice of buying a new body at £16,000 or an as new body with less than 200 clicks on the clock at £6,200 complete with warranty from Hasselblad UK. 
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NancyP

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Re: The PR war
« Reply #43 on: April 17, 2018, 09:36:53 AM »

Canon 1DX and presumably 1DX II has some eight or so interchangeable screen options, including a split screen, and I think that all are calibrated to work seamlessly with the metering system.
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hogloff

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Re: The PR war
« Reply #44 on: April 17, 2018, 09:49:12 AM »

So, you are suggesting that I must change my interests and techniques simply to comply with new technology? Let me assure you that I led a very useful career without af or digital, doing things then, that I wanted to do, that many if not most photographers today, armed with their Łber expensive digital nursemaids toys will never ever get the opportunity to do. I need no lectures from you about catching that "special moment" shot. Perhaps you could stick a copy of your message onto HC-B's grave, too.

Talk about putting the cart in front of the poor old horse!

Af has brought one positive into my life: it helps my old eyes. Against that, the fact that dslr screens are incredibly poor compared with those of film cameras of similar status up the totem pole. The fact that my digital Nikons do not incorporate a split-image screen is incredibly annoying, because with it, I would not, today, need af at all. I know this for a fact because I still own a never-used-again film camera: an F3. I sometimes pull it out of retirement, stick a lens into it and just gaze with sadness through its pentaprism... like youth, a quality gone for ever.

Glad those old cameras worked out for you...but you should realize that many photographers are also making a good living and many more enthusiasts making great photos with today's high tech cameras...and they aren't all snotty nosed techy's that don't know real photography as you seem to imply.

If you want to stay in yesteryear...that's fine, but do respect others that enjoy the new technologies in today's cameras and are creating some amazing photos with these new toys.
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Rob C

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Re: The PR war
« Reply #45 on: April 17, 2018, 09:53:16 AM »

SLR AF systems don't see the focus screen, but much light is abducted by passing THROUGH  the main mirror into a cavity in the bottom of the camera where it is tortured and expires.

Edmund

Yes, AFAIK there is a secondary, small mirror used to work af, the poor positioning of which causes the problems of front or rear focussing.

But isn't it also something to do with light travelling backwards through the eyepiece and screwing exposure somewhat? If the screen type makes no difference to that problem, then why don't they simply use old-type screens and thus, even if without a split-image device, manual focus would be more accurate as long as the screen was properly mounted?

I never use any af point other than the central one; that is seldom the main locus of my subject, but as I use only that one central area, a split-image would serve me just as well for the times it is the main area of interest, and be very useful with my non-af optics as mentioned above. A focus-confirmation light is not a convenient alternative because it lies outwith the image, on my cameras, at least.

Using alternative focusing areas of the af system would slow me down a lot. I don't use tripods anymore, and I can't think trying to change from one af zone to another is a rapid way to work. Yes, in some cases zone focussing is perfectly good enough. That said, I supose one could pre-set an af system so as to force one to make a series of shots with the main subject in a set position: a series of faces all at the magical third, for example...
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 09:56:49 AM by Rob C »
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Rob C

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Re: The PR war
« Reply #46 on: April 17, 2018, 10:08:24 AM »

Glad those old cameras worked out for you...but you should realize that many photographers are also making a good living and many more enthusiasts making great photos with today's high tech cameras...and they aren't all snotty nosed techy's that don't know real photography as you seem to imply.

If you want to stay in yesteryear...that's fine, but do respect others that enjoy the new technologies in today's cameras and are creating some amazing photos with these new toys.


Respect might start at home, don't you think?

"Ones that donít get anything out of new tech are ones that donít embrace the technology and just get stuck in the good old days way of things."

I quote you, above. And to counter your excitement over new snappers, I referred to HC-B who, apparently, must have been really compromised and held back from greatness by his lack of now-contemporary tools. You could toss in Salgado, too, who was nothing before he went digital...

Rob

hogloff

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Re: The PR war
« Reply #47 on: April 17, 2018, 10:32:53 AM »


Respect might start at home, don't you think?

"Ones that donít get anything out of new tech are ones that donít embrace the technology and just get stuck in the good old days way of things."

I quote you, above. And to counter your excitement over new snappers, I referred to HC-B who, apparently, must have been really compromised and held back from greatness by his lack of now-contemporary tools. You could toss in Salgado, too, who was nothing before he went digital...

Rob

Right...throw in the old relics to make your points. Wonder if those old relics would still be shooting with their old relic gear today? Doubt it. After all, wasn't HC-B using one of the most advanced systems for his time? Why did he not just use a brownie?

Rob if your photo needs are met with old cameras, that's fine, but please don't ridicule others that meet their photo needs with newer tech...after all not everyone wants to shoot their images with always focusing square in the middle if the image.
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NancyP

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Re: The PR war
« Reply #48 on: April 17, 2018, 12:22:57 PM »

The photographer's most important equipment is the central nervous system (Brain and Eye).

I will say that Live view Magnify is a great tool for critical focus, a lot easier on the eyes than a loupe and ground glass. Look, no hood!
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Rob C

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Re: The PR war
« Reply #49 on: April 17, 2018, 02:02:05 PM »

Right...throw in the old relics to make your points. Wonder if those old relics would still be shooting with their old relic gear today? Doubt it. After all, wasn't HC-B using one of the most advanced systems for his time? Why did he not just use a brownie?

Rob if your photo needs are met with old cameras, that's fine, but please don't ridicule others that meet their photo needs with newer tech...after all not everyone wants to shoot their images with always focusing square in the middle if the image.


And to think that I'd imagined that sort of repetitive reasoning was confined to the Coffee Corner!

Over 'n' out.

hogloff

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Re: The PR war
« Reply #50 on: April 17, 2018, 03:14:00 PM »


And to think that I'd imagined that sort of repetitive reasoning was confined to the Coffee Corner!

Over 'n' out.

More like Down 'n' out.  ;D
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Ivo_B

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Re: The PR war
« Reply #51 on: April 17, 2018, 03:34:48 PM »

I met a charming Belgian familly last weekend.

Their 2 teenage girls were using consumer Nikon DSLRS and the parents consumer Canon DSLRs.

I asked them why it was the case.

Their answer was ďNikon is bankrupt, thatís why we bought new Canon DSLRsĒ.

Intrigued, I asked them how they knew about Nikonís bankruptcy.

Their answer ďthe sales person told usĒ.

I am starting to understand the kind of ethics Canonís surprisingly good business results are resulting from... ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

I'm pretty sure the Belgian family went to a Dutch photo gear market.

Tsss, Dutchmen......


 8) :o
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: The PR war
« Reply #52 on: April 18, 2018, 07:56:42 AM »

More data about the world press award usage ratio, this time with a historical perspective.

It does appear that the technological leadership of Nikon is starting to translate into actual numbers as more and more press photographers naturally migrate towards the better tools. I believe that the stabilized 24-70mm f2.8 did play a role here as well since it has been the only rugged pro zoom with VR available for a few years now. Superior battery life is a key characteristics too. Overall it appears that Nikon has been delivering exactly what the pros needed.

Total Units: 96 36 44 38
2018 2017 2016 2015
Nikon-2018-52.0%; 2017-30.6%; 2016-27.2%; 2015-18.4%
Canon-2018-30.2%; 2017-55.5%;2016-63.6%; 2015-60.5%
Fujifilm-2018-5.2%; 2017-8.3%; 2016-2.3%; 2015-0.0%
Sony - 2018- 5.2%; 2017- 0.0%: 2016-2.3%; 2015-0.0%

Odds are that Sony will start to increase in the coming years as Nikon peaks and Canon continues to decrease, but that may take a few years. The current Sony generation still doesn't seem to offer the level of physical ruggedness needed for critical applications away from home.

It will be interesting to see whether Nikon's dismal marketing/sales dpt is able to leverage their de facto superior position/product line up towards consumers while remaining ethical. I am wondering whether they are even aware that their main competitor keeps spreading rumors about their upcoming "bankruptcy"... I wouldn't be surprised at all if they had no clue...

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: April 18, 2018, 11:05:49 PM by BernardLanguillier »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: The PR war
« Reply #53 on: May 14, 2018, 09:53:49 PM »

I wonder how the sales guys who have been pushing Canon boxes will share with their customers the information below:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/2953539022/nikon-restructuring-and-strong-d850-sales-lead-to-8x-increase-in-annual-profit

My educated guess is that... they won't...  ;D

Cheers,
Bernard

BJL

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Re: The PR war
« Reply #54 on: May 14, 2018, 10:10:37 PM »

I wonder how the sales guys who have been pushing Canon boxes will share with their customers the information below:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/2953539022/nikon-restructuring-and-strong-d850-sales-lead-to-8x-increase-in-annual-profit

My educated guess is that... they won't...  ;D

Cheers,
Bernard
Decent news for Nikon, but exaggerated by that article: it was mostly cost cutting, with reduced revenues but profit margin up by 3.5% from 0.5% to a still modest 4%. The ratio of profit margins is a nonsensical measure: if it had been 0.1% last year, the same +3.5% would have been a 36X improvement
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: The PR war
« Reply #55 on: May 15, 2018, 01:32:48 AM »

Decent news for Nikon, but exaggerated by that article: it was mostly cost cutting, with reduced revenues but profit margin up by 3.5% from 0.5% to a still modest 4%. The ratio of profit margins is a nonsensical measure: if it had been 0.1% last year, the same +3.5% would have been a 36X improvement

Yes, I agree.

But this is very very far from a company about to go bankrupt.

Cheers,
Bernard

Martin Kristiansen

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Re: The PR war
« Reply #56 on: May 15, 2018, 03:39:47 AM »

Yes, I agree.

But this is very very far from a company about to go bankrupt.

Cheers,
Bernard

Yep, and that is wonderful news.
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Rob C

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Re: The PR war
« Reply #57 on: May 15, 2018, 05:42:41 AM »

Yep, and that is wonderful news.


Ab-so-lute-ly!

Rob

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The PR war
« Reply #58 on: May 15, 2018, 06:00:09 AM »

... The ratio of profit margins is a nonsensical measure...

Ab-so-lute-ly!

Say the profit was growing from 1 cent to a whopping 8 cents on a billion dollar revenue... they would portray that as a 700% profit growth  ;)

Rob C

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Re: The PR war
« Reply #59 on: May 15, 2018, 06:59:34 AM »

Ab-so-lute-ly!

Say the profit was growing from 1 cent to a whopping 8 cents on a billion dollar revenue... they would portray that as a 700% profit growth  ;)


I love a personal datum line!

:-)
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