Who will be the first printer manufacturer to confront this urgent problem?

[howardm]

It's NEVER 'their cost'.  They just pass it along to the consumer.

[BrianWJH]

Which as a responsible consumer we should accept.

Brian.

[deanwork]

HP has also had a recycling program for some time now. I am in the US.

Hp has a pretty extensive recycling program that not only includes used ink carts but also all kinds of hardware. I think the corporations are ahead of the consumers in a lot of ways. We're just spoiled and lazy.

https://h30248.www3.hp.com/recycle/supplies/choose-return-materials-hpe.asp?__cc=us&__la=en

Every ink cart that I order comes with a leak proof bag in which to return the ink cart to send them for recycling at their facility.

In most of of Asia and I believe the EU as well ( Europeans can better fill us in ) Epson and other desktop units have been required to use environmentally friendly solutions such as refillable carts to prevent landfill waste. This may be on a country by country basis, as national regulations vary. I just haven't researched it lately, it may be technologically in flux as to the local requirements. But I do know they were talked about a lot a few years ago when people were trying to import these printers into the US.

Obviously Epson was concerned about offering such a solution in the Americas as many users could easily take the next step of pouring 3rd party compatible inks into those carts. Epson being primarily an ink company, would fight that as long as possible. In their current photo printers they have gone so far as to put ink cart recognition software in the circuit boards that will permanently disable the total function of those printers when non Epson refillable carts are loaded into the printer. The days of resetting the chips on third party carts for refilling with Epson large format printers are over unless you replace major circuit boards,  that even if doable, would void your warranty.

Right now third party companies still do sell refillable inkcarts for HP and Canon printers and the inks to put in them as well as carts that come already filled with compatible inks.
https://www.inkjetcarts.us

Personally I wouldn't use any of these color ink clones for reasons of longevity if nothing else. And since HP and Canon don't sell ink in bulk most of us don't consider that option, though some obviously do or they wouldn't be selling them.

In the case of all three companies I can understand their concern about these 3rd party refillable ink systems as they are ink selling companies not hardware companies. The smaller the ink carts the more the profit. And a huge percentage of us printmakers are not using their papers either ( except for the new rebranded Canson paper introduced recently, which was a smart move by the way.)

As Jeff mentioned Epson came out with an Eco desktop printer that they have advertised a lot this year, even on the radio, for the U S market that comes loaded with "a years worth" of ink. Then you return the printer for refilling. This currently seems to apply only to the low end amateur printers. That kind of situation is obviously impractical for large format printers or even any photo printers that crank out lots of media in a years time for professional or semi-professional art and design purposes.

So, if they want to help the environment, at a minimum they need convince users to recycle every cart and actually give us a credit on the next purchase to send them back. To me that seems the only way to convince the majority of people, especially Americans, to participate in the program. It's not rocket science. It's just  common sense.

John

The feeling of producing a quality print that meets one's expectations is truly wonderful, and I thank Lula for it's "back to the print" campaign.

However, this immensely satisfying feeling must now coexist with the knowledge that the current way of keeping the printer operational is contributing to an intensifying environmental disaster. The Financial Times has a very readable article on the topic of plastic pollution in general. In short, the problem is probably far worse than you might imagine, unless you've been paying close attention to the issue, in which case you know it already. The article links to an excellent set of fine art photos by Mandy Barker, whose work I was previously unfamiliar with.

All those plastic ink cartridges, the many plastic maintenance cartridges we go through -- the "use once, toss them out" model is now clearly proven to be unsustainable and in fact highly destructive. There has to be a better way.

May I request of the Lula team: can you please ask your contacts in the printer manufacturers what their plans are to confront this problem, and share the results with us in an article? The bottom line: we need to be able to refill printers with ink and run them without creating additional plastic waste. Even if they have nothing important to say today, I hope they will pass the request for information up the chain to the important decision-makers and planners.

While naturally the plastic used in printing pales in comparison to some other human activities, that's not the point: the point is that many product and consumption processes need to be done better, one industry at a time. And this is our industry, whether we are enthusiasts or pros.

[Farmer]

It's NEVER 'their cost'.  They just pass it along to the consumer.

To some degree, yes, but the market is extremely competitive and price sensitive.  By and large, prices continued to decline (as is the trend in printers - particularly consumer) after introduction of stewardship requirements here in Australia.  Of course, if many more people start using the services then costs might increase to the point that more needs to be passed back.  The key, though, is that they are able to use significant volumes to make it worthwhile for recyclers to take the items which helps to reduce costs (they're certainly not being recycled for free).

As Brian says, though, as consumers we need to be prepared to accept those costs.

[hogloff]

Quite true!  Our county has a public recycling and waste transfer center.  I've made several trips out there in recent weeks taking used and/or no longer functioning electronics.  There are usually 1-2 others who are doing the same thing.  Every visit shows large bins of computers, monitors, computer parts, etc that would dwarf the number of ink cartridges that are consumed each year.  I assume that much of this stuff is shipped to the far east for recycling and or repurposing.

Yes, that is our dirty secret, shipping our problems elsewhere. Many people getting sick taking apart chemical laden electronics for a living.

[Joe Towner]

Now that Canon has their EcoTank competitor I really really want to see an end to all home printing with the little cartridges.  It comes down to a push by the retailers and manufacturers to push it and start increasing the prices for new ink on the old printers.  I've been pushing the Epson ever since it came out - EcoTank is made for families where kids just want to hit print.

The recycle programs are all scrambling due to the changes in China's import laws around recyclable materials.

[Peter McLennan]

Epson being primarily an ink company

Not true.  In fact, I don't believe Epson actually makes the inks they sell.  Seiko/Epson is primarily an engineering and hardware company.

Personally I wouldn't use any of these color ink clones for reasons of longevity

YMMV. I have used third party inks in nearly a dozen printers for nearly two decades. With pigment inks, fading is not an issue. Prints hung in direct sunshine in my residence show zero fading after more than ten years.  More than I can say for my Cibachrome prints.

The smaller the ink carts the more the profit.

Absolutely true.

As Jeff mentioned Epson came out with an Eco desktop printer that they have advertised a lot this year, even on the radio, for the U S market that comes loaded with "a years worth" of ink. Then you return the printer for refilling.  That kind of situation is obviously impractical for large format printers or even any photo printers

Not true.  Eco Tank printers are user-refilled effortlessly from 70ml squeeze bottles.  I own one. It makes superb prints, as I said in an earlier post on this thread.

 

It's not rocket science. It's just  common sense.

Agreed.  Common sense dictates that printers are easily and economically refilled by users. Unfortunately, business thinks otherwise.

What's really stupid about the carts business model from the customer's point of view is that they inhibit the very purpose of the device in the first place - PRINTING.

[Farmer]

Not true.  In fact, I don't believe Epson actually makes the inks they sell.  Seiko/Epson is primarily an engineering and hardware company.

Epson develops and produces their own inks - aqueous dye and pigment, solvent, dye sub, direct to fabric, and so on.

Not true.  Eco Tank printers are user-refilled effortlessly from 70ml squeeze bottles.  I own one. It makes superb prints, as I said in an earlier post on this thread.

The second generation models also offer keyed bottles (can't put the wrong colour in) and basically drop-free - no mess.  There really isn't a downside and as someone mentioned for families with kids printing all the time, or small office environments (or large ones where you get the ink bag models that have up to 80,000 prints worth of ink) it makes so much sense.

Agreed.  Common sense dictates that printers are easily and economically refilled by users. Unfortunately, business thinks otherwise.

Smaller carts don't equal bigger profits.  There are huge costs for manufacturer and shipping and storage for small carts compared to large ones or tanks, but maintaining control over quality and consistency is also harder with larger supplies (making sure the ink is good on day one and in 2 years time).  Of course, businesses also need to change manufacturing lines and printer designs and so on, AND overcome a consumer mentality of wanting to buy the cheapest possible product - i.e. get them to recognise the value in having up to 2 years' worth of ink at time of purchase, even though it's a larger outlay to begin with (it's definitely cheaper in the long run).

[enduser]

South Korea is an interesting case.  Third party inks are the most commonly used there and they have a strong manufacturing base with companies like InkTec who manufacture their own design LF printers and inks including dye sublimation, water-based dye & pigment, solvent, eco solvent, mild solvent, oil inks and conductive inks for electronics.
I'm not sure that such a source isn't up to scratch on all metrics.

[dhachey]

There are ways to encourage plastics recycling, namely by taxing their use and giving a credit for recycling. The level of taxation should high enough to encourage participation.  Part of the tax revenue could be used for environmental remediation.  I suspect the current political environment in the US is unfavorable to such an approach and would be politically unpalatable, but it won't always be so.  California and New York, which together have about 20% of the US population, could mandate such a plan and that would force manufacturers to implement it nation wide.  BTW, I absolutely detest styrofoam packing material, that should be first on the list of things to go...

[Paul Roark]

I refill my carts many times.  At least for wide format Epson printers, there are very good refillable cartridges.  I'm not sure what the situation is for desktop thermal printers, but encouraging re-use of refillable cartridges would seem one way to lessen the pollution problem.   

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

[deanwork]

Yea you got that right. For the most part the only reason any of these three companies are providing these recycling programs is because they are global companies that do big business in Europe, Japan and Australia where it is mandatory .  And yes, California, New York, Oregon, and Washington are separate countries as well with their own environmental laws.

There are ways to encourage plastics recycling, namely by taxing their use and giving a credit for recycling. The level of taxation should high enough to encourage participation.  Part of the tax revenue could be used for environmental remediation.  I suspect the current political environment in the US is unfavorable to such an approach and would be politically unpalatable, but it won't always be so.  California and New York, which together have about 20% of the US population, could mandate such a plan and that would force manufacturers to implement it nation wide.  BTW, I absolutely detest styrofoam packing material, that should be first on the list of things to go...

[BobShaw]

In Australia, all the major manufacturers are associated with a national cartridge recycling program:

Yes and this has been going on for at least 10 years.
And not just printer cartridges but almost everything like plastic bottles can be recycled and usually collected by the local council.
Perhaps there are countries that don't have recycling?
Maybe there are countries that still use paper money, 1c coins and 7 digit phone numbers too? (:-)

[deanwork]

Well there are all kinds of "recycling" . I have curbside recycling that I pay extra for in Atlanta that collects my inkjet rag papers, cans,  glass, and plastics. Now where this ends up is a totally differient matter. A lot of plastic bottles and glass bottles do get reused as new products and probably a lot of it doesn't depending on the type of plastic.  But I would say the majority of this kind of waste still ends up in the landfills because there is no requirement that we recycle at all. It's all left up to local governments. Still kind of a third world attitude. 

In the case of these HP inkcarts when sent back to Hp in their bags, they go directly to a specific warehouse that they say is set up to reformulate into new hp inkcarts. That's what they say. I've saved all my Canon inkcarts and it is time to box them up and send back to Canon. My Epson has refillable carts for bw process.

But as far as any local or federal government regulation that has passed to keep these kinds of industrial products out of the landfill ...it doesn't exist in most US states.

Yes and this has been going on for at least 10 years.
And not just printer cartridges but almost everything like plastic bottles can be recycled and usually collected by the local council.
Perhaps there are countries that don't have recycling?
Maybe there are countries that still use paper money, 1c coins and 7 digit phone numbers too? (:-)

[BobShaw]

When Richard Pratt took Visy to New York in the early 1990's the shopkeepers had to pay to have cardboard boxes removed. It was basically controlled by organised crime. He offered to pay the shopkeepers for the cardboard instead. Recycling made him one of the richest people in the world.
It is just a mindset really.
https://www.visy.com.au/about/our-history/