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Author Topic: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere  (Read 35507 times)

BernardLanguillier

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #160 on: February 25, 2018, 02:02:00 am »

He was a bad enough guy (who hired a brilliant and an attractive female lawyer), but at the end of the trial his accusers (three younger women) were lying so much and consequently were proven less credible than him (based on the factual contents of recovered emails) and he was acquited. Regrettably, as Slobodan mentioned, it's not that uncommon, that sometimes it's the accusers who lie. Had they just told the truth without any embelishments, the outcome would have been most probably diffferent and more just.

There are certainly exceptions, but a vast majority of harassement is conducted by man on woman.

How do I know? Because all of the woman I asked the question to told me they had been harassed tens of times, with various degrees of improper behaviors, while none of the man I asked had ever been harassed a single time (although most of them thought they would have liked to be harassed by some superb lady).

The fact that man think that being harassed would be cool reveals the obvious fact that harassement is significantly worsened when there is some form of "authority", such as physical strength. Man think it would be cool because they assume that they could, in last resort, leverage their superior strength to get rid of the offender.

Just saying.

Cheers,
Bernard

Tim Lookingbill

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #161 on: February 25, 2018, 02:38:59 am »

Do you actually believe that teenage boys are never sexually assaulted or molested by coaches or priests or other men in positions of authority or power?  Are you really blaming the victims?

Ya' know what's darn tootin' hard to tell when you're a young teenager is how to spot mental illness in an authority figure you trust. What's mental illness? mmh, it's the decisions they make that don't make sense to what we've been taught to be normal behavior among our brethren. A sense that we all care about one another and not just scheming to get something for nothing. Soul robbers, I call them. Just lacking basic human decency.

After graduating from high school in '78 I went showing my portfolio around offering my services as a graphic artist and bumped into a retired Marine drill sargeant at my local barbershop by the name of Columbo now working then as a public relations official for the March Of Dimes. He offered to view my portfolio at his home.

In the interview Columbo slowly directed the conversation toward personal matters regarding whether I was gay which as he pointed out as someone with experience dealing with people insisted he detects homosexual tendencies in me. I don't know what gave him that idea, maybe the cut of my jib or something. Who knows. I insisted I wasn't gay.

Columbo insisted that I watch porno films in the next room which was his bedroom to prove that I wasn't gay. This is when I soon realized I was dealing with a mentally ill person who could overpower me since he was bigger and more muscular and since being in the military knew how to take me down without a problem. I mean he had the respect and trust of the community working for the March Of Dimes and it would be my word against his if he wound up raping me or whatever.

Hell, I was just a wet behind the ears skinny teenager wanting a job as a graphic artist. I wasn't looking to get laid by a man! And so I slowly stood up and backed my way out of his home while he followed trying to convince me to watch the porno films while I kept assuring him I wasn't gay. He kept telling me that he's disappointed in me in my not being honest with myself. Ya' know the typical psycho-babble bullshit that he's learned smart, educated person who knows the ways of the world.

I kept slowly backing out all the way to my car with him following closely pleading with me to come back inside and talk it over so we can get some work done.

I got the hell out of there and when I got home told my parents. They were shocked and said I made the right decision getting out of there. Then the phone rang and my Dad answered and handed me the phone saying it's Colombo. The big military drill sargeant was balling his eyes out apologizing to me. I told him he was mentally ill for what he was attempting to do and to get some help. Work is for work and pleasure is for some other time at a mutual agreed upon place. He agreed and I hung up the phone. Never heard from him since.

Ten years later on a visit at my folks house now around age 29 my mom read me a news article in our local paper indicating Columbo had been found in his car stabbed to death by a 13 year old hispanic boy out on a huge remote sugar cane farm called Monte Cristo Ranch (where I had previously worked hauling irrigation pipe as a summer job as a kid). Columbo must've changed his mind on my mental illness diagnosis and didn't get the help he needed. He became the victim of his victimization of young boys. I'm sure in those ten years there were more he'ld victimized.

Those here who think it's the victims responsibility to get out of situations made bad because those of authority think they're entitled to act as such I have to say are just as mentally ill, out of touch with humanity and have no empathy for others.

God help ya'.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2018, 02:43:22 am by Tim Lookingbill »
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pegelli

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #162 on: February 25, 2018, 04:42:31 am »

God help ya'.
It's a telling story and there are many around. Unfortunately they are very hard to verify (not that I don't believe you) but the problem is they get all thrown into one big bag without too much critical investigation, true or not and thereby too easily extrapolated to "that's how it is".

However it's my belief that we would really need God's help if we lose due process, presumption of innocence and a chance to hear the other side. In my mind one sided stories should never be taken for the full truth at face value.
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Rob C

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #163 on: February 25, 2018, 05:39:11 am »

It's a telling story and there are many around. Unfortunately they are very hard to verify (not that I don't believe you) but the problem is they get all thrown into one big bag without too much critical investigation, true or not and thereby too easily extrapolated to "that's how it is".

However it's my belief that we would really need God's help if we lose due process, presumption of innocence and a chance to hear the other side. In my mind one sided stories should never be taken for the full truth at face value.

Amen!

Just look at the damage, without any form of trial other than unregulated, mass-media hysteria on chat channels etc. that has already ruined so many prominent figures without any formal trial whatsoever. That some may be found guilty is beyond the point, which is that so far, until tried and convicted, according to our own laws, they must be presumed innocent.

Britian is currently awash with various humanitarian aid charities being spotlighted for a variety of sex offences, some of which are said to include the hiring of prostitutes and the abuse of people (presumably victims of disaster) by some employees out on the locations they cover.

1. Now, the hiring of prostitutes is, in my opinon, not a crime but a sorry and dangerous choice when there is always the strong right (or left, or both in severe extremis) hand to offer a safer and healthier form of "satisfaction" if the urge strikes. Why should anyone give a toss - oops - about somebody else paying for his jollies instead?

2. The abuse or coercion of the people you are supposed to be helping out there, well, that should get you into deep shit. You deserve it. Can that include a professional lady of the night? I hardly think so, for that's what a prostitute is deemed to be; it's her job description. (I appreciate that this service is not gender specific.)

3. But, unless the top brass at company HQ were aware of the coercion, did nothing to stop it, it seems absurd that they should be forced, again by the uninformed media and equally uninformed public opinion, to resign for something they did not do, assist happen, or know about. It is a fantasy to imagine that top management knows about everything that happens within an organization; that requires the KGB, though even they may not know everything that goes down. That crazy media frenzy can remove from the agencies the very talents they need to keep them working and in funds to do so.

We live not only in an age of massively wide media, much if not most of it based on some idiot's imagination, but in a fantasy world of expectations where millions seem to believe they will be rich tomorrow, if not today; will get everything they crave in life for little or no effort; believe that everybody is as talented as everybody else in every way and that only unfair play is holding them back from whatever they feel to be their right. And worst of all, they demand to be judge, jury and executioner at every mock tial they decide to hold.

Of course villains need penalty. But prove the case against them first.

RSL

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #164 on: February 25, 2018, 06:11:28 am »

Do you actually believe that teenage boys are never sexually assaulted or molested by coaches or priests or other men in positions of authority or power?  Are you really blaming the victims?

Right, Farmer, there are boys who act a lot like girls. Then there are boys whou'd knock the coaches' or priests' blocks off. THOSE are BOYS!
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #165 on: February 25, 2018, 06:26:48 am »

Right, Farmer, there are boys who act a lot like girls. Then there are boys whou'd knock the coaches' or priests' blocks off. THOSE are BOYS!

Too bas odds are that the next Einstein may not fall in that category.

Cheers,
Bernard

RSL

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #166 on: February 25, 2018, 07:31:54 am »

What the hell does that have to do with anything? Something tells me Einstein wasn't molested by a Roman priest.
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KLaban

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #167 on: February 25, 2018, 07:42:29 am »

Right, Farmer, there are boys who act a lot like girls. Then there are boys whou'd knock the coaches' or priests' blocks off. THOSE are BOYS!

Yeah, sure, that's the right path, teach 'em to beat the fucking crap out of them there perverts. Sure-fire way to produce balanced and caring boys.

RSL

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #168 on: February 25, 2018, 08:12:00 am »

Balanced and caring? How about unmolested? How about locking up the molesters? Seems to me "balanced and caring" (whatever that is) ought to include getting rid of perverts.
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Manoli

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #169 on: February 25, 2018, 08:26:59 am »

Now I really have closed the door on this thread. Locked it, no; anyone who [...] just has nothing better to do can carry on, and with my very best wishes.

What happened there, Rob ? quick U-turn! [/larfing-yellow-face]
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Rob C

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #170 on: February 25, 2018, 08:34:53 am »

What happened there, Rob ? quick U-turn! [/larfing-yellow-face]


Nope, just the realisation that a sensible point of view should not remain a cry in the wilderness; rather should it be acknowledged and given support.

However, that is not to imply that I have any intention of further argument regarding my own earlier posts which, I realised a while back, is a pointless business since few listen or read in depth, but many perpetuate their versions of same, which are then accepted blindly by even more, as the reality of my voice.

:-)
« Last Edit: February 25, 2018, 08:37:59 am by Rob C »
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Manoli

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #171 on: February 25, 2018, 10:04:36 am »

Amen!

Just look at the damage, without any form of trial other than unregulated, mass-media hysteria on chat channels etc. that has already ruined so many prominent figures without any formal trial whatsoever. That some may be found guilty is beyond the point, which is that so far, until tried and convicted, according to our own laws, they must be presumed innocent.

Max Clifford, famous PR publicist, passed into the next world from cardiac arrest whilst serving an 8 year prison term.  DaveLeeTravis, a BBC DJ, was convicted of indecent assault in September 2014 for an incident dating back to 1995, but was found not guilty of the other 12 charges against him.

Operation Yewtree , instigated as a result of the Jimmy Saville revelations, woefully ill-prepared to deal with the avalanche of abuse cases and cover-ups.

True, Jimmy Saville wasn't tried - but he's do-do dead so that's probably a good enough reason why.

Sepp Blatter, the now disgraced head of FIFA, didn’t escape either - amongst his many crimes, he was also accused of sexual assault by Hope Solo, the US women’s national soccer team goalkeeper (Solo claimed that Blatter grabbed her butt during FIFA’s Ballon d’Or awards ceremony in January 2013) [/true]  snd, since he was a quintessential alt-right Nazi, was sentenced to 30 years imprisonment without parole .. [/not-true..  :)]

Add the likes of Ken Dodd , Gary Glitter, Stewart Hall et al - reputations on the scrap heap and even the octogenarian is also doing 'time'

I could go on, and on, and on ...

Of course villains need penalty. But prove the case against them first.

Yup, and no reason at all for them to 'resign' if innocent. None.
Yet many, including a couple of Government ministers, did rather than face an investigation, much less a trial.

So mass-media hysteria ? Not so much.
And, if it wasn't for the media would the 'survivors' ever have had a voice ?
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Rob C

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #172 on: February 25, 2018, 10:20:53 am »

Max Clifford, famous PR publicist, passed into the next world from cardiac arrest whilst serving an 8 year prison term.  DaveLeeTravis, a BBC DJ, was convicted of indecent assault in September 2014 for an incident dating back to 1995, but was found not guilty of the other 12 charges against him.

Operation Yewtree , instigated as a result of the Jimmy Saville revelations, woefully ill-prepared to deal with the avalanche of abuse cases and cover-ups.

True, Jimmy Saville wasn't tried - but he's do-do dead so that's probably a good enough reason why.

Sepp Blatter, the now disgraced head of FIFA, didn’t escape either - amongst his many crimes, he was also accused of sexual assault by Hope Solo, the US women’s national soccer team goalkeeper (Solo claimed that Blatter grabbed her butt during FIFA’s Ballon d’Or awards ceremony in January 2013) [/true]  snd, since he was a quintessential alt-right Nazi, was sentenced to 30 years imprisonment without parole .. [/not-true..  :)]

Add the likes of Ken Dodd , Gary Glitter, Stewart Hall et al - reputations on the scrap heap and even the octogenarian is also doing 'time'

I could go on, and on, and on ...

Yup, and no reason at all for them to 'resign' if innocent. None.
Yet many, including a couple of Government ministers, did rather than face an investigation, much less a trial.

So mass-media hysteria ? Not so much.
And, if it wasn't for the media would the 'survivors' ever have had a voice ?


I knew Max.

Rob

pegelli

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #173 on: February 25, 2018, 10:23:34 am »

Max Clifford, famous PR publicist, passed into the next world from cardiac arrest whilst serving an 8 year prison term.  DaveLeeTravis, a BBC DJ, was convicted of indecent assault in September 2014 for an incident dating back to 1995, but was found not guilty of the other 12 charges against him.

Operation Yewtree , instigated as a result of the Jimmy Saville revelations, woefully ill-prepared to deal with the avalanche of abuse cases and cover-ups.

True, Jimmy Saville wasn't tried - but he's do-do dead so that's probably a good enough reason why.

Sepp Blatter, the now disgraced head of FIFA, didn’t escape either - amongst his many crimes, he was also accused of sexual assault by Hope Solo, the US women’s national soccer team goalkeeper (Solo claimed that Blatter grabbed her butt during FIFA’s Ballon d’Or awards ceremony in January 2013) [/true]  snd, since he was a quintessential alt-right Nazi, was sentenced to 30 years imprisonment without parole .. [/not-true..  :)]

Add the likes of Ken Dodd , Gary Glitter, Stewart Hall et al - reputations on the scrap heap and even the octogenarian is also doing 'time'

I could go on, and on, and on ...

Yup, and no reason at all for them to 'resign' if innocent. None.
Yet many, including a couple of Government ministers, did rather than face an investigation, much less a trial.

So mass-media hysteria ? Not so much.
And, if it wasn't for the media would the 'survivors' ever have had a voice ?

I have no problems with any of these examples, if people get convicted after a fair process, examining the evidence and hearing both sides I'll be the first to applaud and cheer their way to prison.  It's the flipside that we need to be careful about, the people damaged by false and/or unproven claims, the 100.000 or more "me too" claims that are based on a one sided story of disgrunted people who regret their behaviour of the past but did so willingly at the time.

If you can't look at both sides of this coin you're fooling yourself. 
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pieter, aka pegelli

Rob C

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #174 on: February 25, 2018, 10:40:01 am »

I have no problems with any of these examples, if people get convicted after a fair process, examining the evidence and hearing both sides I'll be the first to applaud and cheer their way to prison.  It's the flipside that we need to be careful about, the people damaged by false and/or unproven claims, the 100.000 or more "me too" claims that are based on a one sided story of disgrunted people who regret their behaviour of the past but did so willingly at the time.

If you can't look at both sides of this coin you're fooling yourself.


Yep, revisionary history is popular in some circles.

Never mind a few/a zillion women; think the Middle East and how geography and history "improve" with every brick that gets laid.

(You  know what I absolutely hate about my iPad? Just like some people, it tries to force me into words other than my own. Quite why brick turned into brickbat I have no idea; it cost me another damned correction that I found myself pushed into making.)

:-)

amolitor

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #175 on: February 25, 2018, 10:41:44 am »

Rob, let me throw this into the ring.

Yes, there are without a doubt #metoo-ers who are just plain collecting men's scalps because they are awful. Others are merely describing bad dates in which nobody did much wrong, but they had regrets the next morning. Others were surely outright raped.

What's interesting is the middle zone where there were crossed signals, mixed communications. That grey area where HE thinks that she's having a great time, and SHE thinks that she's going along because he's powerful, even though to one degree or another she's not interested. In some of those cases, HE kinda sorta knows, but presses on anyways, because he's a jerk, and because he knows he can, and anyways he has the excuse that she hasn't started yelling yet.

You gotta know that in a big world all these things have happened.

The hell of it is that there's no way to sort out which is which, especially when we're dealing with people's memories from 20 years later.

As for why it's so asymmetrical, well, so it has always been. Women are the gatekeepers to sex, 99% of the time. It's hard to coerce a man, because he's on the other end of that, and is generally willing. And, yeah, part of #metoo exists, politically, to re-assert and maintain women's control of access to sex. #metoo is many
things, a game, a power play, and a genuine campaign for justice, and more besides.

There's a plenty of unsavoury to go around in #metoo, but some of it belongs to powerful men who have made a habit of ignoring non-verbal cues and pressed on anyways. Those guys, eh, I don't have much sympathy for those guys.
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KLaban

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #176 on: February 25, 2018, 10:46:11 am »

Balanced and caring? How about unmolested? How about locking up the molesters? Seems to me "balanced and caring" (whatever that is) ought to include getting rid of perverts.

I was raised in the East End of London and on a tough council estate. I've known many hard men who were taught to use their fists to dispense justice. Some did time and others dispensed abuse themselves.

I'm all for bringing those who abuse others to justice but using fists is no answer.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #177 on: February 25, 2018, 10:54:47 am »

I have no problems with any of these examples, if people get convicted after a fair process, examining the evidence and hearing both sides I'll be the first to applaud and cheer their way to prison.  It's the flipside that we need to be careful about, the people damaged by false and/or unproven claims, the 100.000 or more "me too" claims that are based on a one sided story of disgrunted people who regret their behaviour of the past but did so willingly at the time.

If you can't look at both sides of this coin you're fooling yourself. 

+1

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #178 on: February 25, 2018, 10:58:05 am »

...I'm all for bringing those who abuse others to justice but using fists is no answer.

We are not talking here about “dispensing justice” but about self-defense. In which case, fists, or anything else close to hand, is very much the answer.

KLaban

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #179 on: February 25, 2018, 11:07:08 am »

We are not talking here about “dispensing justice” but about self-defense. In which case, fists, or anything else close to hand, is very much the answer.

You're advocating vunerable children hitting adults? You think that's wise?
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