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Author Topic: Children and Guns - Photojournalism  (Read 22875 times)

Damon Lynch

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Re: Children and Guns - Photojournalism
« Reply #140 on: March 26, 2018, 12:58:43 pm »

Remove suicides from the stats and the correlation between gun onwership and murders is non-existent in the US.

Apparently you missed the part of the statement that says "More gun ownership corresponds with more gun murders across virtually every axis".  I don't think you're destined for a career as a researcher Slobodan.
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texshooter

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Re: Children and Guns - Photojournalism
« Reply #141 on: March 26, 2018, 02:11:06 pm »

Show me a credible study that proves responsible, well-trained and emotionally stable gun owners are more likely to be killed or robbed, and I'll have my Dirty Harry melt down today.

Otherwise...

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jeremyrh

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Re: Children and Guns - Photojournalism
« Reply #142 on: March 26, 2018, 02:44:03 pm »

Show me a credible study that proves responsible, well-trained and emotionally stable gun owners are more likely to be killed or robbed, and I'll have my Dirty Harry melt down today.

Otherwise...


Show me an emotionally stable gun owner and we're off to a start.
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Damon Lynch

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Re: Children and Guns - Photojournalism
« Reply #143 on: March 26, 2018, 02:59:33 pm »

Show me a credible study that proves responsible, well-trained and emotionally stable gun owners are more likely to be killed or robbed, and I'll have my Dirty Harry melt down today.

Alright, now that we've established that more guns corresponds with more gun murders, you're retreating to the idea that as long as people like you are able to legally amass powerful weapons whose only purpose is to kill, you're just fine with the stunning level of gun murders in the U.S. You portray yourself as "responsible" and "emotionally stable". But when it comes down to it, what you're really saying is the only person you truly care about is you. Thanks for so openly sharing your real values with us!

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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Children and Guns - Photojournalism
« Reply #144 on: March 26, 2018, 03:07:42 pm »

Alright, now that we've established that more guns corresponds with more gun murders...

In your own mind. In reality, far from the truth.

texshooter

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Re: Children and Guns - Photojournalism
« Reply #145 on: March 26, 2018, 03:32:03 pm »

But when it comes down to it, what you're really saying is the only person you truly care about is you. Thanks for so openly sharing your real values with us!

It's not my fault you don't own a gun.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Children and Guns - Photojournalism
« Reply #146 on: March 26, 2018, 03:32:32 pm »

Apparently you missed the part of the statement that says "More gun ownership corresponds with more gun murders across virtually every axis".  I don't think you're destined for a career as a researcher Slobodan.

Maybe not a career as a researcher, but I know a thing or two about how to read and interpret a research.

Btw, the chart your provided clearly says "deaths," not murders, thus including suicides (which represent about 2/3 of all gun-related deaths). I responded with a chart that plots only murders. That "statement" you quote is just that, a statement, not a proof.

Ever heard of data massaging? While it might have a legitimate use, I am referring here to selecting data that supports your argument and ignoring data that does not. In case of your "research," it means looking for a set of data (countries) that prove your preconceived ideas of the end result.

Why that particular set of countries? Why comparing countries with vastly different history and culture? Most of Europe is based on serfdom history and mentality, with no guns allowed for its "subjects," in order to protect their kings and queens. The United States was born and expanded based on guns.

Barbados!? Qatar!? Really? Why not Bahamas, which happen to have the world's highest murder rate per capita. Great Britain? They murder with knives, so, obviously, their gun-murder stats will be lower. Etc., etc.

Besides, I provided a much more recent research, published by the National Public Radio (left-leaning in itself), with data from CDC and other official sources, that proves the opposite in the US: murder rates down 50%, gun ownership doubled, since 1993.

But if you want to play with choosing different sets of data, how about this: red line indicates a group of countries with practically the same gun-ownership rates, but up to five times higher murder rates. Or the blue line: the same murder rate, but vastly different gun ownership. There are several other horizontal and vertical line on that graph that I can draw, each time drawing a conclusion that suits my goal.

RSL

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Re: Children and Guns - Photojournalism
« Reply #147 on: March 26, 2018, 03:37:41 pm »

Btw, the chart your provided clearly says "deaths," not murders, thus including suicides (which represent about 2/3 of all gun-related deaths).

"Deaths" also will include accidents, and there always are a few of those by people who never learn how to handle firearms.
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Damon Lynch

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Re: Children and Guns - Photojournalism
« Reply #148 on: March 26, 2018, 04:09:06 pm »

It's not my fault you don't own a gun.

Some gun owners are goodhearted people who happen to be naïve about the effect of mass gun ownership on gun death rates, including murder. Due to many factors, they've never experienced life in a society where guns are not the norm.  It's possible to reason with such people.

Then there are gun owners who are simply selfish, mean, paranoid, and fearful.
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Damon Lynch

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Re: Children and Guns - Photojournalism
« Reply #149 on: March 26, 2018, 04:25:33 pm »

Maybe not a career as a researcher, but I know a thing or two about how to read and interpret a research.

In that case, let's focus on murders, and put aside suicide, accident etc. Do share with us your analytical skills to interpret this research, which I linked to earlier: "Multivariate analyses found that [U.S.] states with higher rates of household firearm ownership had significantly higher homicide victimization rates of men, women and children."

And this, which again, I linked to earlier: "Within the United States, a wide array of empirical evidence indicates that more guns in a community lead to more homicide."

And to turn to a chart that focuses on gun murder (mass murder in this instance) worldwide, see the attached chart.  It shows, more guns = more murder, worldwide, across different cultures and histories. (And it also shows what an extreme outlier the U.S. is when it comes to gun ownership.)

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texshooter

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Re: Children and Guns - Photojournalism
« Reply #150 on: March 26, 2018, 04:39:22 pm »

Some gun owners are goodhearted people who happen to be naïve about the effect of mass gun ownership on gun death rates, including murder. Due to many factors, they've never experienced life in a society where guns are not the norm.  It's possible to reason with such people.

Then there are gun owners who are simply selfish, mean, paranoid, and fearful.


Then there are gun rights opponents who aren't as good at mind reading as they think they are. I'm sure it won't be long before liberals start accusing gun rights advocates of being racists. But there I go mind reading...bad Texshooter (slap slap).

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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Children and Guns - Photojournalism
« Reply #151 on: March 26, 2018, 04:39:52 pm »

Once again, your chart doesn't show what you claim it does. What is shows is that the largest cluster of dots (in my blue rectangle) does not show any correlation between ownership and mass shootings. And the blue line shows that the same ownership results in vastly different mass shootings. Besides, mass shootings in most countries, including the US, represent only about 1% of all gun deaths, thus statistically not significant to draw conclusions.

Damon Lynch

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Re: Children and Guns - Photojournalism
« Reply #152 on: March 26, 2018, 05:01:20 pm »

Then there are gun rights opponents who aren't as good at mind reading as they think they are. I'm sure it won't be long before liberals start accusing gun rights advocates of being racists. But there I go mind reading...bad Texshooter (slap slap).

As long as you are allowed to legally stockpile as many weapons as you wish, I think you've made yourself loud and clear that you're not interested in any pesky facts about the correspondence between gun ownership and murder. Access to powerful weapons is what you care about.
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Damon Lynch

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Re: Children and Guns - Photojournalism
« Reply #153 on: March 26, 2018, 05:21:20 pm »

Once again, your chart doesn't show what you claim it does. What is shows is that the largest cluster of dots (in my blue rectangle) does not show any correlation between ownership and mass shootings. And the blue line shows that the same ownership results in vastly different mass shootings. Besides, mass shootings in most countries, including the US, represent only about 1% of all gun deaths, thus statistically not significant to draw conclusions.

The author of the study from which the chart is derived concluded "a country’s rate of gun ownership correlated with the odds it would experience a mass shooting." So who are we to believe? The researcher, who is a professor at the University of Alabama, or Slobodan Blagojevic, gun enthusiast? You seem to believe your more qualified to interpret his data than he is.
 
You didn't respond to any of the other studies, which are fairly decisive in their findings.  Your attachment to guns is based not on careful research into the effects of gun ownership on murder, suicides, or accidental death, but on ideology and emotions. For most men like you,  a gun is a symbol of power and independence.

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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Children and Guns - Photojournalism
« Reply #154 on: March 26, 2018, 05:40:37 pm »

I think we have exhausted the photography aspects of this topic and things are starting to get too heated.  I'm going to save our moderator some time and lock the topic.  If anyone wants to discuss the statistics of gun deaths they should open a new thread just for that purpose.  I would like to thank all who participated in this discussion for raising some good points!!
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