Breathing Color Lyve Canvas with Timeless Gloss on Canon Pro-1000

[henrikolsen]

Trying to coat Lyve with Timeless Gloss, but not having much luck. Even with 15+ hours to dry/outgas, I see color smearing around dark patches, when trying to coat an A4 test target.

I used the generic 'canvas' media type, one that lists in Media Configuration Tool as a MBK,PBK type with standard ink usage.

If making a custom media type for it, what base media would you choose?

Have asked BC support if they have some suggestions to this. Do you?

[Ryan Mack]

There should be a Canvas Matte media type you can download to the printer and then pull back into the driver. I would give that a try. That’s what I’ve been using on another matte canvas on a Pro-4000 and I’ve had No smearing when rolling on Timeless Matte after 24 hours.

[I.T. Supplies]

What profile are you using upfront when you did the print?  If it's satin canvas on a matte product, the wrong black would be used which can cause the smearing.

Otherwise, if you used a matte black (artistic matte canvas) on the matte canvas, this should be good upfront.  The other thing you can do is make sure your media setting on printer and computer match properly with the correct ICC profile so the ink amount is applied and than let it sit for the appropriate timeframe.

However, if the settings are all correct and you let it sit accordingly before applying the protection and is still smears, there is a chance the product is defective (coating on canvas to accept the ink isn't properly applied).  This is just an idea if the other options are good.  Or, it could be the protection coating is defective as well.

Since BC moved their location from CA to TX, their production plant went through issues with some of the products which caused issues on customers end and had to fix the products.  This is just another option though.

Hope it helps.

[henrikolsen]

No icc used. Target for custom profiling is printed without color management. Normal build-in canvas media type used.

I don't have a Canvas Matte option for my Pro-1000. Perhaps it exists for the roll models. But I can try and use another media type being MBK only if anyone thinks the MBK,PBK mix might be an issue.

The possible bad coating could be a possibility. It does seem the ink doesn't really settle and is wiped partially off again when varnishing. Even for some colors not dark, like some olive green on the target.

[Ryan Mack]

The Canvas Matte option was added later for my printer. Be sure you ask the Media Config Tool to download any available updates, then push that media type to the printer, then go into your driver settings and pull the update back in.

[henrikolsen]

Triple checked. Canvas Matte isn't available on my Pro-1000. It might be on the roll models, or for Pro-1000 users in other areas than Europe perhaps - it sometimes vary. If it _is_ available to you on a Pro-1000 with MBK only, I would appreciate a media type export of that media from MCT.

The regular "Canvas" looks like attached (MBK,PBK).

[I.T. Supplies]

Can you take a screen shot of what profile you have available via the software options?  The Artistic Matte Canvas should be available upfront since they have had this one for a while and satin should be just after it.  The MCT should also provide this option unless the matte/satin canvas wasn't selected at first or it was removed by accident.  We have the Pro-1000 and Pro-4000 in our office and they basically show the same settings upfront.

You just want to make sure you select a comparable media type on both printer and computer and select the best profile (unless you created one) that will work on the media.  Media type and profile don't have to match since the profile just does it's best to provide the colors you see on screen where the media type will know the thickness of the media being fed an apply the appropriate ink.

MBK should use Matte and PBK should use Photo.  Otherwise, you can go through MCT to adjust this and switch the black used.

[henrikolsen]

I make my own icc profiles. So currently only looking to determine best media type setting for Lyve canvas for a Pro-1000.

Attaching screenshots of all available media types in MCT as seen for my Pro-1000. Unfortunately the window cannot scale, so I attach multiple shots, scrolling the list (only cut off the last Special 1-10).

No Matte Canvas media type available.

BC came back and said their own profile was made with the "Canvas" media type. Also they recommended a MBK media type, possibly a "Heavy Fine Art Paper", not mixing in PBK. The inconsistent thing is that both of these are indicated in MCT to be exactly a mix, set as 'MBK,PBK' and not MBK alone...

You can in MCT for the Pro-1000 only set black ink types through the base media choice, not adjust it afterwards. I'll try a pure MBK base media and see if the colors smear less.

[Ryan Mack]

Just to double check you did try clicking the acquire button? I’ll send screenshots of what the config looks like for me later if it helps.

[Justin B]

Very interesting. First time I've heard of this happening with Lyve on the Pro-1000.

We have this printer in our lab, so we'll run a test and report back with our findings.

[henrikolsen]

Just to double check you did try clicking the acquire button? I’ll send screenshots of what the config looks like for me later if it helps.

Yep, that is an up-to-date list shown through the acquire button. Interesting if you something else on your setup.

I think I might try a custom media based on Highest Density Fine Art Paper (pure MBK according to MCT, if that's worth believing as good amounts of PBK are reported by Accounting Manager even when using this media type with other papers . Might be better.

Justin (from BC) has picked up the issue also, thanks.

[henrikolsen]

Been doing more tests on Lyve now. Now trying to use a pure MBK base media type for a custom media in MCT - Highest Density Art is the only one available (besides Special 6-10). I chose 'Standard' ink usage (as the build in 'Canvas' also has).

After 24 hours of drying / outgassing, I have measured the target print. Being curious of the apparent very delicate/sensitive surface which easily gets somewhat shiny if touched (especially on darker tones), I tried rubbing my finger across some patches, and was surprised to see ink spreading out to neighbour fields - even without damp finger or varnish. Trying the same on other mat media, I don't notice such tendency of smearing (only that mat surfaces generally easily get marks/shininess if touched, to varying degree). Attaching images of this dry-test - no varnish applied this time.

Haven't tried to varnish this print yet, and might skip it now, as smearing already when dry doesn't leave much hope of bettering compared to last attempts.

As I'm getting used to with the Pro-1000, it's difficult to understand the use of MBK and PBK, as plenty of PBK is still being reported in use by accounting manager for what is reported as pure MBK media types. If that reported PBK is being put on paper despite a pure MBK media choice, or it's dumped outside paper for various reasons but still reported in accounting, I don't know.

But back to Lyve. I'm starting to run out of ideas on how to make the media work, and would love some input on making it work. I had of course hoped not to spend a lot of media, ink, thought and time on this, but I'm still interesting and believe it can work out in the end. Can I have been unlucky and gotten a bad batch with poor coating? Batch number is T6B26-C.

[henrikolsen]

Very interesting. First time I've heard of this happening with Lyve on the Pro-1000.

We have this printer in our lab, so we'll run a test and report back with our findings.

Any news on this Justin?

I saw in your news mail that you have joined the Canon Alliance Partner Program (CAPP) with the Lyve canvas among other products. In that case I would find it especially important and expected to get the reported issue investigated and hopefully solved. Have been writing with your support in January as well about it, at the same time as these original postings. But both threads died out.

BTW, the link in the mail and on blog listing throws a 404 currently (https://www.breathingcolor.com/blog/breathing-color-joins-canon-alliance-partner-program/).

Hope you'll find a reason and solution to the problem. Thanks.

[mearussi]

The one thing I don't like about BCs canvasses is their inability to absorb a lot of ink. I have to use Lyve with PK only because using it with MK causes the blacks to smear and never dry. BC obviously knows about this problem because they actually offers this PK option in their ICC profile. And even then I still have to dial in a -15 density to keep the other colors from blotching up.

[DougDolde]

If you can afford Lyve sure why not. But I've been using a much less expensive canvas with great results.

Hard to be 100 foot rolls too.

https://www.itsupplies.com/Simply-Elegant-Everyday-Matte-Inkjet-Canvas

[mearussi]

If you can afford Lyve sure why not. But I've been using a much less expensive canvas with great results.

Hard to be 100 foot rolls too.

https://www.itsupplies.com/Simply-Elegant-Everyday-Matte-Inkjet-Canvas

Which are all either out of stock or discontinued.

[DougDolde]

Hmm maybe I better buy a 24" roll now.

[mearussi]

Hmm maybe I better buy a 24" roll now.

Good idea, if you can find any left. I called them up yesterday and they said they were still looking for a new supplier that met their price and quality requirements.

[henrikolsen]

The one thing I don't like about BCs canvasses is their inability to absorb a lot of ink. I have to use Lyve with PK only because using it with MK causes the blacks to smear and never dry. BC obviously knows about this problem because they actually offers this PK option in their ICC profile. And even then I still have to dial in a -15 density to keep the other colors from blotching up.

What media type (OEM or base media type for custom media) do you use then for forcing only PK ink? Especially interested if on a Canon Pro-x000 series.

[mearussi]

What media type (OEM or base media type for custom media) do you use then for forcing only PK ink? Especially interested if on a Canon Pro-x000 series.

I have an Epson 7800 set up for PK so I don't have to force anything.