Here is my experience with Epson expired inks (advice needed).

[MariC]

I've been running an Epson 7900 for the last seven years and never needed to change cartridges (I print quite infrequently), this has inevitably led all inks to eventually expire (I should have bought smaller tanks), however I have never had any immediately visible problem with color accuracy (I don't own a spectrophotometer though...), or excessive clogs. Now, after not using the printer for almost a year, and the inks having been expired for a good six years (may be an "infamous” forum record!) I am starting to have visible problems - specifically dark photographs being washed out and some slight but discernible changes in more colorful prints. Fortunately nozzles are ok, with only Magenta seeming to be slightly more prone to clogging. Interestingly after quite a few prints black levels seem to have returned almost to normal, so I am guessing that most of the problems were brought about by ink settling in the inklines (I regularly shake ink tanks) and becoming slightly less dense (maybe?).

I now need to print a new set of prints which require as much color accuracy as possible and I cannot risk using expired inks. As far as I have understood, the 7900 inklines hold roughly 40ml of inks (please correct me if I'm wrong!) so changing the ink tanks would be of no use, at least not in the short run.

I was thinking about performing an "initial fill" in service mode with new ink tanks installed. What do you think about that?
That is usually a procedure done when all ink lines are empty and the printer is new, however I have seen it suggested by brands like Piezoflush alongside their solution, but I’m not sure if it’s safe to do with actual ink tanks rather than flushing solution.

The only other alternative I could think of would be printing purge files, however I just tried QTR (for the first time) using an ink separation file in calibration mode but when it started printing made such a weird and worrisome sound that I had to stop printing immediately, may be that’s normal but it sounded too strange… (I might make a more detailed post about that later tomorrow). I don’t think that there is a way to print actual cartridge colors, “pure” ink , without a rip software so unless I understand the issue with QTR that should not work.

If anyone on the forum has had any personal experience with the "initial fill" procedure in situations like this or has any better suggestion it would be a life saver!

Thanks

MariC

[Mark D Segal]

You may well get some helpful responses here from people who have experienced something like your situation; but if it were me in your situation, my first stop would Epson's Prographics technical support. Have you phoned them for advice on how to proceed?

[MariC]

Mark, thanks for your reply.

Yes, I have got in touch with Epson support, however, they have offered no advice and let me know that my only option would be to have a technician come to my home. I’m speaking about Epson Europe, hopefully in the USA they might have been more helpful. Since I live away from any Epson center the technician visit might run into a substantial sum and I was hoping to tap into the forum knowledge before having to resort to that. I have been researching the issue on the net for several days and come up with a few possible solutions but I have never done something like this and would like not to screw things up even more.

Fingers crossed someone with more experience will have already had to deal with a similar issue.

[Mark D Segal]

That's unfortunate. I hope there is a member of our Forum who could be helpful with this.

[Farmer]

Shake the inks gently (side to side agitation), and then run a couple of heavy cleans to shift the ink through the lines.  You are most likely experiencing pigment separation.  If that doesn't do it, you may need new ink carts (and then flush through with some heavy cleans).

[mearussi]

I would try Farmer's suggestion first, but if that doesn't work and you wish to use the initial fill option be aware that this will fill up most of your waste tank, so you'd better either have a a new one handy or have a reset chip and a box of Kleenex ready to refill it. 

[MariC]

Mearussi, thanks for your tip. Yes, I intend to buy a new waste tank in case I go the init fill route. That will be enough, won’t it? I don’t want to make a mess…

[MariC]

Farmer, thanks for your suggestion. Actually, I already shacked the tanks and gone through a couple of cleans and several prints, that worked very well and the situation is 97 percent there. Unfortunately I don’t own a spectrophotometer so even if I keep doing this I will never know with certainty when and if the inks are back to standard 1000%. I hope it makes sense.

Given the fact that the inks are now six years expired, and that I now have the need to print some very color accurate files, I thought that the best course of action would be to empty all lines of old ink and replace it with new ink with the safest procedure possible, and the possibly the most efficient one. At the end I will need a custom profile and I don’t want to risk doing it with the last bit of expired ink.

I’m trying to figure out how to make sure that all 40ml of inks contained in the lines and head are emptied in favor of new 40ml of ink but possibly no more, and certainly no less.

I have read conflicting info regarding weather init fill is enough or not, for example… and I don’t know if it’s safe to do since the lines are full of ink and not empty as when new, for which, I believe, the procedure is designed.

What do you think?

[guido]

I think you might be over-worrying things. I'd do several smaller size test prints of the images in question and show the results to the interested parties. If they are happy you should be too...

[Mark D Segal]

I think you might be over-worrying things. I'd do several smaller size test prints of the images in question and show the results to the interested parties. If they are happy you should be too...

Well, not so fast - that depends on the state of the test prints - one wants above all to maintain the confidence of the customers.

[Wayne Fox]

I’m trying to figure out how to make sure that all 40ml of inks contained in the lines and head are emptied in favor of new 40ml of ink but possibly no more, and certainly no less.

The initfill is the easiest route to make sure all the ink has been replaced.  It will use double the amount of LK as it does the other colors (normal in an initial) so be prepared for that.  But even the smallest cartridges have more than enough to accomplish this. 

I'm not sure how a repeat of the initfill handles the waste tanks, whether it assumes they are new, or can actually calculate if there is enough room.  May want to drop the new one in before the init fill, then swap back or store the other one in the plastic bag if there's quite a bit of room left.  The problem is a normal initfill doesn't need much room in the waste tank, but in your case you will be dumping about 400ml of ink into the tank.

While expired inks are usually not a problem, yes you may have a record.  I would never be using partially filled 6 year old cartridges.

[MariC]

I think you might be over-worrying things. I'd do several smaller size test prints of the images in question and show the results to the interested parties. If they are happy you should be too...

Thank you for joining in, I am of the same opinion as Mark though; it’s not just a matter of the prints being good enough (without a side by side comparison with a known reference), but for them to be as accurate as possible.

[MariC]

Wayne, thank you for all your suggestions and tips!

[Farmer]

Always put a new maintenance tank in before doing an initial fill to be safe.

Also, lines are not empty when you receive the printer new - they are full of shipping liquid to protect them, so moving that or ink is much the same.

[MariC]

Also, lines are not empty when you receive the printer new - they are full of shipping liquid to protect them, so moving that or ink is much the same.

That's quite interesting, thanks!

Do you think that after the init fill I should switch to a new tank, or since the tank "expects" to be filled with a known quantity of liquid It is safe to keep using it?

[mearussi]

That's quite interesting, thanks!

Do you think that after the init fill I should switch to a new tank, or since the tank "expects" to be filled with a known quantity of liquid It is safe to keep using it?

The printer keeps track of the maintenance tank level. It is a good idea to put in a fresh tank before doing the initial fill, but if it's not full you can continue to use it until it is.

[Farmer]

The printer keeps track of the maintenance tank level. It is a good idea to put in a fresh tank before doing the initial fill, but if it's not full you can continue to use it until it is.

Exactly right.  The reason for the new tank is to avoid it becoming full part way through or in case of a bad chip and it's more full than it looks and then it overflows - that won't happen with a new one and you'll have plenty of capacity left.

[guido]

Thank you for joining in, I am of the same opinion as Mark though; it’s not just a matter of the prints being good enough (without a side by side comparison with a known reference), but for them to be as accurate as possible.

If a subjective standard is inadequate, you need an absolute standard. The only way to achieve this is with a spectrometer. There is no way to achieve your desired accuracy without one...

[Mark D Segal]

If a subjective standard is inadequate, you need an absolute standard. The only way to achieve this is with a spectrometer. There is no way to achieve your desired accuracy without one...

I think what you may mean here is that there is no way of knowing whether you have achieved the desired accuracy without a spectrophotometer. The spectro is necessary for verification, but of course not sufficient for implementing remedial measures. First know what's going on (with the spectro), then decide how to fix whatever needs fixing (other tools and techniques). I also think that one needs to be careful with the use of numbers. They perform a necessary function but again, not sufficient on their own. They need to be interpreted to evaluate the meaningfulness or importance of a particular result. Supposing I find out that some colours are out by a dE of 2, how important is this? Well, it depends; such inaccuracies can easily get lost in the mix of a multi-colour or busy photo - they could be totally unimportant or hardly remarkable to most viewers, but for certain other photos not. Context is everything, so care is needed in interpreting the results of measuring for adherence to absolute standards.

(edited typos)

[MariC]

The printer keeps track of the maintenance tank level. It is a good idea to put in a fresh tank before doing the initial fill, but if it's not full you can continue to use it until it is.

Exactly right.  The reason for the new tank is to avoid it becoming full part way through or in case of a bad chip and it's more full than it looks and then it overflows - that won't happen with a new one and you'll have plenty of capacity left.

Thanks for the info, my MaintenanceTank has only 33% so I will definitely not be using that.