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Author Topic: Qimage One softproofing  (Read 6750 times)

Jeff-Grant

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Qimage One softproofing
« on: February 20, 2018, 11:11:32 pm »

As Qimage One seems to be highly regarded here, I thought that I would look at it. I have read about its ability to sharpen images and though that good sharpening alone would be worth the price of admission. I must admit to mild disappointment that I can't see the effect as I can't work out how to zoom and don't know if the screen image represents the sharpened image.

Before I walk away,I would like to know if it's my ignorance.
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Justin

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Re: Qimage One softproofing
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2018, 04:44:38 am »

When you begin making an adjustment using DFS sharpening a magnified area appears and updates as you alter the sharpening values. The view defaults to 100% but I find it more useful to change it to 50% view. When you apply the sharpening the main image (large view) updates and shows your sharpened image. Personally, I still find it quite tricky to perfectly sharpen an image without actually making an actual print to really evaluate the sharpening. But that's probably just me and if I was printing a lot more and on a daily basis I guess experience would kick in and it would be easier to judge the sharpening output, prior to making a hard copy.
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Jeff-Grant

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Re: Qimage One softproofing
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2018, 04:59:16 am »

Making an adjustment? All I see is a choice of numbers, and now that I've had a chance to try it out again, I don't see any way to zoom so that I can get a look at the effect, and no magnified area to be seen.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 06:03:55 am by Jeff-Grant »
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Qimage One softproofing
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2018, 06:25:07 am »

Making an adjustment? All I see is a choice of numbers.

Sharpening usually is a 3 stage process and the last step, print sharpening, is hard to judge on the screen and not meant for it either. The two sharpening steps before that should happen in the image editor before Q1 is used, When the Q1 print sharpening step is reached the image-pixel-amount + scaling + PPI requested(print quality setting) + MAX-or-less-extrapolation-setting-parameters define the Q1 extrapolation and Q1 smart sharpening aimed at that sum. Either you try to do all that more elaborate in the image editor or better with Focus Magic etc or you get some experience using the Q1 smart print sharpening numbers beyond the default 5 by looking at proof prints on the papers you use and then go by the numbers.

At least that has been my way with Qimage Ultimate. For the more elaborate process that might improve on Q1's results I would recommend Bart van der Wolf's approaches to sharpening.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

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Jeff-Grant

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Re: Qimage One softproofing
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2018, 06:45:56 am »

Thanks Ernst. I’m well aware of the three stages of sharpening i’ve been using PK Sharpener for years. I also tend not to look too closely at the image after sharpening when working in colour. However, I had hoped to see a way of  softproofing when I am presented with a range of options rather than having to print a proof to see.

Perhaps I am expecting too much but I would expect that a product that sells itself on its superior sharpening technology would let me see it before committing to print.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Qimage One softproofing
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2018, 06:59:01 am »

Sharpening usually is a 3 stage process and the last step, print sharpening, is hard to judge on the screen and not meant for it either.

Correct, it is impossible to preview the ink-diffusion, which differs between media, anyway.

Quote
The two sharpening steps before that should happen in the image editor before Q1 is used, When the Q1 print sharpening step is reached the image-pixel-amount + scaling + PPI requested(print quality setting) + MAX-or-less-extrapolation-setting-parameters define the Q1 extrapolation and Q1 smart sharpening aimed at that sum.

Yes, Q1 assumes that the input image is properly sharpened (Capture+Creative sharpening).

Quote
Either you try to do all that more elaborate in the image editor or better with Focus Magic etc or you get some experience using the Q1 smart print sharpening numbers beyond the default 5 by looking at proof prints on the papers you use and then go by the numbers.

Indeed, the Q1 Output sharpening is aimed at compensating for resampling and print medium/ink losses. It also tries to preserve the same output sharpness impression if different output sizes are produced from the same source image. The default is usually a good choice for most media, unless one wants to emphasize crispness, or works with media that have pronounced ink-diffusion characteristics. Whether one uses the default or higher levels is of course also a matter of taste (I often use '6' as default, because my subjects (products/landscapes/architecture) benefit from it).

As always, GIGO rules, so if the input image sharpening is lacking in quality, the output sharpening cannot do much more than perhaps compensate somewhat for blurry input.

Cheers,
Bart
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Binartem

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Re: Qimage One softproofing
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2018, 07:39:47 am »

We are currently working to bring things like soft proofing, borders, and other features to Qimage One soon.  With that in mind, a few thoughts...

Previewing print sharpness:
As Ernst and Bart pointed out, unlike sharpening at the editing stage, there is no way to accurately preview sharpening at the final printing stage.  Diffusion (quality), media type, and other factors have too much of an influence there, so making a few small test prints to adjust sharpness is required.  Once set, Qimage One will make sure that the chosen sharpness level is carried through to images of any resolution and prints of any size.  Print sharpening should be viewed as a method to ensure that the sharpness of prints matches that of your monitor.  Once you find that sharpening level for your printer and media type, it's "set once and forget" in Qimage One since it does all the calculations necessary to carry out the sharpening for any image/print size.

Soft proofing:
Soft proofing is coming, but be aware that it has similar limitations; I'm sure most people here are aware of this but thought I'd mention it.  I use soft proofing on occasion to see how a particular profile/paper might handle certain bright colors or to get an idea of how D-max might differ on the paper.  Getting a soft proof that looks exactly like the printed output depends on many factors such as print viewing conditions (lighting), two truly accurate profiles (both a monitor profile and printer profile), and it depends on the monitor being able to reproduce the entire gamut of the printer to name a few.  As with most things related to photo printing, there is no substitute for making an actual print!

About driver previews:
While I'm on (or at least near) the subject, I thought I'd mention something that comes up occasionally.  Sometimes we hear from users who say "my prints look too bright" or "my prints look pink" and we find out that they have checked "Preview before printing" in the driver and they are judging the print by the driver preview and haven't actually made a print.  In the vast majority of cases, once we advise the user to ignore the color of the preview and make an actual print, they reply that the print looks great.  Driver previews should be used to judge general print size and alignment on the page but not color.  If you are using a printer profile, the driver is showing you "raw color" that has been profiled for the printer itself so it won't look accurate on the monitor.

Bottom line with all of the above, if you are printing on new/untested media or with a new profile or you are printing an image with critical colors, make some small test prints.  Real prints are the only way to properly review output.

Regards
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Denis de Gannes

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Re: Qimage One softproofing
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2018, 08:07:58 am »

Thanks for this post Mike it puts things in proper perspective. Looking forward to the development in future updates to Qimage One.
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sportmaster

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Re: Qimage One softproofing
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2018, 10:06:14 am »

I recently bought QU for printing on a Epson 4900 and HPZ3200.  Is there any any advantage to using Q1 software?
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Justin

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Re: Qimage One softproofing
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2018, 10:07:23 am »

Making an adjustment? All I see is a choice of numbers, and now that I've had a chance to try it out again, I don't see any way to zoom so that I can get a look at the effect, and no magnified area to be seen.


Once you've added your chosen image to the quewe at whatever size you wish to print. Double click the image. This opens up a preview. One of the options is DFS sharpening (Deep focus sharpening). As soon as you enter something in either the Amount or Radius box, a magnified preview section will appear. Your sharpening can be seen there and that's where you also alter the preview's magnification.
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Justin

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Re: Qimage One softproofing
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2018, 10:11:02 am »

EDIT: My reply was in reference to Qimage Ultimate, I've now seen you mention Qimage One. I assumed there was only one version of Qimage. Apologies if I've got this wrong.
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Denis de Gannes

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Re: Qimage One softproofing
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2018, 10:44:26 am »

EDIT: My reply was in reference to Qimage Ultimate, I've now seen you mention Qimage One. I assumed there was only one version of Qimage. Apologies if I've got this wrong.

Qimage One is a new application which can be run on Mac OS or Windows. It focus on the printing and does not have the editing features that are available in Qimage Ultimate.
Qimage Ultimate is a Windows application and will need an application like "Parallels" on a Mac with Windows installed.

See this link.
http://www.binartem.com
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Justin

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Re: Qimage One softproofing
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2018, 10:56:11 am »

Qimage One is a new application which can be run on Mac OS or Windows. It focus on the printing and does not have the editing features that are available in Qimage Ultimate.
Qimage Ultimate is a Windows application and will need an application like "Parallels" on a Mac with Windows installed.

See this link.
http://www.binartem.com




Thank you.
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Jeff-Grant

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Re: Qimage One softproofing
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2018, 08:46:27 pm »

We are currently working to bring things like soft proofing, borders, and other features to Qimage One soon.  With that in mind, a few thoughts...

Thanks Mike. Now I understand where you are coming from.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Qimage One softproofing
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2018, 03:49:53 am »

Thanks Mike. Now I understand where you are coming from.

Yes, it is less likely to happen that an Adobe developer answers questions/complaints on their products in this forum. QU customers are used to support like this, the more on the DDIsoftware.com forums :-)

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots

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Jeff-Grant

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Re: Qimage One softproofing
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2018, 05:53:52 am »

The joys of dealing with a small company. My last contact with Adobe on a forum was being yelled at for suggesting that Leica were crazy putting their faith in Adobe rather than having their own RAW software.
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jrsforums

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Re: Qimage One softproofing
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2018, 10:22:01 am »

The joys of dealing with a small company. My last contact with Adobe on a forum was being yelled at for suggesting that Leica were crazy putting their faith in Adobe rather than having their own RAW software.

Was it Adobe or one of the their rabid DNG “supporters” who purport to be all-knowing experts?
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Jeff-Grant

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Re: Qimage One softproofing
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2018, 03:01:24 pm »

Was it Adobe or one of the their rabid DNG “supporters” who purport to be all-knowing experts?

A real Adobe person: http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2010/07/leica-s2-in-the-wild.html

I said this as a user of Hasselblad software. Despite all the angst, Hasselblad's software is an integral part of the flow from shutter to file.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 03:05:26 pm by Jeff-Grant »
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enduser

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Re: Qimage One softproofing
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2018, 07:27:04 pm »

I think in Qimage Ultimate (Windows) you can "Save to File" instead of sending to a printer. I assume if you  do this you can view the monitor version of the finished image.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Qimage One softproofing
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2018, 03:20:56 am »

I think in Qimage Ultimate (Windows) you can "Save to File" instead of sending to a printer. I assume if you  do this you can view the monitor version of the finished image.

I guess an app like Print to Tiff or similar would do that as well for Q1, but will neither correctly show the print sharpening effect on the screen.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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