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Author Topic: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere  (Read 35506 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #120 on: February 23, 2018, 06:30:59 pm »

...

- If you attempt to leave, I will shoot you and your family
- If you attempt to leave, I will punch you in the face
- If you attempt to leave, I will destroy your career
- If you attempt to leave, I will make it more difficult for you to get the good gigs
- If you attempt to leave, this gig is over and you will not be paid
- If you attempt to leave, I will be very upset and sad, why do you want to HURT me?!!!
...

Oh.My.Good!!!

Andrew!!!

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

If only I knew sooner how easy it is to get laid using one of your magical phrases, I wouldn't have wasted my time (life, really) on all other pick-up lines, flowers, and dinners.

amolitor

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #121 on: February 23, 2018, 06:35:02 pm »

It seems so much simpler and cheaper, but sometimes the young lovely exercises her choice, and then there's this body to get rid of.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #122 on: February 23, 2018, 06:41:12 pm »

Does it come as a surprise that the ideology that espouses totalitarianism, government control, collectivism, i.e., lack of individual freedom to choose, is the same one denying that people have choice in getting laid?

RSL

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #123 on: February 23, 2018, 06:41:33 pm »

It's one thing if the male photographer and female model mutually agree on some extracurricular activities, and a completely different thing if the male boss in any occupation presses a woman against her will into something she'd rather not do.
 
I don't know the US Army statistics, but here are some from Canada:
Canadian Military Police have received between 134 and 201 sexual assault complaints every year since the year 2000, averaging to 178 per year. It has been further reported that one-in-thirteen women in the Canadian Forces has been sexually assaulted in connection with their military employment. According to Vice Magazine, the Royal Canadian Army Cadets is "plagued with sexual abuse allegations".

http://www.macleans.ca/culture/books/canadas-first-female-infantry-officer-breaks-silence-on-abuse/

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/soldiers-almost-twice-as-likely-to-be-sexually-assaulted-statistics-canada-says/article33066760/

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/third-sexual-abuse-class-action-suit-in-works-against-canadian-military/article33256676/

Golly. Imagine that! You put boys and girls together in a stressful situation and. . . It's amazing that no one seems to understand that any longer. After all, women are just like men. Aren't they?
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LesPalenik

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #124 on: February 23, 2018, 07:00:47 pm »

Ohm my! And all that in the liberal paradise!?

Might be related with proximity to artillery.
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LesPalenik

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #125 on: February 23, 2018, 07:03:11 pm »

Golly. Imagine that! You put boys and girls together in a stressful situation and. . . It's amazing that no one seems to understand that any longer. After all, women are just like men. Aren't they?

Yes, in some ways they are like men. For example, playing ice hockey.
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amolitor

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #126 on: February 23, 2018, 07:31:10 pm »

Honestly, I find it too difficult to have a discussion of any intricacy here. I don't know if things being mentioned are red herrings intended to distract me, responses to other remarks by other people which I may have skimmed over too lightly, or just in-jokes referring to threads I never read. Thus, I mostly end up simply stating my position and reasoning as if into a void, and hoping for the best.

My apologies if I have failed to address anything I ought to have.
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texshooter

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #127 on: February 23, 2018, 07:46:28 pm »

You know what they say about opinions...
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RSL

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #128 on: February 23, 2018, 07:49:21 pm »

Yes, in some ways they are like men. For example, playing ice hockey.

You notice that that was a girl's team, Les. It wasn't -- how shall I say it? -- a mixed bag. When you see a coed team you'll know women have become like men (in some ways).
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 10:54:02 am by RSL »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #129 on: February 24, 2018, 03:44:43 am »

The only things this is about really are harassment and abuse of power.

It hasn’t much to do with politics but it does have a cultural dimension.

But these are very real problems happening daily in front of our noses and we are probably often not reacting the way we should.

Cheers,
Bernard

Rob C

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #130 on: February 24, 2018, 04:53:42 am »

The issue is in your choice of words. No, it's not just 'an undesirable thing' - it's a criminal act.

... except when it's not. And again, that they didn't, has no relevance as to whether or not it was a criminal act

--

Rob,

Before you go - I'm sure that you mean well, but it's plainly evident that the first-hand experiences you speak of are of another era. Times change, laws with them. The world of pro fashion photography has changed with it.

Photographers are no longer the stars, the models are. Photographers survive under the patronage of the top rags. Look at the credits on some of Testino's books and you might twig.

One more thing - when and where was it that you claim you'd worked for Vogue ?



I was waiting for that, what took you so long?

From my job books, old and as tattered as they be, the best records of it that I can find today tell me this:

23-30/6/72

Amsterdam, for Vogue and IWS advertorial; I think we were based in the Apollo(?) Hotel.

4-9/7/72

Luxembourg, for Vogue and IWS advertorial - can't remember the hotel so you'll have to 'phone around yourself to find proof.

7-18/12/72

a. Lisbon
b. Algarve

For Vogue with various other clothing organizations; advertorial.
Dom Carlos hotel; Da Balaia Hotel.

11-12/1/73

Malta

Advertorial for Vogue and IWS.

Phoenicia Hotel, Valletta. (Discovered fried ice cream.)

10-18/8/73

For Vogue and IWS. Advertorial.

Cyprus.

Again, can't remember the hotel, but I'm sure you will be able to find it; it was in the south of the island.

10-13/1/74

Vogue and IWS. Advertorial.

Mallorca.

Hotel somewhere in Magalluf.

................................................................................

There may be others, all around that period, but despite being nice for the ego and CV (very!), they brough in no profit - in fact, based on the time they took to shoot and print, quite the opposite.

The irony was, most young guys chased Vogue to get advertising; for me, I was already doing advertising because there were no worthwhile mags in Scotland, and the magazine work came to me, because of the advertising work, rather than the other way around.

Best of all, I didn't once have to step into Hanover Square, doing which would have cost me more in flights than the freakin' work gave me!

If you are unfamiliar with IWS, it's the International Wool Secretariat. Another contributor to fashion trips, that I can remember today, was Monsanto. Few people floated trips without fibre company aid, hotel and airline cooperation too. Calendars, of course, were something else, with beautiful budgets.

The first trip gave me around twenty-seven pages in Vogue, and I think the smallest one gave me about nine.

Happy?

Rob
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 06:33:02 am by Rob C »
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Rob C

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #131 on: February 24, 2018, 06:40:54 am »

Yes, in some ways they are like men. For example, playing ice hockey.

And in Britain, and probably elsewhere too, they even play rugby!¡!¡

Personally, I never did enjoy touchy-touchy sport; not any kind of sport, come to think of it. Far too dangerous. Swimming was different, but though I did a lot (which I am sure contributed to unsightly, exhausted pectorals...) it never occurred to me to compete with anyone else.

Rob

Rob C

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #132 on: February 24, 2018, 06:53:36 am »

Honestly, I find it too difficult to have a discussion of any intricacy here. I don't know if things being mentioned are red herrings intended to distract me, responses to other remarks by other people which I may have skimmed over too lightly, or just in-jokes referring to threads I never read. Thus, I mostly end up simply stating my position and reasoning as if into a void, and hoping for the best.

My apologies if I have failed to address anything I ought to have.


Of course you are bombarder with red herrings, just as have my own posts been bombarded. And with worse shit than herrings. It's why I am no longer attempting to defend my position anymore: it's pointless because people can either not read, or they can but have an opposite agenda. Add to that my difficulties with hitting the keys I thought that I'd hit, correcting over and over again, and the effort just grows beyond its value to me.

Even my own pro photographic credibilty has just been attacked, but fortunately, I do have some old records of where, what and when still around, though it is a pain in the ass trying to unearth them. One look at my office would tell you why. My late wife refused to dust any part of it, God bless her.

;-)

Rob C

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #133 on: February 24, 2018, 07:07:38 am »

To be honest, Rob, your own testimony suggests that you were absolutely one of those who kept his pants zipped and looked out for the kids, and good for you. I believe you. You never were, nor would have been, part of the problem.

Yes, of course it does, and here part of the problem with all of the public posturing by the Me2 ad infinitum crowd: you only have their word for it, and will never know whether they do or do not speak the truth, the whole truth or only the convenient part of a truth.

The power of the attraction of those fifteen minutes of fame is staggering; you could almost forgive people for falling prey to it at whatever cost it may bring to somebody else.

In the end, you know what you know from your own experiences, and all the statistics, opinions, anecdotes from outside sources remain suspect.

They do say one is born alone and dies alone; maybe one also lives alone even within a crowd.

KLaban

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #134 on: February 24, 2018, 07:28:35 am »

I wish I could just turn the clock back a year or two to a time when I interacted with the folk here on LuLa as fellow photographers and technicians rather than as contributors to social media. I wish I could go back to a time when I respected them for what they did and for their knowledge and could ignore their political, religious and social standpoints. I know, it's never going to happen, it's quite impossible, but there was a time I could just turn a blind eye to the shit and go with the flow.

I wish.   

Manoli

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #135 on: February 24, 2018, 09:15:05 am »

Happy?

Neither happy nor unhappy.
I asked you only for a date and place not a blow by blow account.

Edit:
And if you want to know the why - it goes back to the Vogue centenary year when I thought I might have been able to produce a pleasant surprise - I couldn't. Nothing to do with being 'attacked'.

« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 09:27:39 am by Manoli »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #136 on: February 24, 2018, 11:09:50 am »

To keep things related to photography and to sum up this verbose discussion with something that speaks 1000 words, here is my best visual advice to Hollywood starlets and would-be models:

Manoli

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #137 on: February 24, 2018, 11:15:09 am »

... it's pointless because people can either not read, or they can but have an opposite agenda.

I can read, know nothing of any 'agenda' and dare say my grasp of the English language is every bit as accomplished as yours. These are your own words:

... for one simple reason: the "victim" has always been free to get up and walk out of the situation. If she or he chooses not to do that, decides it's in his or her best interest to play along, then there really is no case to contest. It is a choice.

So you need to understand what's so offensive about that.

The victim is NOT always, as you put it, 'free to walk'  - which is why coercion is now classified as a duress crime. Whether or not the victim was free to walk, had other ways out or could have adopted other evasive actions has ZERO bearing on the perpetrator's culpability. Nada.

If you can grasp that, you'll perhaps begin to understand 'the agenda' of those that find your position so unpalatable.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #138 on: February 24, 2018, 11:21:08 am »

... The victim is NOT always, as you put it, 'free to walk'  - which is why coercion is now classified as a duress crime....

Ah, those pesky exceptions that prove the rule!

Btw, care to cite a statute about that "duress crime"?

Rob C

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Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #139 on: February 24, 2018, 11:23:16 am »

The issue is in your choice of words. No, it's not just 'an undesirable thing' - it's a criminal act.

... except when it's not. And again, that they didn't, has no relevance as to whether or not it was a criminal act

--

Rob,

Before you go - I'm sure that you mean well, but it's plainly evident that the first-hand experiences you speak of are of another era. Times change, laws with them. The world of pro fashion photography has changed with it.

Photographers are no longer the stars, the models are. Photographers survive under the patronage of the top rags. Look at the credits on some of Testino's books and you might twig.

One more thing - when and where was it that you claim you'd worked for Vogue ?

Claim?

So, you want me to believe that line was not loaded with grapeshot?

FYI, I stopped buying Vogue when the Scottish fashion industry started to slide, and neither the American fibre folks nor the Australian wooll moguls were able/interested in subsidising advertising for their clients. That coincided with the 70s oil crisis, pretty much, and by the time of the Cyprus invasion in '74 I had already closed my rented studio because of the slowdown in fashion work, and had decided to do nothing but location shoots at home or abroad. (I remember that invasion because it happened a fortnight after our return from Cyprus for our first big calendar production.)

Even worse than the overall economy, was the fact that surviving clients were lured to buy from London, where PR ladies could provide manufacturers in Scotland with perfectly good studio photography for very little money, certainly for far less than floating a trip anywhere.

As luck would have it, a little flurry of new clients came along after a few months, and I was obliged to build a studio alongside our house or have to refuse the work. At that time we had no ideas about leaving the UK to live abroad. The only Vogue I paid for after the mid-70s was the first-edition of Spanish Vogue which came out during our early years here. I still have it, along with a first-edition of the short-lived, revived Nova magazine, which it did not surprise me was short-lived: nothing but Tracey Emin, swearing, and some German photographer whose name I can't remember. Neither a Feurer nor a Peccinotti in sight.

Anyway, if I misunderstood your intent, then I apologise.
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