Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 11   Go Down

Author Topic: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere  (Read 35526 times)

Enrico M

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4
LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« on: February 20, 2018, 01:53:40 pm »

This is a forum with the focus on photography.

You delude yourselves.

In the early, pioneering years of digital,  LuLa under the expertise and guidance of Michael Reichmann , became known as an 'authority' – so much so that even NatGeo rated it amongst the top 100 sites on the internet.

Those days were marked by informed technical articles, valued reviews (and critiques) of new equipment, 'How-to' and 'Understanding' essays amongst others – not least of which were Michael's personal outlooks and commentary on the industry. A man not afraid to speak his mind , and not one to shy away from controversy.

He took both praise and, at times, not undeserved flak. Who remembers the commotion over his  review of the Leica M8 ?

Amongst all this there was a vibrant forum. One where rising participation engulfed the occasional conflict and partisanship. Rather than shy away or close it down he more often than not contributed too.  In the same way that the Rob Galbraith site had done before him – (The site and forum closed when Rob left to go into private employment).

Today, with LuLa clearly on a slippery slope to oblivion – the authoritative articles are long gone, the professional participation having dwindled to less than a handful (and they only fitfully), there remain few commendable features.

You'd rather have endless discussions from outright fanboys on the merits of Nikon v Canon, a readership where I doubt the average age is below 60 and an atmosphere more suited to a retirement home than the vibrant place LuLa once was.

And yes – the Coffee Corner was a positive.
But you just had to go and neuter it, didn't you?

In case you hadn't noticed, The Coffee Corner and its political and current affair debates, actually added to general interest in the site (nothing else has) – and you go ahead and not just close down, but delete whole threads, that offended your deluded notion essentially resting on Michael's laurels.

Those deleted threads represented many hours, not to say days and weeks, of mostly informed and interesting posts. They represented serious man-hours  of contributions. Sure, at times there was friction and not just in the Coffee Corner section. More or less the only thing Michael drew the line on was profanity and whether or not we crossed the site's etiquette red line by typing 'bullshit' instead of 'BS'.

There was more interest in all those Trump, Brexit and Climate Change threads (and several more) than the whole of the LuLa site in one.  I know of several people who logged in just to read Schewe's daily Trump commentary – not something that can be said of any other part of this site. The Brexit thread had more views and contributions than any other thread – that is until Trump came along – and then only in posts, not in views.

Yet, in your wisdom, you chose to not just lock the threads, but delete them – what a novel way to encourage people to post on your forum!

In their place what do you offer ? A  review on Capture One 11 – blatantly reproduced  verbatim from another web site, with the arrogance to announce that you've just 'published' it – even though it was already freely available to one and all on The Image Alchemist'  web site since November last year.  A Lens review (Loxia) where the lenses weren't even correctly focused and some post processing articles - more akin to a 'painting by-numbers' how-to – titbits so puffed up, they could have been condensed  to a single 80 word paragraph.

So , feel free – delude yourselves all you want.
Be an outpost for your trips and workshops by all means, but still relevant and an informed source ?
Not so much … and not because of any heated discussions in the coffee shop.

Goodnight and good luck!
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 02:26:16 pm by Enrico M »
Logged

Eric Myrvaagnes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 22814
  • http://myrvaagnes.com
    • http://myrvaagnes.com
Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2018, 03:07:55 pm »

Enrico,

With just two posts in the slightly over two years that you have been a member of LuLa, I don't consider you an expert on the history of LuLa, nor do I see any evidence that you speak for anyone other than yourself. You certainly don't speak for me.

Eric M.
Logged
-Eric Myrvaagnes (visit my website: http://myrvaagnes.com)

Kevin Raber

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1339
  • Kevin Raber
    • Kevin Raber
Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2018, 03:12:26 pm »

Sorry, you feel that way.  Seems we have a whole lot of people agree with us in stopping the political discussions.  We let it go on as long as we could before it went off the tracks.  Thus my decision to keep the focus on photography.  That's just the way it's going to be. 

As far as content I am wondering if you are mixing our site up with another site.  We have not reviewed any Loxia lenses or done any major post-processing articles (paint by the numbers).  We have been featuring a very well received Shooting with the Masters video as well as The Leica story. Plus we have also produced numerous reviews and aesthetic articles about photography.  The Capture One review was well done and by republishing it on LuLa we gave it a much wider audience.  We are fortunate to have a number of contributors who like to share their knowledge in their articles. 

Workshops have been a part of LuLa for many years and will continue to be a great place to meet our readers and enjoy photography together.  As far as being relevant I believe we are just that. 

We are a small team very dedicated to this site and offering good and different content for those interested in photography.  Feel free to contribute an article and share your knowledge anytime.





Logged
Kevin Raber
kwr@rabereyes.com
kevin@photopxl.com
rockhopperworkshops.com
photopxl.com

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18090
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2018, 03:32:38 pm »

... There was more interest in all those Trump, Brexit and Climate Change threads (and several more) than the whole of the LuLa site in one...

But hey, Let's See Your Pets thread is threatening to catch up, with 200+ posts and 18K views so far  ;)

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20646
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2018, 03:53:24 pm »

But hey, Let's See Your Pets thread is threatening to catch up, with 200+ posts and 18K views so far  ;)
Yes but lovely photo of pets (key word is photo considering the site) and everyone behaving splendidly.
Logged
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".

Chairman Bill

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3352
    • flickr page
Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2018, 04:21:26 pm »

I'm appalled and offended by this website's focus (excuse the pun) on photography rather than politics. I'm seriously considering flouncing off somewhere else. No, really.

DP

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 727
Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2018, 04:28:15 pm »

In their place what do you offer ? A  review on Capture One 11 – blatantly reproduced  verbatim from another web site, with the arrogance to announce that you've just 'published' it – even though it was already freely available to one and all on The Image Alchemist'  web site since November last year.

LuLa posted review written by "Paul Steunebrink" who in fact is that very same "Image Alchemist"... so ? why Paul didn't make it sufficiently better for LuLa ? why shall he ?
Logged

DP

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 727
Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2018, 04:30:35 pm »

but still relevant and an informed source ?

just read few selected topics (or rather authors) in the forum, you do not really need to read the site itself ...
Logged

Rand47

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1882
Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2018, 10:49:04 pm »

There’s no doubt that Michael was unique.  And there’s no doubt that it is impossible that LULA would not be different without him.  But I find the OP’s post offensive in it’s “tone.”  There’s no need for recrimination.  If you no longer find LULA valuable, there are lots of other options, especially if you’re fond of arguments and ad hominem attacks.

It’s just not so simple.  Nothing in life is.  I’ve even posted a similar sentiment in the past but only as regards lamenting the loss of “the good old heady days” when things were changing fast. I’ll guess we were all soaking up everything we could to understand, learn, and execute in this new world of digital. 

Most cameras on offer today are excellent.  Finding meaningful things to differentiate has become more and more a fool’s errand in search of anything one could see in a print.  Speaking of prints, printer technology has also matured.  The pace of change has slowed a lot.  It is now incremental and evolutionary rather than huge leaps and reveolutionary.

As to expertise, there’s no lack of that here.  I continue to learn almost every time I visit the site and hit my ‘regular’ pages.

The With the Masters series is really excellent, and very valuable to me in my growth.  Other stuff, not as much.  As to politics... good bye and good riddance.  It served no worthwhile purpose here.

Rand
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 10:55:40 pm by Rand47 »
Logged
Rand Scott Adams

pegelli

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1664
    • http://pegelli.smugmug.com/
Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2018, 02:23:16 am »

Second post in 2 years, I think we should take the advice from such a loyal contributing member very serious ;)

In the meantime my thought is that if you think anybody here will take your post seriously you delude yourself.




Logged
pieter, aka pegelli

LesPalenik

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5339
    • advantica blog
Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2018, 04:05:47 am »

Quantity (of posts) is not indicative of Quality.
There are posters with thousands of posts, half of them consisting of: "+1", "this image would look better in B&W", and "Moderator, come and close this thread", whose qualitative output is not worth writing home about. And some low-frequency posters can bring here rare insights and gems.
 

Logged

pegelli

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1664
    • http://pegelli.smugmug.com/
Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2018, 04:14:56 am »

Quantity (of posts) is not indicative of Quality.
There are posters with thousands of posts, half of them consisting of: "+1", "this image would look better in B&W", and "Moderator, come and close this thread", whose qualitative output is not worth writing home about. And some low-frequency posters can bring here rare insights and gems.
+1, but the OP doesn't fall into that category for me :)
Logged
pieter, aka pegelli

Enrico M

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4
Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2018, 06:17:05 am »

As to politics... good bye and good riddance.  It served no worthwhile purpose here.

I'd agree with much of your post – except for this.

It may have been inadvertent, even unexpected but the political threads of the Coffee Corner attracted interest. It was a part of LuLa that did indeed differ from other sites - interest and new blood is exactly what this site, post-Michael needs, and if the Coffee Corner ended up being a magnet that could attract new blood – so be it.

Chopping it off at the knees doesn't help subscriptions. They're not increasing because LuLa has suddenly become more benign. If anything, the contrary - and deleting whole threads as opposed to simply locking them adds to the damage.

As for vitriol and raised blood pressures – well, there was enough of that on cameras and ICC profiles. 'Pistols-at-dawn' more often than not. Pros having a go at each other in the MF section, often the order of the day. Michael understood the benefits of 'largesse' and benefited as a result. as did Rob Galbraith before him.

Personally, I've got no interest in political discussions – but, based on empirical observation, the downsides of the current policy are plainly evident.  The 10 pages of the most 'Recent Posts' are an indication of what's happening. In Michael's time you were lucky if you caught the last 8-hours, first to last post.  Lately, it'll probably cover the last 24/36 hours – and 8 threads locked on just the first page of the Coffee Corner doesn't help.

I'd hazard a guess and say that that is no indication of an increasing membership.

Add to that, that I've lost count of the number of posters who no longer frequent this place but are now to be found on Fred Miranda and GetDPI.  The only sub-forums with a healthy 'pro'-presence are the 'Motion” and 'Print' sections. At least there one doesn't have to wade through pages and pages of Canon v Nikon repetitions. If there were threads to be closed, the canikon ones are prime candidates.

In the final analysis, only Kevin and the LuLa 'board' know the true subscription figures.  I wish them well and hope LuLa survives in a 'post-Michael' world.

In the investment world , one sage piece of advice is 'cut your losses and let your profits run' – I'd suggest that the Coffee Shop was just such a 'profit' – harness it, don't neuter the one part of LuLa that could easily attract new blood – albeit in an unconventional manner.
Logged

bjanes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3387
The OP Lacks Perspective
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2018, 07:49:06 am »

With only 2 previous posts, the OP lacks perspective on the evolution of LuLa.

A seminal post by Michael in January 2009 reported on the Canon D30. Previous digital dSLRs from Nikon and Kodak were available but they were very expensive and not practical for most of us. At that time, many of us entered digital by using a 35 mm SLR with Kodachrome or Provia and scanning the transparency. I was using a Polaroid Sprintscan which had a resolution of 4000 ppi with a resulting 65 Mp file. It was hard to believe that the 3.3 MP Canon could produce images competitive with the scanned transparencies, but over a series of articles Michael made us aware of the potential of digital dSLRs.

Today, the technology has matured and it is hardly possible for Kevin and his staff to write such a ground breaking article. Mirrorless is an advance and Kevin reports in it, but many of us find that dSLRs are adequate for our purposes. We all miss Michael, but he was on the ground floor of digital and it was easier for him to post breakthrough articles. LuLa today is less exciting to me, but it still is a valuable source of what is going on in photography.

Regards,

Bill
Logged

Christopher Sanderson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2694
    • photopxl.com
Re: The OP Lacks Perspective
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2018, 08:03:36 am »

A seminal post by Michael in January 2009 reported on the Canon D30. ....

Actually the year 2000/2001. When the site moved over to Member Press, many of the legacy pages were erroneously dated 2009
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 08:12:48 am by Chris Sanderson »
Logged

DP

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 727
Re: The OP Lacks Perspective
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2018, 08:06:07 am »

LuLa today is less exciting to me
And is there anything that excites you nowadays at all ?
Logged

Ray

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10365
Re: The OP Lacks Perspective
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2018, 08:51:04 am »

With only 2 previous posts, the OP lacks perspective on the evolution of LuLa.

Why do you say that, Bill? I'm sure there are many folks who have been reading LL in the past, for a long time, without subscribing.

Enrico has expressed his opinion very well. The nature of the title, Coffee Corner, implies its for a discussion in a cafe, over a cup of coffee, by a group of photographers.

Can you imagine, if a group of photographers were to meet in a cafe, there would be a rule that all discussions should only relate to photography? That would seem a bit restrictive to me.  ;)
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18090
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2018, 09:19:53 am »

How the times have changed!

Were he alive today, there would be marches on the street by today's Über-Puritans and professional outragers, requesting Michale's site to be shoot down as misogynistic, sexist, etc. Remember how many members threatened to cancel (or did) their membership then? Over the Lolita thread?

Christopher Sanderson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2694
    • photopxl.com
Re: The OP Lacks Perspective
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2018, 09:32:54 am »

Why do you say that, Bill? I'm sure there are many folks who have been reading LL in the past, for a long time, without subscribing.

Enrico has expressed his opinion very well. The nature of the title, Coffee Corner, implies its for a discussion in a cafe, over a cup of coffee, by a group of photographers.

Can you imagine, if a group of photographers were to meet in a cafe, there would be a rule that all discussions should only relate to photography? That would seem a bit restrictive to me.  ;)

Yes, it is obviously restrictive. IMO it is the nature and content of discourse that has changed. This in turn has lead to the restriction on content. I do not believe that the style of moderation has changed but the demand for it certainly has increased markedly.

I have been performing janitorial duty within this forum since its beginnings. It has only been in the past two years or so that the content and manner of heated discussions has become intolerable to many and the demands for Moderator intervention tediously frequent. The Forum used basically to moderate itself. Sic transit...

PeterAit

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4559
    • Peter Aitken Photographs
Re: LuLa - on a one way ticket to nowhere
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2018, 09:59:24 am »

I disagree with most of what the OP said except about the Coffee Corner. The description of the CC forum, which has since been changed, used to invite non-photographic topics. So what if there are political etc. threads? No one has to read them. And deleting them - as opposed to just closing them - smacks of censorship. As long as the focus of Lula stays photographic, what's the harm in having a few off-topic threads?

At least Kevin has spared the Touch of Humor thread that I started long ago <g>!
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 11   Go Up