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Author Topic: Photography Meaning  (Read 4951 times)

Brad P

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Photography Meaning
« on: March 27, 2018, 12:36:03 am »

We can all pretty much agree, can’t we?  Photography can be divided in two dimensions (for the moment), photo journalism and photo art. 

Photo journalism captures things as they are. Photo jouralism is the best we can do with what we have at the moment with the things we have, and with the best or worst situations.

Photo art is art.  Muck it up or make it shine.  It conveys a message and/or makes the author or viewers feel good, thoughtful or something else. 

Inviting some thoughts on the meaning of it all. 


« Last Edit: March 27, 2018, 07:43:19 am by Brad Paulson »
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landscapephoto

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Re: Photography Meaning
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2018, 06:43:36 am »

Beyond journalism and art, there is also technical and product photography. I believe that these are the source of income of many pro photographers. I know of a lady who does little more all day than take photographs of skin lesions in a hospital and of a man who does little more than photography objects on a rotating table for mail order web sites.
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Otto Phocus

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Re: Photography Meaning
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2018, 06:55:07 am »

I don't think it is possible to accurately characterize photography in to the "dimensions" you wrote. 
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Rob C

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Re: Photography Meaning
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2018, 06:57:14 am »

Beyond journalism and art, there is also technical and product photography. I believe that these are the source of income of many pro photographers. I know of a lady who does little more all day than take photographs of skin lesions in a hospital and of a man who does little more than photography objects on a rotating table for mail order web sites.

Absolutely, and industrial photography may or may not be photojournalistic in nature; photography is so wide an occupation that it's almost impossible to make sweeping statements about what it is or might be.

Rob

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Photography Meaning
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2018, 08:43:53 am »

What about family snapshots?
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Photography Meaning
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2018, 09:37:59 am »

I like Michael Johnston's (from Online Photographer) take on this, i.e., photography is a very big tent and that there co-exist many different kinds of photography.

I guess you can lump different "branches" into something you could label "documentary", e.g., family snaps, product, vacation, photojournalism, but there are many times when even these sub-categories can be more than just simple documentary work. Within categories there would probably be lots of exceptions.

In the painting world, there are similar categories, folk art, fine art, etc. They can be useful when labelling different sections of a gallery, it just means being aware of cross-over work. This happens in music too.
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RSL

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Re: Photography Meaning
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2018, 10:54:06 am »

Painting is a very big tent too. People paint houses, fences, pictures. . . An attempt at expression with any visual medium is called "art." If it's a personal expression it's called "fine art."
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Jonathan Cross

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Re: Photography Meaning
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2018, 12:07:35 pm »

Some time ago I heard someone's opinion that paintings before the year 1900 told stories, and after that paintings asked questions. I do not know if I agree or disagree but is there any relevance to photography?
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Jonathan in UK

elliot_n

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Re: Photography Meaning
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2018, 12:10:13 pm »

All photography is documentary. That is the nature of photography.
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Rob C

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Re: Photography Meaning
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2018, 01:19:24 pm »

All photography is documentary. That is the nature of photography.


Depends how far you are willing to subvert meaning.

Tim Lookingbill

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Re: Photography Meaning
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2018, 03:16:54 pm »

For some photography can function as  a cathartic experience as a way to slow down and smell the flowers or take in reality and appreciate one's life and miraculous existence on a very tiny ball in the middle of a universe that wants to destroy us.

In a sense photography can be a philosophy of mindfulness. A religion without confining rules and laws?
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RSL

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Re: Photography Meaning
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2018, 04:21:33 pm »

All photography is documentary. That is the nature of photography.

All communication is documentary if that's the way you choose to look at it. Check Eddie Guest's "It Takes a Heap o' Livin" for pretty straight documentation. Then check Dylan Thomas's "Fern Hill." That's documentation too, but it's also the kind of art that can jolt your soul. Same kind o' English words in a different order. Some can do that with photography too.
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elliot_n

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Re: Photography Meaning
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2018, 04:38:49 pm »

All communication is documentary if that's the way you choose to look at it.

That is not how I choose to look at it. Those poems are not documentary.

All photography is documentary to the extent that it necessarily has an indexical relationship to the world which it depicts. Like a footprint in the snow. A high-end fashion shoot, or a topless woman on a beach, is no less documentary than a B&W image of a homeless man slumped in a doorway.
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David Sutton

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Re: Photography Meaning
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2018, 04:46:51 pm »

Human beings like to categorise because it helps us make sense of the world. We then immediately forget that the map is not the territory. You see this particularly in politics, economics and other forms of religion. I guess an exception would be professional sport where there are the limits of body shape and training. There are not many weightlifters who can do track and field.
I like categories for judging. You whittle down the field quickly and reduce the need for drugs. But out there in the real world I'd rather go photograph and see what place it takes me to. What place in the external and internal world. But then, on the whole, I have that luxury because I'm not being paid to produce results.
David
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: Photography Meaning
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2018, 05:18:56 pm »

Yes, photography can be viewed as just documentation but as Russ pointed out it can't help but communicate to the viewer how, what, where, when, why and who is making the documentation. That's a tremendous amount of information to suss from a photo. Forensic scientists are aware of this and use it to solve crimes.

Even the movie "Blowup" demonstrates that. However, when I saw that movie and the photos presented in context to the subject in the photo increased my emotional response of sadness in relation to the plot. The dream like appearance of the B&W photos blown up made the movie more interesting in a way that goes beyond just mere documentation.

What a viewer derives emotionally from such a loaded document is up to the viewer and not the photographer, unless that photographer is pandering to a particular audience or market. Even that one aspect of perceived motivation is documented in the photo which answers "why" the photo was taken.

For me photography sure beats what can be said in words but that may be due to its use of image language which doesn't need a translator to be understood or appreciated.
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OmerV

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Re: Photography Meaning
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2018, 06:20:53 pm »

That is not how I choose to look at it. Those poems are not documentary.

All photography is documentary to the extent that it necessarily has an indexical relationship to the world which it depicts. Like a footprint in the snow. A high-end fashion shoot, or a topless woman on a beach, is no less documentary than a B&W image of a homeless man slumped in a doorway.
Poetry is the same, it needs words which act as indexical points of understanding. Try reading a poem in a language you don't know. The words "breath" and "concrete" have the same connection to our understanding of existence as a lamp post or bus pictured in a photo. A photograph may not seem as metaphorical as a poem but that is a matter of learning and understanding how photography communicates.

BobShaw

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Re: Photography Meaning
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2018, 08:39:43 pm »

We can all pretty much agree, can’t we?  Photography can be divided in two dimensions (for the moment), photo journalism and photo art. 
Photo journalism captures things as they are. Photo jouralism is the best we can do with what we have at the moment with the things we have, and with the best or worst situations.
Photo art is art.  Muck it up or make it shine.  It conveys a message and/or makes the author or viewers feel good, thoughtful or something else. 
Inviting some thoughts on the meaning of it all.
Sorry, but I disagree with pretty much all of that.

It reminded me that I am currently watching "The Crown" on Netflix. Winston Churchill is Prime Minister of the UK and has just turned 80. The government commissions a highly regarded artist to paint his portrait. The artist on completion describes how he hopes to have captured the dignity of age and the lines of wisdom. Churchill obviously agreed as he got one of aids to take it outside and burn it. Sometimes realism is not required or wanted.

If a larger size women comes in for a portrait do you portray her as a larger size woman? Not if you want to make any money.

There is no more or less realism in photography than there is in any other form of art. Even seemingly real subjects like houses for sale and war scenes don't necessarily look like that if in real life.
I run an art group and we have exhibitions with both paintings and photography. In a lot of cases people can't tell the difference.

The only things that matter are the eye of the viewer and the emotion that it creates.
Do I like it, Do I want it, Can I afford it?
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Brad P

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Re: Photography Meaning
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2018, 03:10:30 am »

I’ve often wondered why I love photography.  I observe a lasting divide:  Realism and art. 

I guess I’m aspiring more to meaning in my own personal photography.  Do I capture beauty or ugly.  Do I develop happiness or something else?  Why, what purpose does my effort serve?

A nondescript pic from tonight.  Just cleaned my sensor. 

« Last Edit: March 29, 2018, 03:49:56 am by Brad Paulson »
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Rob C

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Re: Photography Meaning
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2018, 05:05:51 am »

I’ve often wondered why I love photography.  I observe a lasting divide:  Realism and art. 

I guess I’m aspiring more to meaning in my own personal photography.  Do I capture beauty or ugly.  Do I develop happiness or something else?  Why, what purpose does my effort serve?

A nondescript pic from tonight.  Just cleaned my sensor.

An interesting thought that has plagued me throughout my life.

On one, primary level I think (feel, may be more accurate) that I became a photographer because I discovered early that I lacked the skills to be a really good painter. As my interest was women, pretty much always has been, not having any of the skills of a Vargas meant photography was the sensible alternative to follow. But, the question that comes unbid, is this: has it been worth it? Yes, of course a level of success in the job of choice is pleasing, flatters the ego and provides lots of superficially exciting moments, but come the day you hang up the spurs - or they get removed from you - and what do you got, as they say? Pretty much nothing beyond memories, a little capital. There's nothing, in the form of a business, to sell as an ongoing concern: you were the business, not the tools that anybody can buy for next to nothing. Great in the moment, but lousy when you are old, weaker, out of alternative skills or opportunity to use them should you have them.

But, you probaby only live once, so which way do you run?

As for realism or art, I think for a photographer the two are inextricably bound up. You can't escape the realism because unlike a painter, you can't invent: you're stuck with what is, which you then have to manipulate to the best of your ability. Sure, you can arrange what's already there, but you can't produce new material out of thin air. The most open to you is the use of photographic understanding of how things behave.

Perhaps you slip into art when you have something within that lets you make informed choices from the possible, where another would merely set up, focus and shoot, capturing the obvious.

Making a distinction between personal photography and any other seems, to me, a bit odd. People hired me because of what I did, because I was who I was and thus did it as I did; they would have hired somebody else if that person had given them something they wanted more. There is no other reason why companies with huge budgets select the photographers that they do to shoot their campaigns: they like the person's style, which is that person's art, the bit that shines throughout all the different work he does.

That, your own sensibility, is your art, your visual, graphic personality.

"I guess I’m aspiring more to meaning in my own personal photography.  Do I capture beauty or ugly.  Do I develop happiness or something else?  Why, what purpose does my effort serve?"

The question of aspiration to meaning seems slightly unreal: you do what you are driven to do, choices based on opportunity and ability. To do anything but that strikes me as perverse: why on Earth would you do anything you don't feel compelled to do? Art isn't meant to be a painful occupation. As for purpose served, there is but one: your own sense of satisfaction. (I speak, of course, from the non-pro position of total freedom of choices.)
« Last Edit: March 29, 2018, 05:08:52 am by Rob C »
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: Photography Meaning
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2018, 03:26:41 pm »

As for realism or art, I think for a photographer the two are inextricably bound up. You can't escape the realism because unlike a painter, you can't invent: you're stuck with what is, which you then have to manipulate to the best of your ability. Sure, you can arrange what's already there, but you can't produce new material out of thin air. The most open to you is the use of photographic understanding of how things behave.


Perhaps you slip into art when you have something within that lets you make informed choices from the possible, where another would merely set up, focus and shoot, capturing the obvious.

Or you can use the camera to be an explorer of worlds within reality. I was a photorealistic painter back when I was a high school teen and aspired to paint as realistic as illustrators such as Vargas and Bama, both my heros as well as Mad Magazine's cartoonists Jack Davis and Mort Drucker. I nailed their line work and caricature style. Didn't get much work working in Texas except through a few ad specialty companies. Was told I had to go to New York or LA to make the big money.

As it is in life things change and I went in another direction which led me into photography as a hobby. It has enriched my life more than any monetary compensation could provide. Photography forced me to confront what reality has to offer and get out of the studio and explore. If I hadn't gone the direction of photography especially shooting Raw I would never have found the world within my kitchen's soap bottle.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2018, 03:35:06 pm by Tim Lookingbill »
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