Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: iMac vs iMac Pro  (Read 8020 times)

GeraldB

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 144
    • Gerald Bloch Photography
iMac vs iMac Pro
« on: March 01, 2018, 08:09:40 am »

I am in the market for a new machine, moving away from an older PC to an apple product. I use it mostly for Lightroom and Photoshop with D850 size images. Most heavy lifting is in photoshop. Don't do any serious video. I do print on a 7900.

Does anyone have any experience on whether the increased core count on the pro vs the faster clock speed of the iMac is worth the extra money?
The 2 machines I would consider are:
iMac 4.2 Ghz, 32Gb memory, 1TB ssd
iMac Pro, 8 core, 32GB memory, 1TB ssd

thanks
Gerald

Kevin Gallagher

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 963
Re: iMac vs iMac Pro
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2018, 08:15:38 am »

 Hi Gerald, from what I'm understanding from some of the threads here is that the Pro is more suited to video as far as performance gains are concerned. Nice website by the way, the collection of the armor shots is very well done!! You may want to try having a peek over on YouTube, there are many folks putting reports together on their experiences with the iMac Pro.

 Kevin in CT
Logged
Kevin In CT
All Animals Are Equal But Some Are More Equal
 George Orwell

GeraldB

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 144
    • Gerald Bloch Photography
Re: iMac vs iMac Pro
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2018, 08:30:31 am »

Thanks Kevin. I have the same thought on the extra cores being more value in video. I'll check out the youtube videos.
I was hoping there was someone on the forum who has upgraded iMac to Pro and could provide their thoughts

Kevin Gallagher

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 963
Re: iMac vs iMac Pro
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2018, 09:03:26 am »

I believe Kevin did a piece when he got his Pro, you might try checking with Chris as well.

 Kevin in CT
Logged
Kevin In CT
All Animals Are Equal But Some Are More Equal
 George Orwell

jwstl

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 149
Re: iMac vs iMac Pro
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2018, 11:56:01 am »

I am in the market for a new machine, moving away from an older PC to an apple product. I use it mostly for Lightroom and Photoshop with D850 size images. Most heavy lifting is in photoshop. Don't do any serious video. I do print on a 7900.

Does anyone have any experience on whether the increased core count on the pro vs the faster clock speed of the iMac is worth the extra money?
The 2 machines I would consider are:
iMac 4.2 Ghz, 32Gb memory, 1TB ssd
iMac Pro, 8 core, 32GB memory, 1TB ssd

thanks
Gerald

I was in the market for a new iMac and had the same decision to make. Microcenter made it easy when they had the base model iMac Pro on sale for $1000 off. It wasn't much more than a similarly equipped non-Pro version. I'm not seeing significant advantages when working with images but I do plan to work with video more so I expected to see gains there. If I hadn't gotten the $1000 off I would have gone with the non-Pro and been perfectly happy.
Logged

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13983
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: iMac vs iMac Pro
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2018, 05:07:44 pm »

For what it’s worth Digilloyd strongly recommends against the iMac Pro. Poor price to perfo ratio for photographers and important issues also.

I am personnally still ok with my 4 years old Mac Pro and will be waiting for the next gen pro to decide if I stay in the OSX world or go Win 10/11 with a high end workstation from HP.

I feel that today Win 10 is ahead in terms of scalability/perfo. Since most of the apps I use a lot are cross platform this would be pretty painless.

Cheers,
Bernard

rdonson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3263
Re: iMac vs iMac Pro
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2018, 05:32:55 pm »

I have the following:

27" iMac
4.2 GHz i7
40 GB RAM
Radion Pro 580  8GB
512 GB SSD

For storage I have 3 Drobo arrays.  Probably overkill on the number but 2 of them are old USB/FW800 with the big one being Thunderbolt 2 (up to 20Gbs).

I'm quite pleased with the machine.  I ordered it with 8GB RAM and added 32GB RAM from Crucial.  Crucial saved me a bunch of money vs Apple on the RAM.

I mostly use Lightroom and Photoshop for my photography with some additional plugins and software.

I'm also doing some 4K video work with Apple's Final Cut Pro X.   I wasn't into video much until I got a drone.  Then I couldn't help myself.   ;D

I also have a 25" 2560x1440 second monitor because it really makes Photoshop much easier for me with all the pallets and such on the second screen. 

When I first got the machine I was a bit disappointed because having the newer, better hardware Lightroom wasn't any faster.  Grrrrr....  That said Adobe seems to have finally heard the seething masses and it is in the process of performance improvements for Lightroom.  The latest update did provide some nice improvements in performance although not across the board but they say they're still working on it. 

From my perspective the iMac Pro is awesome.  I just wouldn't spend that much money for my use.  If you were big into 4K or 8K video or having to handle thousands of photos daily then it would make sense.  Just my $0.02
Logged
Regards,
Ron

davidgp

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 758
    • davidgp fotografia
Re: iMac vs iMac Pro
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2018, 03:43:42 am »

Hi,

This will be a wild guess, but I will expect Apple to upgrade the iMac line around June. I will expect those iMac to have the new Intel processors of 6 cores instead of 4 cores that the actual iMac uses. Now that Adobe is starting to use more than 4 cores in Lightroom, those iMac look quite interesting.

Now, if you can not wait. For just photography, I will go with the iMac over the iMac Pro. The iMac Pro will make more sense for video tasks or if you are doing very heavy focus stacking or panoramic image and you are not using Adobe software for doing that.

P.D.: BernardLanguillier, the surprise will be if Digilloyd talks about a piece of hardware that it is not from OWC or RRS that does not have very important issues.

Regards,

David

GeraldB

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 144
    • Gerald Bloch Photography
Re: iMac vs iMac Pro
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2018, 06:42:33 am »

Thanks for the replies and thoughts on this topic.
One part of my question is based on future proofness. The iMac would most likely serve me well now, but what will it feel like in 5 years? Not that the Pro solves that problem either. The best possibility as mentioned by David is an iMac upgrade the the latest 6 core non zeon processors. They too have a turbo up to 4.6Ghz but I'm not sure that all cores can get there.
Gerald

TommyWeir

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 245
Re: iMac vs iMac Pro
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2018, 01:40:46 am »

The Pro has not been updated since launch and Apple have indicated that a significant redesign will be released this year, a modular version with more future proofing and customizabiluty.  However we do not know when.   WWDC, their developer conference, is in June and is the most likely announcement date.  But who knows it may well be later. In any case I would not be buying a Pro with a view to future proofing.   The iMac Pro is the bird in your hand.

davidgp

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 758
    • davidgp fotografia
Re: iMac vs iMac Pro
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2018, 11:44:50 am »

Thanks for the replies and thoughts on this topic.
One part of my question is based on future proofness. The iMac would most likely serve me well now, but what will it feel like in 5 years? Not that the Pro solves that problem either. The best possibility as mentioned by David is an iMac upgrade the the latest 6 core non zeon processors. They too have a turbo up to 4.6Ghz but I'm not sure that all cores can get there.
Gerald

No, not all cores get there. For example, for the processor that I was mentioning, the Intel i7-8700k, Intel says it has a maximum turbo speed of 4.7 GHz. But that it is only if 1 core is being used. If 2 cores are used, the maximum turbo speed is 4.6 GHz, with 3 cores it gets down to 4.5 GHz, 4.4 GHz if 4 or 5 cores are used and 4.3 GHz if all 6 cores are used. This is the maximum, the minimum speed is 3.7 GHz. This is typical behavior for all  multi-core processors now a days.

P.D.: Even more technical note. Intel Coffee Lake processors of the "k" series, like this one I mentioned, has an special mode that allows that processor to put all its cores at 4.7 GHz in turbo speed. Intel calls that enhanced mode. This comes with a price. The processor consumes more energy and temperature gets higher. This means that first your motherboards + PSU must be able to deliver that amount of power in an stable way and you need a good cooling system to avoid any instability. I don't think Apple is going to enable this mode in their iMacs, but that it is a wild guess from my part. More information: https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3077-explaining-coffee-lake-turbo-8700k-8600k

Manoli

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2299
Re: iMac vs iMac Pro
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2018, 12:07:12 pm »

No, not all cores get there. For example, for the processor that I was mentioning, the Intel i7-8700k, Intel says it has a maximum turbo speed of 4.7 GHz. But that it is only if 1 core is being used. If 2 cores are used, the maximum turbo speed is 4.6 GHz, ...

How do these processors then compare to say an
Intel® Xeon® Silver 4110 Processor (2.1 GHz, up to 3 GHz w/Turbo Boost, 11 MB cache, 2400MHz, 8 core) ?

Typical entry level processor in an HP Z8 G4 workstation (which would cost around $400 extra over the base spec).
Logged

davidgp

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 758
    • davidgp fotografia
Re: iMac vs iMac Pro
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2018, 01:09:42 pm »

How do these processors then compare to say an
Intel® Xeon® Silver 4110 Processor (2.1 GHz, up to 3 GHz w/Turbo Boost, 11 MB cache, 2400MHz, 8 core) ?

Typical entry level processor in an HP Z8 G4 workstation (which would cost around $400 extra over the base spec).

Hi Manoli,

I haven't read too much about the new Intel Xeon Bronze/Siver/Gold/Titanium processors with the exception of benchmarking related to server-type software: https://www.anandtech.com/show/11544/intel-skylake-ep-vs-amd-epyc-7000-cpu-battle-of-the-decade/4 . That I do it for work, but these are completely different scenarios. The main problem it is that these processors are two different type of beasts.

So, for normal photographer usage, the better solution will be to go to an i7-8700k system or an i9 system if they need more cores because they also are doing some video editing. The Xeon W processors that Apple is using for their iMac Pro are more similar to these i7 or i9 than the Xeon processors HP is using.

Now, why HP decided to build their workstations with these other processors? For starters, because these processors support to be put in pairs into one system. So, you can buy two cheap Intel® Xeon® Silver 4110 Processors (they are around 400$ each) and get a 16 core system (32 core with hyperthreading). Also, these are server grade processors so they support ECC memory. It is not really important for a photographer, since memory errors are not common... but if you are running a several days simulation in one of these workstations, you will not like it to stop because a memory read/write error. Also, these processors support 48 PCI-E lines directly to the processors (the chipset adds more) vs the 16 lines of the i7-8700k, so you can put several GPUs at 16x speed directly talking with the processor, that it could be interesting for some kind of simulations. The chipset Intel gives to those Xeon processors comes already with 10Gigabit ethernet cards that could be interesting for a server/workstation place. They support up 768 GB of RAM, the i7-8700k "only" 64 GB.

At the end is a balance. For photography and even 4k vídeo editing, one of the latests i7 and i9 will be more than nice. If you are doing simulations or using software that benefits a lot of cores (Lightroom or Capture One are not the case), even if those cores are running at lower speed. Or your app benefits a lot tons of GB of RAM, etc...

Manoli

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2299
Re: iMac vs iMac Pro
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2018, 02:33:30 pm »

Hi David,

There's the 'gotch'ya' only 64Gb of RAM in the vanilla iMac v 128 in the iMac Pro. I defer to your tech expertise (I'm not buying another computer without checking w/ you first :) ) but in my experience, particularly in photography, the additional RAM doesn't go to waste. So the question is for the OP , and others myself included - at what point does the cheaper Mac become , if not obsolete, a poor decision compared to the machine w/ the additional RAM.

Or, to put it another way, 64GB of RAM, today, seems to me to the very minimum requirement looking into the future. I haven't checjked the pricing , but my gut tells me that if I was a buyer today, I'd probably be inclined to go w/ the iMac Pro and it's 128GB capacity, $$$ permitting of course.

It'd be interesting if some of us who bought the trashcan MacPro when it came out, thinking of Bernard and Chris Sanderson, could give us some real-world experiences and feedback (that is when Chris isn't too busy locking threads and deleting posts .. [/leg-pull, Chris]

Anyway, David, thanks for your input.
Best,
M



Hi Manoli,

I haven't read too much about the new Intel Xeon Bronze/Siver/Gold/Titanium processors with the exception of benchmarking related to server-type software: https://www.anandtech.com/show/11544/intel-skylake-ep-vs-amd-epyc-7000-cpu-battle-of-the-decade/4 . That I do it for work, but these are completely different scenarios. The main problem it is that these processors are two different type of beasts.

So, for normal photographer usage, the better solution will be to go to an i7-8700k system or an i9 system if they need more cores because they also are doing some video editing. The Xeon W processors that Apple is using for their iMac Pro are more similar to these i7 or i9 than the Xeon processors HP is using.

Now, why HP decided to build their workstations with these other processors? For starters, because these processors support to be put in pairs into one system. So, you can buy two cheap Intel® Xeon® Silver 4110 Processors (they are around 400$ each) and get a 16 core system (32 core with hyperthreading). Also, these are server grade processors so they support ECC memory. It is not really important for a photographer, since memory errors are not common... but if you are running a several days simulation in one of these workstations, you will not like it to stop because a memory read/write error. Also, these processors support 48 PCI-E lines directly to the processors (the chipset adds more) vs the 16 lines of the i7-8700k, so you can put several GPUs at 16x speed directly talking with the processor, that it could be interesting for some kind of simulations. The chipset Intel gives to those Xeon processors comes already with 10Gigabit ethernet cards that could be interesting for a server/workstation place. They support up 768 GB of RAM, the i7-8700k "only" 64 GB.

At the end is a balance. For photography and even 4k vídeo editing, one of the latests i7 and i9 will be more than nice. If you are doing simulations or using software that benefits a lot of cores (Lightroom or Capture One are not the case), even if those cores are running at lower speed. Or your app benefits a lot tons of GB of RAM, etc...
Logged

davidgp

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 758
    • davidgp fotografia
Re: iMac vs iMac Pro
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2018, 03:44:31 pm »

Hi,

So, here we come again to the needs that you have right now. For example, my own needs as today... editing 42 megapixels images in Lightroom with very light usage of Photoshop. I also use Final Cut X editing around 20 to 30 minutes 4K videos. I’m doing it right now confortable with a MacBook Pro of 16GB of RAM.

If I have to buy a computer today, I will probably try it to have 32 GB of RAM. What I consider the double of my actual needs. I will be comfortable with this if it is upgradable to 64 GB of RAM (and RAM right now has gone crazy and expensive due to mobile phones all using 8GB of RAM now).

So basically, my personal rule is buy the double I’m using right now... and have at least the capacity of upgrade in the future to the double of that.

But this is going to depend in each case. For example, if you are really into video, extra cores of the Xeon processors will be ideal, since video processing is highly parallel task (a powerful GPU helps too... if miners give you the opportunity of buying one at a right price).




http://dgpfotografia.com

Manoli

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2299
Re: iMac vs iMac Pro
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2018, 05:22:47 pm »

So basically, my personal rule is buy the double I’m using right now... and have at least the capacity of upgrade in the future to the double of that.

Yes, and I may well be wrong, but the new iMacs and I guess the iMac Pros aren't RAM upgradeable after the intitial buy. Once you spec & order it, that's it - you're cooked!
Logged

armand

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5565
    • Photos
Re: iMac vs iMac Pro
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2018, 07:23:25 pm »

Yes, and I may well be wrong, but the new iMacs and I guess the iMac Pros aren't RAM upgradeable after the intitial buy. Once you spec & order it, that's it - you're cooked!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/9to5mac.com/2017/06/21/how-to-upgrade-ram-2017-5k-imac-video/amp/

Manoli

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2299
Re: iMac vs iMac Pro
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2018, 08:34:33 pm »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/9to5mac.com/2017/06/21/how-to-upgrade-ram-2017-5k-imac-video/amp/

Read some of the comments to find out why it's not the best idea, and the iMac Pro isn't upgradeable other than by authorised Apple techs.

But to get back to the OP, it's a $3,700 v $4,999 question.
I agree w/ David's rationale - but I'd pay the extra bucks.  A sage person, though, would probably be wiser and save the extra $1,300 ...
Logged

armand

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5565
    • Photos
Re: iMac vs iMac Pro
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2018, 10:41:12 pm »

Read some of the comments to find out why it's not the best idea, and the iMac Pro isn't upgradeable other than by authorised Apple techs.

But to get back to the OP, it's a $3,700 v $4,999 question.
I agree w/ David's rationale - but I'd pay the extra bucks.  A sage person, though, would probably be wiser and save the extra $1,300 ...

Read them, not sure where you see the problem. Buy something recommended and ideally use just that type and keep the original Apple one handy. This seems trustworthy: https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/memory/imac-2017-27-inch
To clarify, this only refers to the new iMac 27” 5K.

I have no intention to buy it but I found this few weeks ago when I was curious about what the iMac would offer.

davidgp

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 758
    • davidgp fotografia
Re: iMac vs iMac Pro
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2018, 11:06:37 pm »

Yes, and I may well be wrong, but the new iMacs and I guess the iMac Pros aren't RAM upgradeable after the intitial buy. Once you spec & order it, that's it - you're cooked!

iMacs are user upgradable in terms of RAM (with the exception of the 21 inch model), they have a door in the back that gives access to the RAM slots and you can add more RAM. The best idea with them it is to buy the lowest amount of RAM and upgrade them via third party so you don’t pay Apple RAM prices.

iMac Pros are not user upgradable... well, unless you don’t mind forgetting about the warranty and having to dissemble half of the machine to do so...




http://dgpfotografia.com
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up