Canon Pro-1 Printer and " Art Paper Margins"

[patjoja]

I'm attempting to print on Canson Rag Photographie paper using the "Other Fine Art Paper 1" print setting recommended by Canson and the Canon printer will only let me print with "Art Paper Margin 30 or 35".  That's a lot more margins than I want to print with.

Why does Canon force you to use such wide margins with these papers?  Is there any work around.

[NAwlins_Contrarian]

I'm attempting to print on Canson Rag Photographie paper using the "Other Fine Art Paper 1" print setting recommended by Canson and the Canon printer will only let me print with "Art Paper Margin 30 or 35".  That's a lot more margins than I want to print with. Why does Canon force you to use such wide margins with these papers?

To avoid having the print head strike the paper.

Is there any work around.

You mean, other than getting a Pro-1000 with its vacuum system?* You can always tell the Pro-1 that you're using a media type that does not require the 30mm top and bottom margins, but then (1) you risk head strikes; (2) depending on exactly what you tell it, you may get 'photo' black ink instead of matte black ink; and (3) you'd probably need a new, custom-made ICC profile. FWIW, for example, IIRC if you tell the printer you're printing on Canon PM-101 Photo Paper Pro Premium Matte (which is 210 gsm and 12 mil), it requires the large top and bottom margins; but if you tell the printer you're printing on Canon MP-101 Matte Photo Paper (which is 170 gsm and 8.5 mil), it does not.

*AFAIK, this same issue with heavier 'art' papers, but not with typical coated photo papers like glossy and luster, exists with pretty much all of Canon's semi-recent 13-inch printers have, including the Pro-1, Pro-10, Pro-100, Pro 9500, Pro 9500 Mk. II, Pro 9000, and Pro 9000 Mk. II. Paper is fed in portrait orientation, and the top and bottom margins must be at least 30mm (1.18 inch), and the side margins must be at least 3.4mm (0.13 inch) on most size papers or 0.25 inch on letter-size paper. So for example, on letter-size 'art' paper, you can print a maximum 8.0x8.6 inch image on the 8.5x11.0 inch sheet; and on 13x19 inch 'art' paper, you can print an image area of 12.7x16.6 inches.

[patjoja]

To avoid having the print head strike the paper.

You mean, other than getting a Pro-1000 with its vacuum system?* You can always tell the Pro-1 that you're using a media type that does not require the 30mm top and bottom margins, but then (1) you risk head strikes; (2) depending on exactly what you tell it, you may get 'photo' black ink instead of matte black ink; and (3) you'd probably need a new, custom-made ICC profile. FWIW, for example, IIRC if you tell the printer you're printing on Canon PM-101 Photo Paper Pro Premium Matte (which is 210 gsm and 12 mil), it requires the large top and bottom margins; but if you tell the printer you're printing on Canon MP-101 Matte Photo Paper (which is 170 gsm and 8.5 mil), it does not.

*AFAIK, this same issue with heavier 'art' papers, but not with typical coated photo papers like glossy and luster, exists with pretty much all of Canon's semi-recent 13-inch printers have, including the Pro-1, Pro-10, Pro-100, Pro 9500, Pro 9500 Mk. II, Pro 9000, and Pro 9000 Mk. II. Paper is fed in portrait orientation, and the top and bottom margins must be at least 30mm (1.18 inch), and the side margins must be at least 3.4mm (0.13 inch) on most size papers or 0.25 inch on letter-size paper. So for example, on letter-size 'art' paper, you can print a maximum 8.0x8.6 inch image on the 8.5x11.0 inch sheet; and on 13x19 inch 'art' paper, you can print an image area of 12.7x16.6 inches.

I get that the paper is thicker on the 'art' papers, but I still don't understand how head strikes are avoided by having wider margins.  I am printing in BW and not using ICC profiles.  As a work around, I used Photo Paper Premium Matte which worked fine, looks great and allowed regular margins even with the Canson Rag Photographie.  But it still leaves me scratching my head regarding the Art Paper settings.

Patrick

[NAwlins_Contrarian]

I get that the paper is thicker on the 'art' papers, but I still don't understand how head strikes are avoided by having wider margins.

The wider margins are only on the paper's leading edge (the first edge of the paper that enters the printer / goes under the print head) and the paper's trailing edge (the last edge to enter). What follows is simply my understanding, because I'm not privy to the engineering details: When the paper is mid-way through, the feed mechanism supports it and holds it in position both below the print head (the part that has already gone through / been printed) and above the print head (the part that has not yet gone through / been printed). Therefore, the printer's feed mechanism has a relatively easy time holding the paper relatively flat, and more importantly, in the proper position relative to the print head. But when the leading edge passes under the print head, the paper is not yet supported below; and when the trailing edge passes under the print head, it is no longer supported above. In both of those circumstances, there is more risk of the paper not being in the right position relative to the distance between the print head and paper. Also, I suspect that the print head may move out of the way as the leading and trailing edges of art paper feed through.

How much of a problem is this? I can't really tell you, but I'm inclined to defer to Canon's engineers. I can tell you that the degree of the problem depends in part on any preexisting curl in the paper, the thickness of the paper, and the stiffness of the paper (which in turn depends in part on the thickness of the paper). The usual glossy, semi-gloss, and luster papers are probably, on the whole, less stiff (any maybe less thick) than the 'art' papers.

[Simon J.A. Simpson]

I believe the reasoning around the increased margin for some papers is that ink deposited at the beginnings and ends of the run of the paper through the printer can cause the paper to curl thus producing head strikes.  With thicker and more absorbent paper this would probably be a greater risk.

There is a work around.

From my testing (provoked by an exchange with Mark Segal) the paper selection seems to change at least three parameters:

• The amount of ink placed on the page
• The algorithm for ink placement on the page
• The margins allowable

So you can try selecting a different paper type, one which is close (e.g. Matte Photo Paper), and try printing with that.  You will have to experiment a bit and see which gives the best results.

[patjoja]

I believe the reasoning around the increased margin for some papers is that ink deposited at the beginnings and ends of the run of the paper through the printer can cause the paper to curl thus producing head strikes.  With thicker and more absorbent paper this would probably be a greater risk.

There is a work around.

From my testing (provoked by an exchange with Mark Segal) the paper selection seems to change at least three parameters:

• The amount of ink placed on the page
• The algorithm for ink placement on the page
• The margins allowable

So you can try selecting a different paper type, one which is close (e.g. Matte Photo Paper), and try printing with that.  You will have to experiment a bit and see which gives the best results.

Thank you...that makes more sense. 

Regarding the Matte Photo Paper setting, yes I agree. I just finished printing 16 or so test prints on various matte papers using the Matte Photo Paper setting for a majority of them even though  they were technically "art papers".  To my eye they printed just fine on that setting.  I did not see any curling or head strikes.  However, I was not printing on highly textured papers, only smooth surfaced papers (although most of them were fairly thick in the 300 gsm range).  Perhaps more highly textured papers are more susceptible to the head strike issue.

The things I wonder about are the other things you mentioned: amount of ink placed and ink placement algorithm. 

Patrick

 

[Simon J.A. Simpson]

The only time I have experienced head strikes was when I didn't sufficiently uncurl some paper first.  If memory serves it was a baryta coated paper.

I tried to get some information out of Canon about how the settings which were changed (amount of ink and algorithms) but they were very tight-lipped claiming that this was “confidential proprietorial information”.  I’m not sure how, but they were unrelenting.  I just wanted some  general guidance on selecting the best paper type.

I asked them, on another occasion, what the differences were between ‘Fine Art Paper 1’ and ‘Fine Art Paper 2’.  They didn't know, and despite some research, were unable to find any information.  Someone in Japan probably knows; and they’re not telling !

[pikeys]

Thank you...that makes more sense. 

Regarding the Matte Photo Paper setting, yes I agree. I just finished printing 16 or so test prints on various matte papers using the Matte Photo Paper setting for a majority of them even though  they were technically "art papers".  To my eye they printed just fine on that setting.  I did not see any curling or head strikes.  However, I was not printing on highly textured papers, only smooth surfaced papers (although most of them were fairly thick in the 300 gsm range).  Perhaps more highly textured papers are more susceptible to the head strike issue.

The things I wonder about are the other things you mentioned: amount of ink placed and ink placement algorithm. 

Patrick

Almost all of my papers{matte}are 300gsm
Here is my routine:In your print driver,,there is a setting to avoid abrasions...check it.
I counter-curl some of my papers,before I put it in the printer.{some papers are too delicate for this,so,caution is needed.
Use the "matte paper media setting ,as posted above...never any "art" settings

MikeS

[patjoja]

Almost all of my papers{matte}are 300gsm
Here is my routine:In your print driver,,there is a setting to avoid abrasions...check it.
I counter-curl some of my papers,before I put it in the printer.{some papers are too delicate for this,so,caution is needed.
Use the "matte paper media setting ,as posted above...never any "art" settings

MikeS

Thanks Mike,  this is basically what I'm doing...really, it's the only choice, so I was driven to it.  I haven't noticed curling on the papers I'm using which are generally Hah Photo Rag and Canson Rag Photographie.  My preferred paper is the Canson paper. 

Thanks again!

Patrick