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Author Topic: What is Sigma up to?  (Read 34480 times)

hogloff

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Re: What is Sigma up to?
« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2018, 06:44:31 PM »

We will see. Both Nikon and Canon have a huge amount of confidence in their lens design and manufacturing abilities, they may think they can win even with an open mount.

Cheers,
Bernard

Why would they open now when they were closed before?
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: What is Sigma up to?
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2018, 11:24:13 PM »

Why would they open now when they were closed before?

Because the world is changing around them?

Cheers,
Bernard

hogloff

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Re: What is Sigma up to?
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2018, 09:19:54 AM »

Because the world is changing around them?

Cheers,
Bernard

Really...how so? And why for mirrorless and not DSLR? I don't see it.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: What is Sigma up to?
« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2018, 12:38:59 PM »

Really...how so? And why for mirrorless and not DSLR? I don't see it.

- openess is now an important decision criteria in many areas, including photographic systems
- Sony E mount is open and happens to be the reference in mirrorless
- for the first time in many years Canikon will have a much smaller lens lineup compared to competition (Sony E mount lenses) and their #1 issue is going to be the credibility of the mount in terms of available lenses. It will be in their own interest to have third party lenses available quickly.

Cheers,
Bernard

Chris Livsey

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Re: What is Sigma up to?
« Reply #44 on: January 21, 2018, 02:56:19 PM »

It will be in their own interest to have third party lenses available quickly.

Cheers,
Bernard

Or provide effective and inexpensive adapters for their own legacy lenses, they both have a reasonable number out there  ;) , that would also have the benefit of attracting more of their current user base. Hasselblad have done this with the HC series on the X1-D although with limitations due to camera firmware and legacy lens chips which are not sufficient for the task.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: What is Sigma up to?
« Reply #45 on: January 21, 2018, 03:01:00 PM »

Yes, of course, adapters are a given but...

Cheers,
Bernard

hogloff

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Re: What is Sigma up to?
« Reply #46 on: January 21, 2018, 06:06:24 PM »

- openess is now an important decision criteria in many areas, including photographic systems
- Sony E mount is open and happens to be the reference in mirrorless
- for the first time in many years Canikon will have a much smaller lens lineup compared to competition (Sony E mount lenses) and their #1 issue is going to be the credibility of the mount in terms of available lenses. It will be in their own interest to have third party lenses available quickly.

Cheers,
Bernard

I don't buy it. Canikon will come out with an adapter for their existing lenses and slowly fill the new mount as need be. I don't see them selling out their cash cow anytime soon. If they did not do it for the DSLR lenses...I don't believe they'll do it for their mirrorless lenses...they make too much moola off their lenses.
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hogloff

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Re: What is Sigma up to?
« Reply #47 on: January 21, 2018, 06:08:32 PM »

It will be in their own interest to have third party lenses available quickly.

Cheers,
Bernard

Really? Why is that? Why can't they just promote their existing lenses adapted to their mirrorless camera? What exactly does Canikon have to gain by getting the market flooded with cheaper third party lenses that are just as good as their own?
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hogloff

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Re: What is Sigma up to?
« Reply #48 on: January 21, 2018, 06:08:52 PM »

Yes, of course, adapters are a given but...

Cheers,
Bernard

But what?
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davidgp

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Re: What is Sigma up to?
« Reply #49 on: January 22, 2018, 11:12:48 AM »

So, we are just one month away... but it looks like there will be several FE lenses from Sigma at CP+ (probably they are going to be released slowly during the year).

Also Sigma is not forgetting DSLR, two 70-200 One f2.8 art other one contemporary F4 both for Canon and Nikon.

But letís see... it is just rumors at the moment.

Source: https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-source-confirms-sigma-will-announce-multiple-fe-lenses-cp-show/


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BJL

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Re: What is Sigma up to?
« Reply #50 on: January 22, 2018, 09:41:45 PM »

Well, you were 100% sure that Nikon would never start mirrorless with a FF body, were you not?
And do we know otherwise yet? All I have read is a rumor that Nikon's next mirrorless mount is wide enough to work with 35mm format as well as "APS-C" format, and if that is true, then Nikon is probably planning to have 35mm format mirrorless cameras at some stageóbut no sign yet that it will start in that format. Note that both Sony and Canon entered the mirrorless market with "APS-C" format cameras using a lens mount that can also handle 35mm format.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: What is Sigma up to?
« Reply #51 on: January 22, 2018, 10:57:47 PM »

Weíll know in one month.

My bet is firmly on FF. The time to release lukewarm products is long gone IMHO. Nikon sees itself as the top dog in photography, their strategy in mirrorless can only aim for the top.

But weíll know in one month.

If Nikon goes DX, I will have no problem to acknowledge I was wrong... and will start to investigate Sony and Canon very seriously. ;)

My view is that Nikon shouldít release a DX mirrorless line up at all. They can release a low end FX body at a price point very close to that of a Sony a6500 and anything below that will soon be competing with smartphones anyway.

Cheers,
Bernard

davidgp

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Re: What is Sigma up to?
« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2018, 12:09:40 PM »

Hi,

For me full-frame makes more sense than DX, margins are bigger, you earn more money selling less units. Main reason Sony is focusing on it and nearly forgetting releasing lens for E system instead of FE. The same reason Fuji went to Medium-Format mirrorless, you sell less units, but make much more money per unit.

Regards,

David

hogloff

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Re: What is Sigma up to?
« Reply #53 on: January 23, 2018, 02:03:30 PM »

Hi,

For me full-frame makes more sense than DX, margins are bigger, you earn more money selling less units. Main reason Sony is focusing on it and nearly forgetting releasing lens for E system instead of FE. The same reason Fuji went to Medium-Format mirrorless, you sell less units, but make much more money per unit.

Regards,

David

It would be interesting where the GFX comes in as far as revenue generation for Fuji. It's definitely a niche camera that is out of the price range for the vast majority of people.
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BJL

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Re: What is Sigma up to?
« Reply #54 on: January 23, 2018, 10:58:24 PM »

Hi,

For me full-frame makes more sense than DX, margins are bigger, you earn more money selling less units. Main reason Sony is focusing on it and nearly forgetting releasing lens for E system instead of FE. The same reason Fuji went to Medium-Format mirrorless, you sell less units, but make much more money per unit.

Regards,

David
Are you arguing that Nikon will offer _only_ 36x24 format, with no mass market 26x16 option? I would be very surprised if it does not offer both eventually, but maybe starting with the higher volume 24x26 format mostnofbwhose customers can be satisfied with a smaller initial range of lenses. Note that every maker of 36x24 gear also has a smaller format, even Leica. That also goes for the Fujifilm example: it has a 26x16 system, and launched it first, as did Sony and as has Canon.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: What is Sigma up to?
« Reply #55 on: January 24, 2018, 01:25:49 AM »

Are you arguing that Nikon will offer _only_ 36x24 format, with no mass market 26x16 option? I would be very surprised if it does not offer both eventually, but maybe starting with the higher volume 24x26 format mostnofbwhose customers can be satisfied with a smaller initial range of lenses. Note that every maker of 36x24 gear also has a smaller format, even Leica. That also goes for the Fujifilm example: it has a 26x16 system, and launched it first, as did Sony and as has Canon.

Nikon has to focus on the right priorities. The right priority is the development of the best lenses line up for their new mirrorless offering.

Having to release 2 sets of lenses isn't compatible IMHO.

Besides, they have been doing all they could for years to migrate their APS-C users to full frame bodies. This is clearly proven by their DX lens release track record that is nothing short of abysmal... by design.

I am not sure why we think that they should dig themselves once more in a similar hole with 2 lenses line ups in the mirrorless world.

We now know for a fact that a large majority of customers with an investment in a given lens line never migrate upwards.

We also know from Nikon's own corporate communication that they want to focus on higher end higher profit margin products...

Cheers,
Bernard

davidgp

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What is Sigma up to?
« Reply #56 on: January 24, 2018, 02:25:49 AM »

Are you arguing that Nikon will offer _only_ 36x24 format, with no mass market 26x16 option? I would be very surprised if it does not offer both eventually, but maybe starting with the higher volume 24x26 format mostnofbwhose customers can be satisfied with a smaller initial range of lenses. Note that every maker of 36x24 gear also has a smaller format, even Leica. That also goes for the Fujifilm example: it has a 26x16 system, and launched it first, as did Sony and as has Canon.

For Sony, Fuji and Canon was different times... first E-mount camera was released on 2011, beginning of 2012 Fuji release the X mount system, and un June Canon the first EOS-M system.

2012 was the last year of growth of camera sales, coming from 2006 were the market was growing year after year in double digits in camera sales... and the bigger sales were in low-end, middle level bodies... thatís why Canon and Sony focused at the beginning in low level bodies and lenses... they were expecting to sell lots of units and make the money.

But look how the market it is now a days, all manufacturers are focusing in the high-end bodies, since they are selling less cameras, those are the ones that give the benefits. Sigma release the ART series of lenses and focuses on quality, Olympus itís OMD series forgetting a bit the PEN series, Panasonic puts its money on the GH video series of cameras, Sony moves to full frame mirrorless, Fuji to GFX... Nikon remembers that they had a high end series of DX cameras and releases the d500 for wildlife photographers and so on...

The camera market is focusing in the high end part... eventually, they maybe release a DX mirrorless system... but I donít see it right now.

Anyway... Iím always wrong on my predictions... that it is way I work as computer systems engineer and not as market analyst.


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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: What is Sigma up to?
« Reply #57 on: January 24, 2018, 11:53:26 AM »

Canon already has a "small" sensor competent MILC system, with the M series. So they are in a better starting point compared to Nikon, because they can focus on FF MILC. The question for Canon (and Nikon) is whether they can convince the huge number of "low level DSLR" users (aka Rebel like) to spend their money on a low level MILC system.

Judging by how many Rebel - like both companies sell, it will be a challenge... so there is a challenge at the low end, and a challenge at the high end: convincing enthusiasts and pros that their new FF MILC are on par with existing DSLR.

BernardLanguillier

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Re: What is Sigma up to?
« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2018, 12:51:38 PM »

and a challenge at the high end: convincing enthusiasts and pros that their new FF MILC are on par with existing DSLR.

IMHO, the easiest way to do that is to propose lenses unheard of in the DSLR world.

Cheers,
Bernard

hogloff

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Re: What is Sigma up to?
« Reply #59 on: January 24, 2018, 06:10:51 PM »

IMHO, the easiest way to do that is to propose lenses unheard of in the DSLR world.

Cheers,
Bernard

Then what message are you sending to the tried and true DSLR base...soiuanora?
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