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Author Topic: Etiquette and Political Discussions  (Read 9571 times)

KLaban

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Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2018, 01:16:04 pm »

Reading the CC political and climate change threads I discovered that a number of people whose photography I had admired are actually rather pathetic human beings. No reason necessarily why those things should be mutually exclusive but I found it saddening. I'd have preferred to look at the pictures in ignorance.


I wish I could erase the political views expressed by those I used to admire from my memory and return to a LuLa that was a photographic forum rather than a debating society/social media platform, but sadly I can't.

What's done is done.

32BT

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Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2018, 02:09:49 pm »



I wish I could erase the political views expressed by those I used to admire from my memory and return to a LuLa that was a photographic forum rather than a debating society/social media platform, but sadly I can't.

What's done is done.

+1
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Telecaster

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Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2018, 03:00:19 pm »

Done. If you have requests such as this in future, it would be better to make them directly to me, Chris or Kevin rather than by a post in an unrelated thread.

Got it. Thanks! (I looked through the forum docs before posting but didn't find anything on moving threads.)

-Dave-
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Rob C

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Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2018, 03:37:33 pm »

+1


Why the long faces?

Simply ignore the sections of LuLa that displease you: simple.

I couldn't give a damn about Sarah Moon's or Hans Feurer's or even good ol' Bailey's governmental system preferences; I just love the photographs they can make. That's what I want from them. Period.

Judging their value to me by whether or not they endorse the same religion, party or anything else outwith their art, seems kinda pointless.

After all, who started the thread on the long tall oilman who got fired yesterday? :-)

Rob

KLaban

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Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2018, 03:50:20 pm »


Why the long faces?

Simply ignore the sections of LuLa that displease you: simple.

I couldn't give a damn about Sarah Moon's or Hans Feurer's or even good ol' Bailey's governmental system preferences; I just love the photographs they can make. That's what I want from them. Period.

Judging their value to me by whether or not they endorse the same religion, party or anything else outwith their art, seems kinda pointless.

Rob

That would be closing the barn door after the horse has bolted. Unfortunately I read the threads and can't erase them or the views expressed from my memory.

The folk concerned - and it's not present company - are neither Sarah Moon nor Hans Feurer.

Telecaster

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Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2018, 04:04:36 pm »

I couldn't give a damn about Sarah Moon's or Hans Feurer's or even good ol' Bailey's governmental system preferences; I just love the photographs they can make. That's what I want from them. Period.

Judging their value to me by whether or not they endorse the same religion, party or anything else outwith their art, seems kinda pointless.

I think everyone draws the line on this at some point. My dad, who loved much of Wagner's music despite the man's well-known issues, nonetheless wouldn't listen to certain of his works due to historical circumstances I'm sure you're familiar with. IMO great art can transcend anti-great character. But never completely.

I was never bothered much in the past by LuLa's tolerance of polemical threads or by the avid participators in such threads. Hell, I even threw in an occasional post of my own. But when they started really curdling I was glad to see 'em go. Now that LuLa has chosen to reindulge them I look at both them and it in a different light, with my line drawn at a different place.

-Dave-
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James Clark

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Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2018, 04:29:35 pm »

I think everyone draws the line on this at some point. My dad, who loved much of Wagner's music despite the man's well-known issues, nonetheless wouldn't listen to certain of his works due to historical circumstances I'm sure you're familiar with. IMO great art can transcend anti-great character. But never completely.

I was never bothered much in the past by LuLa's tolerance of polemical threads or by the avid participators in such threads. Hell, I even threw in an occasional post of my own. But when they started really curdling I was glad to see 'em go. Now that LuLa has chosen to reindulge them I look at both them and it in a different light, with my line drawn at a different place.

-Dave-

Hi Dave.   Some of us are making a real and honest attempt to elevate the discussion and actively discourage personal attacks and the kind of thing that leads to them.  Speaking personally, I've also resolved to post at least one photo-related post for every non-photo-related comment I make. I'm behind today but I'm going to give myself a pass on this one. ;)
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Telecaster

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Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2018, 04:37:58 pm »

Hi Dave.  Some of us are making a real and honest attempt to elevate the discussion and actively discourage personal attacks and the kind of thing that leads to them.  Speaking personally, I've also resolved to post at least one photo-related post for every non-photo-related comment I make. I'm behind today but I'm going to give myself a pass on this one. ;)

That's good, and I hope it does good. Now that these discussions are back I'm fine with letting 'em rise or fall on their own merits.

-Dave-
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32BT

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Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #48 on: March 15, 2018, 05:33:38 pm »

That would be closing the barn door after the horse has bolted. Unfortunately I read the threads and can't erase them or the views expressed from my memory.

The folk concerned - and it's not present company - are neither Sarah Moon nor Hans Feurer.

Exactly.

And it wasn't merely the views, but the horrible, disrespectful logic behind it.

Quote
No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man.
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If you can stomach it: pictures

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2018, 08:32:41 pm »

Reading the CC political and climate change threads I discovered that a number of people whose photography I had admired are actually rather pathetic human beings. No reason necessarily why those things should be mutually exclusive but I found it saddening. I'd have preferred to look at the pictures in ignorance.

This is a very sad statement. It is perfectly clear that you are not talking about half of the United States (aka the basket of deplorables). It is perfectly clear that you are not making a group insult, e.g., "all conservatives are pathetic human beings." You are clearly addressing a pretty small, easily identifiable group of individuals, members of this forum. I am pretty sure you had me in mind, among others.

Now, I've been called names on this forum before. Dick, jerk, or worse. I do not mind. I believe in "stick & stones..." I do not mind if you call me idiot or stupid. I do not mind if you call all Serbs "war criminals" (I've been getting PMs on this forum with questions like "How many women and children you murdered, you jerk?")

But a "pathetic human being"!? For having an opinion you don't like!? For daring to express it against the chorus of one-sided, politically correct ones, currently in vogue? For pointing out that things are not that simple as you (collective you) wants us to believe!? For annoying you!?

"Pathetic human being"!? I never raped or killed anyone, not even touched "inappropriately." My "sexual harassment" consisted of "you have a beautiful smile" thought meant for a passing colleague at work, but never pronounced.  Never broke the law and never accused of or charged with anything (ok, I admit, I had two speeding tickets in my life).

So I am, and few others who I can guarantee you are very similar in deeds and in their lives to me, a "pathetic human being"!?

I strongly resent that. And as it is clearly a personal attack on a few, easily identifiable, forum members and thus against the forum rules, I am reporting you to the moderator.

Enough is enough.

Manoli

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Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #50 on: March 15, 2018, 09:31:28 pm »

This is a very sad statement. [...] And as it is clearly a personal attack on a few, easily identifiable, forum members and thus against the forum rules, I am reporting you to the moderator.

I'm curious as to why you should feel targeted.
It's not an unsurprising response (*) from someone who may feel strongly on one side or other of an argument.

Was he referring to the avid Anti-Brexiteers (I'm one) or those so very much in favour?
Was he referring to those 'white gloves' so opposed to Trump's stance on the Paris accord, or those who support his (arguably foolhardy) decision?
Was he referring to those you often refer to as the 'Liberal Elite' or those with a distinct right-wing bias ?

I could go on ...
Why you ?

Edit:
(*) jeremyrh's post in your quote above
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 09:37:47 pm by Manoli »
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #51 on: March 15, 2018, 09:48:16 pm »

I'm curious as to why you should feel targeted.
It's not an unsurprising response (*) from someone who may feel strongly on one side or other of an argument.

+1

Cheers,
Bart
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #52 on: March 15, 2018, 11:02:40 pm »

I'm curious as to why you should feel targeted.
It's not an unsurprising response (*) from someone who may feel strongly on one side or other of an argument...

Seriously!?

Does it matter if it is me or not? Is it ok to consider those we disagree with "rather pathetic human beings" and state it so publicly? Speaking about "progressive hostility" from the other thread I started, this is then a great example.

But it was not a general statement. This was a highly targeted statement, because it is not just those who posted conservative views, already a rather small number here, but those whose photography is worth admiring. A small number of participants in political discussions post their photographs, and even smaller number of conservative posters post theirs.

Feel free to name those, apart from Rob, Russ and me (sorry if I forgot someone) who are conservative posters and post their photographs regularly.

Farmer

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Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #53 on: March 15, 2018, 11:33:02 pm »

So the secret is to be just ambiguous enough that you can squirm around and deny something is directed at any participant here, then it's OK to deride them as you see fit?
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Phil Brown

Rob C

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Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #54 on: March 16, 2018, 04:42:35 am »

So the secret is to be just ambiguous enough that you can squirm around and deny something is directed at any participant here, then it's OK to deride them as you see fit?

Am I correct to assume you refer to jeremyrh, here?

Your post has been a little abiguous, as in the best of street photography.

But yes, Slobodan makes an interesting point, which I'd amplify to say that it really does surprise me that so many avid amateur politicans here seldom, if at all, post images by which we may gather an indication of either their photographc competence or, indeed, the direction in which their mind travels. Odd one would choose to inhabit a photography forum, yet hardly ever show any work... perhaps the photography quotient simply provides a volume, a forum for disruptive behaviour that might just as well consist of fishermen or potters.

Rob

« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 04:56:13 am by Rob C »
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Farmer

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Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #55 on: March 16, 2018, 05:29:09 am »

Or people can just be interested, or have other technical competencies, or post now and then, or have reasons for not being too overtly present, or, or, or, etc.
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Phil Brown

Manoli

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Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #56 on: March 16, 2018, 05:31:34 am »

...  it really does surprise me that so many avid amateur politicans here seldom, if at all, post images by which we may gather an indication of either their photographc competence or, indeed, the direction in which their mind travels.

Why would that surprise you ? Other than those who use LuLa as something akin to a camera club (a perfectly valid reason) I can think of little reason to show your shots unless you're looking for either 'user critique', peer input or a pat on the back.

Times change. LuLa was/is the place to come to on technical matters. Today, ALL the togs I know (and a large majority, I suspect, of those I don't) post on Instagram. If you're looking for a more targeted 'home', GetDPI and Fred Miranda.

Last time I looked, Schewe, digitaldog, Bart et al don't post photographs.
Doesn't make their input any less valuable.

ps
What have you got against fishermen or potters?
They're just as entitled to practice photography as you and I, and equally entitled to their own opinion.


----
Edit:
For Rob C

https://www.instagram.com/inezandvinoodh/
https://www.instagram.com/giovanni_gastel/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickdemarchelier/
https://www.instagram.com/markseliger/
https://www.instagram.com/richardyoung110/
https://www.instagram.com/profotoglobal/
« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 05:57:42 am by Manoli »
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pegelli

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Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #57 on: March 16, 2018, 07:43:48 am »

This is a very sad statement. It is perfectly clear that you are not talking about half of the United States (aka the basket of deplorables). It is perfectly clear that you are not making a group insult, e.g., "all conservatives are pathetic human beings." You are clearly addressing a pretty small, easily identifiable group of individuals, members of this forum.....
+1, I don't think calling any members of this forum "deplorable human beings" is signalling understanding of the etiquette on the site, especially in the thread that deals with exactly this issue.
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pieter, aka pegelli

Rob C

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Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #58 on: March 16, 2018, 08:22:46 am »

Why would that surprise you ? Other than those who use LuLa as something akin to a camera club (a perfectly valid reason) I can think of little reason to show your shots unless you're looking for either 'user critique', peer input or a pat on the back.

Times change. LuLa was/is the place to come to on technical matters. Today, ALL the togs I know (and a large majority, I suspect, of those I don't) post on Instagram. If you're looking for a more targeted 'home', GetDPI and Fred Miranda.

Last time I looked, Schewe, digitaldog, Bart et al don't post photographs.
Doesn't make their input any less valuable.

ps
What have you got against fishermen or potters?
They're just as entitled to practice photography as you and I, and equally entitled to their own opinion.


----
Edit:
For Rob C

https://www.instagram.com/inezandvinoodh/
https://www.instagram.com/giovanni_gastel/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickdemarchelier/
https://www.instagram.com/markseliger/
https://www.instagram.com/richardyoung110/
https://www.instagram.com/profotoglobal/


I don't have anything against fishermen or potters; why should I? I love fish more than beef, and always make sure I have a pot left to piss in.

I don't have anything to do with Insta. Twitter, FB or any of the other means of mass communication. The last thing I desire - well, one of the last things - is getting into some social media network that becomes even more of a time-consuming monster that is LuLa which, at least, is fairly pleasant.

Regarding Schewe, I seem to remember having suggested that he post images here as I believe he led/leads a high-level advertising photography life. That's pretty much the kind of photography that, naturally, oils my hinges.

Rob

Christopher Sanderson

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Re: Etiquette and Political Discussions
« Reply #59 on: March 16, 2018, 10:05:58 am »

...Now, I've been called names on this forum before. Dick, jerk, or worse. I do not mind. I believe in "stick & stones..." I do not mind if you call me idiot or stupid. I do not mind if you call all Serbs "war criminals" (I've been getting PMs on this forum with questions like "How many women and children you murdered, you jerk?")...

Abusive and objectionable personal Messages (PMs) may be reported to Moderators as as easily as posts and will be dealt with appropriately.
Anyone sending a message such as you describe will be permanently banned, the IP address used and other personal information will be noted for any further action that may be necessary.

Chris
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