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Author Topic: Tillerson out?  (Read 3916 times)

Two23

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Re: Tillerson out?
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2018, 07:03:10 PM »

I just don't care.  It all works out in the end.  We've had some truly horrid Secretaries of State before--Madeleine Albright & Hillary come to mind, and the country survived. I have no idea why a non-US citizen would care about it either.  I have no idea who the Secretary of State is in any other country, and that has zero effect on my life.



Kent in SD
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 09:59:42 PM by Two23 »
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OmerV

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Re: Tillerson out?
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2018, 07:06:20 PM »

1) we are not a democracy

2) comment was narrow - about his belief(s).. if a farmer can believe that he can be a president, nothing wrong with some CEO believing that he can be a State Sec.

So hey, I want to be the best photographer ever, then I guess I am, eh?! Yeah Chill8)

texshooter

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Re: Tillerson out?
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2018, 07:12:20 PM »

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Chris Kern

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Re: Tillerson out?
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2018, 07:28:24 PM »

I'm hardly a fan of Trump, Tillerson, or Pompeo, but . . .

The secretary of state's policy preferences are expected to align with those of the president.  Pompeo's do; Tillerson's—he is accustomed to being the guy who makes the policy—at least occasionally did not.  And Tillerson was caught referring to el señor Loco as "a moron," which, however technically accurate, is no way to ingratiate yourself to el jefe.

Pompeo is no dope.  He has strong political views, which I think irrationally biased his behavior during the Benghazi hearings in the House of Representatives, but he has supported the unanimous conclusions by the U.S. intelligence "community" regarding attempts by Russian intelligence services to influence the 2016 U.S. presidential election, despite Trump's denials, and I'm willing to bet he will listen to the foreign service officers at State, as well.

I also believe a director of central intelligence who is a career civil servant is more likely than a political appointee to make certain the agency operates within the strict boundaries of the law.  I wouldn't be particularly concerned about Gina Haspel's involvement in controversial practices, because she—like any other career federal employee (myself included, when I worked for the U.S. government)—was required to carry out any presumptively-legal instructions she received from her management.

Farmer

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Re: Tillerson out?
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2018, 07:54:14 PM »

1) we are not a democracy

You are a democratic, constitutional republic, I suppose.  In short hand, you're a democracy.
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Phil Brown

Two23

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Re: Tillerson out?
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2018, 08:03:32 PM »

That's a song I can tap to.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RHb0yOTzi_4



This is the first song that came to mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-Q3gd6S1as

It's from 1905, written by Lenox/Sutton.  I have several CDs of music from 1900-1920 that I listen to in my car.



Kent in SD
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DP

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Re: Tillerson out?
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2018, 08:24:28 PM »

You are a democratic, constitutional republic, I suppose.  In short hand, you're a democracy.

just your wishful thinking... like being a little bit pregnant
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DP

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Re: Tillerson out?
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2018, 08:26:35 PM »

good news... HRMcM is on a chopping block... lovely
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bassman51

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Re: Tillerson out?
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2018, 09:06:32 PM »

I think it's impossible for many of us to know whether Tillerson was any good in the job or not.  He was hamstrung by a boss who really didn't appear to care what he thought, and contradicted him on many occasions.  His staff - meaning the career employees of the State Department - apparently hated him.  Again, we have no idea if they were really effective and justified in their views, or if the whole department is a mess. 

In Tillerson's defense, he apparently refered to The Dumpster as an "f$$k$ng moron" - so he does have some positive traits.
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James Clark

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Re: Tillerson out?
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2018, 09:15:46 PM »

good news... HRMcM is on a chopping block... lovely

Taking you at your word that you're serious, why do you think it's good that the few cabinet members that are honestly regarded as good fits for their roles are being fired?
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BartvanderWolf

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Re: Tillerson out?
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2018, 10:21:59 PM »

Taking you at your word that you're serious, why do you think it's good that the few cabinet members that are honestly regarded as good fits for their roles are being fired?

+1

Cheers,
Bart
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Alan Klein

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Re: Tillerson out?
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2018, 10:58:42 PM »

I liked Tillerson, probably the most level headed person in his government.
However I'm biased, I met him personally a few years ago and he made quite an impression, very sharp and a pleasure to talk with.

Just saw Trump on television saying "I got along with Rex fine, but we had some differences of opinion about certain issues". Apparently he's trying to retract into an echo chamber (do I see a trend?) where everybody agrees with him, makes it much easier to push through his agenda. I don't see much good coming from this move.
I like and supported Tillerson. I was happy when he made Secretary of State.  But Trump wants to run the US government like he ran the Trump Organization.  He's boss. He's his own man and his instincts are paramount to him.  It worked for him in the Republican nomination process and in the general election. Why should he listen to everyone else who was wrong?   He doesn't believe or trust government bureaucrats.  He thinks they're all nitwits.  Most are.  Maybe that's why he likes generals like Mattis.  They're more competent generally than bureaucrats.  Their troop's lives depend on it. 

The person above who praised how Bush managed a great team forgets to mention that that great team convinced Bush to go to war in Iraq causing a conflagration that hasn't ended.  And look at that genius Secretary of Defense McNamara who kept telling the President Johnson and everyone else how we were winning in Vietnam because the body count was in our favor.  So "good" advisers are not cracked up to the hype about them.  They all get caught up in process and don't see the forest from the trees.  Like photographers who are counting pixels all the time instead of actually seeing what they're looking at. 

In any case, my guess is that Pompeo won't fare well either.   

Farmer

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Re: Tillerson out?
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2018, 11:29:21 PM »

just your wishful thinking... like being a little bit pregnant

So what are you, then?  Pony up a rational and supported opinion.
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Phil Brown

DP

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Re: Tillerson out?
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2018, 12:15:50 AM »

I like and supported Tillerson. I was happy when he made Secretary of State.

did you support that b$$$h too ?

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opgr

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Re: Tillerson out?
« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2018, 12:34:11 AM »

The person above who praised how Bush managed a great team forgets to mention that that great team convinced Bush to go to war in Iraq causing a conflagration that hasn't ended. 

Comprehensive readingskills FTW. Literally:

I don't much care for the Bush jr philosophy and legacy...
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opgr

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Re: Tillerson out?
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2018, 12:36:20 AM »

did you support that b$$$h too ?

DP, could you try to post more than a single antagonizing sentence each time you post? It makes the conversation more interesting and pleasant to me.
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Rob C

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Re: Tillerson out?
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2018, 09:47:39 AM »

Well, Pompeo Posar was a top Playboy staffer, so photography does have a place in politics after all.

Rob
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 09:52:06 AM by Rob C »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Tillerson out?
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2018, 10:30:16 AM »

Comprehensive readingskills FTW. Literally:

You cherry picked part of your sentence.  Your complete sentence was: "I don't much care for the Bush jr philosophy and legacy, but he certainly was able to form and manage a great team."  Like I said, that great team convinced Bush to go into Iraq. 

Chris_Brown

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Re: Tillerson out?
« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2018, 10:31:55 AM »

Well, Pompeo Posar was a top Playboy staffer, so photography does have a place in politics after all.

One of the best, IMO.



Back on topic:
As Secretary of the DoS Rex Tillerson supported the Paris Climate Treaty; the President did not; Secretary Tillerson supported the Obama administration’s Iran deal; the President did not; Tillerson was more apologetic toward lax immigration policy; the President is not; and there were other visible departures visible surrounding the use of economic leverage to achieve national security advancements, specifically on the issue of China and North Korea policy.
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~ CB

opgr

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Re: Tillerson out?
« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2018, 11:28:14 AM »

You cherry picked part of your sentence.  Your complete sentence was: "I don't much care for the Bush jr philosophy and legacy, but he certainly was able to form and manage a great team."  Like I said, that great team convinced Bush to go into Iraq.

Try to separate process and result. I don't condone the philosophy (pre-emptive strike), i don't much like the result (the world didn't become a safer place, au contraire), but his team was consistent and strong enough to convince the American people (congress) and several foreign allies to implement their strategy.

Whether they convinced Bush himself isn't even relevant. You don't want a POTUS to micromanage the largest and strongest nation in the world, which is what the constant hiring&firing is basically achieving. If you don't like the result of some detail, then just fire&hire someone else to conform to your idea of what the detail should look like.

You want a POTUS to basically form a team he/she can trust that will eventually result in the details being managed. Or do you really want your President to select the actual color of the wall they are planning to build? Because it currently looks very much like that is exactly what's happening.
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