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Author Topic: Picture Window Pro 8 available for testing.  (Read 2009 times)

Jorge M.

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Picture Window Pro 8 available for testing.
« on: March 27, 2018, 02:29:30 AM »

PWP 8 Alpha version available for testing. Thought some may be interested in trying it out for TIFF files.

http://www.dl-c.com/PWP_Download.html
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Telecaster

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Re: Picture Window Pro 8 available for testing.
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2018, 03:45:36 PM »

Wow, I thought Jonathan had stopped updating PWP. Guess not! I used it alongside Photoshop for many years, and prefered it for many things.

-Dave-
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Rhossydd

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Re: Picture Window Pro 8 available for testing.
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2018, 06:35:24 PM »

PWP 7 has been available as a free download for a while now.
Despite having been updated to 64bit and capable of using multiple cores, it's GUI still looks like something from Windows 95 and it's not too easy to use on a high res monitor with it's tiny buttons.
Still a capable image editor buried under the GUI though.
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Jorge M.

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Re: Picture Window Pro 8 available for testing.
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2018, 06:56:44 PM »

PWP 7 has been available as a free download for a while now.
Despite having been updated to 64bit and capable of using multiple cores, it's GUI still looks like something from Windows 95 and it's not too easy to use on a high res monitor with it's tiny buttons.
Still a capable image editor buried under the GUI though.

That has changed a bit in PWP 8, what I found very cumbersome in PWP 7 was the multiple windows open after applying the transformations, etc. The new version has a more standardized workflow. The smaller icons donít bother me and most of the tools have nice sliders that give plenty of fine tuning control. Overall I hope it will appeal to more users than the previous version.
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one iota

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Re: Picture Window Pro 8 available for testing.
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2018, 11:25:31 PM »

I cut my first post processing teeth using PWP way back. I now also use Capture One and DxO.

Its "windows 95" appearance and simple interface belies the power of this software.

I've started testing 8 and I'm even more impressed with what it is able to deliver. What Jonathan Sachs (The Lotus 123 man) has done is make a tool that puts the photographer in charge of all the processes rather than "mysterious stuff happening behind the scenes". The latest version no longer does raw conversions so importing a TIFF file is required. The benefit with that is that for instance you can incorporate lens corrections and noise control from say DxO and then complete the processing all the way to and including printing in PWP.

If you want to learn about processing and what happens behind the curtain in other apps just take a look at PWP's Help section...mind blowing! It's an education.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2018, 02:26:25 AM by one iota »
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Mahn England

Lundberg02

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Re: Picture Window Pro 8 available for testing.
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2018, 11:59:33 PM »

Windows only, what a shame
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vjbelle

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Re: Picture Window Pro 8 available for testing.
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2018, 07:38:46 AM »

PWP incorporates 'Color Mechanic' which is no longer available as a stand alone plugin.  Color Mechanic, to me, is the most powerful and versatile color editor I have ever used.  That alone is worth using PWP.

Victor
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one iota

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Re: Picture Window Pro 8 available for testing.
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2018, 05:03:27 AM »

That has changed a bit in PWP 8, what I found very cumbersome in PWP 7 was the multiple windows open after applying the transformations, etc. The new version has a more standardized workflow. The smaller icons donít bother me and most of the tools have nice sliders that give plenty of fine tuning control. Overall I hope it will appeal to more users than the previous version.

Indeed I hope that those who can get behind this effort, by Jonathan, do and contribute: http://www.jonathansachs.me/phpbbBB3/viewforum.php?f=11

The uniqueness of PWP is that it eschews the concept of layers imposed by Adobe and emulated by others (C1 and On one). Instead (and here is the challenge) we are presented with a workflow process now refined by this version...at the risk of hyperbole...masterful.

It disciplines the process.

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Mahn England

Rhossydd

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Re: Picture Window Pro 8 available for testing.
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2018, 05:40:55 AM »

The uniqueness of PWP is that it eschews the concept of layers imposed by Adobe
I think that's it's big stumbling block. I think the vast majority of users find layers hugely useful. Abandoning that functionality puts PWP into a tiny niche.
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one iota

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Re: Picture Window Pro 8 available for testing.
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2018, 07:37:15 AM »

I think that's it's big stumbling block. I think the vast majority of users find layers hugely useful. Abandoning that functionality puts PWP into a tiny niche.

Well PWP never adopted it and therefore hasn't abandoned it. Of course some people find the layers modality useful others don't. As to the "big stumbling block", "vast" and the "hugely" superlatives I think that an open mind would accept that there are other paths...none of which are compulsory but which are legitimate options.
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Mahn England

Rhossydd

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Re: Picture Window Pro 8 available for testing.
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2018, 07:48:03 AM »

Well PWP never adopted it and therefore hasn't abandoned it.
Failure to adopt what users expect and want is not an asset in software development.
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Telecaster

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Re: Picture Window Pro 8 available for testing.
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2018, 03:32:15 PM »

I like that Jonathan does things his own way. He doesn't need to care about competing with Photoshop, etc.

Personally I find layers encourage me to over-process. These days I'm using Affinity Photo, which is kind of a Photoshop clone, on my iPad. So while it has layers I don't use 'em.

-Dave-
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fredjeang2

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Re: Picture Window Pro 8 available for testing.
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2018, 03:39:17 PM »

I like that Jonathan does things his own way. He doesn't need to care about competing with Photoshop, etc.

Personally I find layers encourage me to over-process. These days I'm using Affinity Photo, which is kind of a Photoshop clone, on my iPad. So while it has layers I don't use 'em.

-Dave-
There are different needs for different purposes. I tend to agree with you that in some cases, layer incitate to over-process
And not always necesary.
But as Rhossydd said, the lack of layers limits a lot the range of potential users. If layers are disponible, we can or not use them but there is the choice.
Layer based workflow is inescapable in many areas of photography but also key for a branche of digital artists who use photography as only a part of a much wider process, it is not photography any longuer in the strick sense but digital imagery, so to say.
At least 2 high-end motion softwares could be considered as layer based, Baselight and Mistika, and in compositing we find the After Effect approach also based on layers. So many many people are manipulating layers at one point or another in their workflows.
In my case I never ever use a Lightroom kind of software because I don't shoot Raw but 100% layer based PS in PSB or EXR. (Less) and a few other softwares to roundtrip with PS, but I'm not doing stricktly photography. It really depends on the needs and if someone never uses layers, it's fine they have alternative options.
Affinity Photo is quite good by the way and a serious PS alternative.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2018, 03:46:26 PM by fredjeang2 »
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Telecaster

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Re: Picture Window Pro 8 available for testing.
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2018, 04:28:56 PM »

There are different needs for different purposes. I tend to agree with you that in some cases, layer incitate to over-process
And not always necesary.
But as Rhossydd said, the lack of layers limits a lot the range of potential users. If layers are disponible, we can or not use them but there is the choice.
Layer based workflow is inescapable in many areas of photography but also key for a branche of digital artists who use photography as only a part of a much wider process, it is not photography any longuer in the strick sense but digital imagery, so to say.
At least 2 high-end motion softwares could be considered as layer based, Baselight and Mistika, and in compositing we find the After Effect approach also based on layers. So many many people are manipulating layers at one point or another in their workflows.
In my case I never ever use a Lightroom kind of software because I don't shoot Raw but 100% layer based PS in PSB or EXR. (Less) and a few other softwares to roundtrip with PS, but I'm not doing stricktly photography. It really depends on the needs and if someone never uses layers, it's fine they have alternative options.
Affinity Photo is quite good by the way and a serious PS alternative.

Right-o. My friend K uses PS for some of her photo-based graphics work. Heavily layered stuff. PWP isn't suitable for what she does. But if you have a linear, "first I do this and it's done, then I do that and it's doneÖ" approach, PWP works well. You can even backtrack so long as you keep your intermediate processing stages saved or open.

-Dave-
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one iota

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Re: Picture Window Pro 8 available for testing.
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2018, 01:16:16 AM »

I think that's it's big stumbling block. I think the vast majority of users find layers hugely useful. Abandoning that functionality puts PWP into a tiny niche.

I agree...its a "big" stumbling block to commercial success. However that is probably not the aim. There are other ways of looking at the world, thinking about it, capturing  it, processing it and expressing it. Lets not be beholden to the normal!
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Mahn England

Rhossydd

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Re: Picture Window Pro 8 available for testing.
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2018, 01:33:17 AM »

Lets not be beholden to the normal!
The reason layer working is the "normal" is because it's so flexible and productive. Why work in an unproductive, inflexible way ? It stifles creativity.
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one iota

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Re: Picture Window Pro 8 available for testing.
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2018, 02:37:04 AM »

The reason layer working is the "normal" is because it's so flexible and productive. Why work in an unproductive, inflexible way ? It stifles creativity.

For a start you've cherry picked what I wrote!!

You call it "normal". I also call it: "just another way to get there".

I contributed in this backwater called "Other Raw Converters" because based on my experience I felt I had something to offer to this thread.

Whereas Ôt seems you have come only with strict judgement.

Seriously what's your problem?...do you want conformity or diversity. So in the photographic analog of the Matrix (red pill or blue pill): "Is it my way or the highway"?

Saying that another approach stifles creativity could be construed as arrogance.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 03:31:34 AM by one iota »
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Mahn England
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