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Author Topic: Are prints really the best way to display pictures?  (Read 1557 times)

Mark D Segal

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Re: Are prints really the best way to display pictures?
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2018, 01:23:11 PM »

Your work on the file and the detailed explanation is very useful for me. Thank you. If I may ask a question off topic. How did you compare the two soft proofs? I ask this because when I put two soft proofs/virtual copies side by side in Lightroom develop module's compare view I believe that only the "Proof copy" is under softproof mode and the "Master" is not.

You are welcome.

I do this by flipping the profiles, and viewing the different profile versions one after another under softproof. So it's sequential rather than parallel. It's a bit awkward, but with some experience it works. Of course the more usual situation is comparing a master with a soft-proof so that is what the application is primarily designed to deal with.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Panagiotis

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Re: Are prints really the best way to display pictures?
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2018, 01:33:51 PM »

You are welcome.

I do this by flipping the profiles, and viewing the different profile versions one after another under softproof. So it's sequential rather than parallel. It's a bit awkward, but with some experience it works. Of course the more usual situation is comparing a master with a soft-proof so that is what the application is primarily designed to deal with.

Thank you.
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: Mark, Tim, I really appreciate your feedback
« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2018, 05:11:53 PM »

If I may use a rather grand word in this respect: it's an artistic choice to not (as Tim put it) 'ramp out the shadows' and accept the 'garish saturated colour' (again Tim's words) as this is exactly how gold looks like when bathed in abundant morning sunshine.

I rather feel that you have been looking a bit too much at the pure technical side of the picture rather than appreciating it (as I do)  as a memory of a special, rather magic morning (by the way: this is the Marienmünster in Dießen, Bavaria. One of the most important and beautiful Baroque buildings in Bavaria).


Oh! That's gold bathed in morning sunlight?! Didn't know it looks a burnt orange. Had no idea going by your posted image so I guess the print isn't going to show what it should look like either. Doing a search on gold lit by sunset in a number of religious cathedrals I didn't come across not one picture of gold looking burnt orange. This is what gold lit by the sun or sunset looks like...

http://c8.alamy.com/comp/DCTBK3/gold-domes-and-spires-of-church-of-nicholas-ukrainian-orthodox-church-DCTBK3.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-l0Q7wdvGmGw/URWPJG_SF1I/AAAAAAAACR0/ojpgTT5CMuM/s1600/Green+%2526+Gold+Dome+Basilica+di+San+Marco.jpg

So the print isn't the problem. It's your post processing and/or camera profile you're using. May I suggest you try out other camera profiles to see if you can get more yellow in that burnt orange gold. Below you'll see orange turn to yellow in clouds between a custom dual illuminant vs Adobe Standard profile.

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enduser

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Re: Are prints really the best way to display pictures?
« Reply #43 on: February 13, 2018, 05:59:20 PM »

On the original posted 4721 x 3161 image, just hit "image", "Auto color" in photoshop and much of the marble loses much of its its blueish tint.  You'd have to see the original building before deciding if the gold is "wrong". Early morning sun looks very different to mid-day sun.
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pearlstreet

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Re: Are prints really the best way to display pictures?
« Reply #44 on: February 13, 2018, 10:27:41 PM »

Michael, that is a beautiful scene. I don't see any garish colors - it's lovely. I would print this on hahnemuhle gloss baryta 320 as it would give the scene the tonal depth it needs. You can get this to look better on print - whether it looks better on a monitor is a personal choice. I sell prints so they have to look better when printed. :-)
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: Are prints really the best way to display pictures?
« Reply #45 on: February 14, 2018, 03:45:30 PM »

Can someone show me where the gold is in this screengrab of the full size shot? When did gold become brownish, reddish orange?

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Garnick

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Re: Are prints really the best way to display pictures?
« Reply #46 on: February 14, 2018, 06:11:41 PM »

Can someone show me where the gold is in this screengrab of the full size shot? When did gold become brownish, reddish orange?

Well Tim, on my calibrated and profiled NEC PA271 display, when I enlarge the image I can see quite clearly a number of regions that show gold tones.  I do agree that some midtones and deeper tone are bordering on the red/orange cast, but certainly not the whole image.  Of course there is one rather important difference between my setup and your's.  As mentioned, my display is indeed properly calibrated and profiled.  Some of your replies on this thread and others tend to give the impression that your display has probably never seen an i1 Display Pro in action, and certainly not any sort of profiling.  The FACT that you relentlessly expound the excellence of the Walmart prints(always the same ones) that you use to make your point, in itself makes a glaring point.  I will give you credit though, since you seem to have found a perfect match of print to display by sending sRGB files to the local Walmart and not bothering to try printing them yourself.  I suspect that your recent addition to your volume of Walmart stocks are doing quite well, since you would seem to be their most voluminous photo customer.

Have a great evening Tim,

Gary     
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 09:00:17 AM by Garnick »
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LuLa - The source of ALL! -- "There's nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept" -- Ansel Adams
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Are prints really the best way to display pictures?
« Reply #47 on: February 14, 2018, 06:16:01 PM »

Can someone show me where the gold is in this screengrab of the full size shot? When did gold become brownish, reddish orange?

I don't think this is worth spending a heap of time discussing. You would need to have been at the scene at the time to know whether the photographic representation is a reasonable facsimile of the scene, and in particular after allowing for a certain amount of "artistic license" in the rendition. The time of day, any tint in the windows through which the sun's raised would have passed, and indeed the native colour of the alter finishing itself would all influence the rendered colours in ways that those not present could only speculate about.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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pearlstreet

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Re: Are prints really the best way to display pictures?
« Reply #48 on: February 14, 2018, 06:34:34 PM »

Yes, your responses Tim are antagonistic and inappropriate. There is no reason to be so insulting.
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michaelsh

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Thank you, Sharon
« Reply #49 on: February 15, 2018, 06:45:34 AM »

Michael, that is a beautiful scene. I don't see any garish colors - it's lovely. I would print this on hahnemuhle gloss baryta 320 as it would give the scene the tonal depth it needs. You can get this to look better on print - whether it looks better on a monitor is a personal choice. I sell prints so they have to look better when printed. :-)

I don't have the Hahnemühle but have Canson Baryta 310 and will give it a try.

And I have just rediscovered my MultiSync PA242W (bought a couple of years ago and for reasons I can't remember (sigh) dismissed in favour of my Thinkpad P70 with 4K display) and found out that it allows me to create 3D LUTs based on specific paper ICC profiles and that it emulates the final prints quite nicely - better than softproofing in PS, in my opinion!

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