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Author Topic: Moving from DSLR to Digital back........straight forward or not??  (Read 1271 times)

Neil Williams

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So I have been shooting DSLR and Rangfinder since 2012 (mainly DSLR) and have just bought my first digital back. Is it basically the same shooting with a digital back as it is with any other camera or are there certain tricks that you need to take care of differently compared to a DSLR. One that I can think of is that due to the shutter being in the lens then there is maybe less vibration compared to a normal shutter........but I am just guessing.
What about dealing with the bigger file sizes, I currently have a 2012 Mac Pro that really needs upgrading as its kind of slow now especially if I am working on  a stitch panorama with files from the Leica S.
Any help or tips will be much appreciated

Neil

calindustries

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Re: Moving from DSLR to Digital back........straight forward or not??
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2018, 09:48:16 AM »

It's not the shutter shake you have to deal with, it's the mirror. And the mirror is bigger (unless you are using a GFX or X1D) so using mirror up option when you can becomes more important.


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Neil Williams

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Re: Moving from DSLR to Digital back........straight forward or not??
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2018, 09:54:08 AM »

Hay thanks for that Craig...........I'm assuming there will be an option for that in camera. I will read the manual :)

What about minimum shutter speed for different lenses, On my Leica S007 when hand holding I try to stay above 1/500 for my 120mm and 1/250 when using 70mm......would that be a good ball park for the H6D

Neil

SrMi

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Re: Moving from DSLR to Digital back........straight forward or not??
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2018, 10:21:20 AM »

For handheld use there is a useful mirror delay setting on Hasselblad. 50ms or 100ms works for me. It reduces shake of mirror movement considerably. The camera is heavy and therefore stabilizes itself a bit :). For HC50 I am using 1/100 .
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Moving from DSLR to Digital back........straight forward or not??
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2018, 10:32:25 AM »

One of the challenges of a search like this is you don't know what you don't know. So I'd suggest open ended broad questions and providing us more background/context such as
- What kind of subjects you shoot
- What kind of approach/methodology/technique you'd describe yourself as having (or wanting to have)
- What you're looking to improve over your current kit
- What about the practice, theory, and business of photography are most important to you

The advantages and disadvantages of medium format are profoundly different depending on the above. For example if you shot football with long lenses then moving from a dSLR to a Digital Back would be a catastrophic decrease in hit rate, ease of use, and flexibility. On the other end of the spectrum if you shoot still life / product and do focus stacking it could be a several-fold increase in productivity, ease of use, image quality, and flexibility (XF Focus Stacking Webinar; XF focus stacking article).

But as to your specific questions:
- Shake/vibration: the least you can get right now is using one of the few systems that have a sensor-based electronic shutter option (ES). But this doesn't work for every kind of subject/scene or style of shooting (it's mostly a tripod based thing). Read more about the ES on the Phase One IQ3 100mp. When shooting hand held the timing and physical construction of the shutter mechanism and ergonomics of the body are a big factor in minimum hand-holdable speed, as is the question of what is "acceptable" to an individual photographer when it comes to slightly-less-than-100%-sharp images; for example when I'm shooting a wedding with an IQ3 100mp and I'm at 1/125th with an 80mm lens I know that I won't be getting perfectly sharp images at 100% pixel view, but I also know that I'll be able to make a sharp 11x14 print.
- Capture One handles large raw files very well. For the bulk of the workflow (e.g. editing, adjusting, zooming to 100%) the speed is the very similar when using 100mp raws as 16mp raws (my reference points since I use both Phase One and a Fuji X Pro 1). Once you leave raw and need to work in rasterized layered TIFFs a 100mp image will become considerably heavier to lift in Photoshop.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 10:50:47 AM by Doug Peterson »
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Neil Williams

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Re: Moving from DSLR to Digital back........straight forward or not??
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2018, 11:26:03 AM »

Thanks for the feedback Doug......let me try and answer your questions

First of all I like to shoot Landscape, pretty girls and travel photography
I shoot 90% of my landscapes using a tripod
I shoot 90% of the pretty girls hand held
I shoot 95% of my travel photography hand held........like my recent trip to Japan all hand held Japan 2017
More of a 3D effect and I like to print large 60 x 44 sizes
All my photography is for fun.......to go and shoot a wedding for example would be a nightmare for me. I work in the oilfield and use photography as a way to relax when I am not at work.
I also enjoy shooting still life with my 8x10 Chamonix (flowers etc etc) I want to eventually do this with the digital back and try my hand at focus stacking........i've seen some of that stuff on the web and its really cool.
I'm due an upgrade to my current computer so maybe now is a good time to get that as well :)

Neil

Doug Peterson

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Re: Moving from DSLR to Digital back........straight forward or not??
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2018, 11:59:52 AM »

Ah! Sorry, of course I know all that. I didn't connect you with our previous discussions on getdpi because of the different screen name. Still, good for all that to be in the thread; you'll get better feedback.

Best wishes with your new system!

Hank Keeton

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Re: Moving from DSLR to Digital back........straight forward or not??
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2018, 03:54:26 PM »

What a hoot! "pretty girls" with a MFDB! What could be more revealing...or disclosing of intent...??

Unless you're talking X1D (or similar mirrorless..)...handheld will be an exercise in practice and patience.

With tripod (not for the the "ladies"...) "mirror-up" (and barn-doors open) is best....most cameras offer that option. Explore and experience...

For travel...well......light-n-easy is the name-of-the-game...you may find it tough to meet all your expectations with one camera, unless you choose carefully....

Whichever way you go...be sure to "go" energetically!

Cheers,

Hank



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douglevy

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Re: Moving from DSLR to Digital back........straight forward or not??
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2018, 10:04:34 AM »

Focus. Even with TrueFocus (I have an H5X), critical focus was the biggest change to me. Not being able to really trust shooting at F/4 and wider, especially handheld. And what looks like it's in focus, is juuuuust a bit soft when you look at images at 100%. It definitely made me slow down. When I went from a credo 40 to 60, the same issue popped up again.

-Doug

Neil Williams

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Re: Moving from DSLR to Digital back........straight forward or not??
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2018, 10:08:22 AM »

Focus. Even with TrueFocus (I have an H5X), critical focus was the biggest change to me. Not being able to really trust shooting at F/4 and wider, especially handheld. And what looks like it's in focus, is juuuuust a bit soft when you look at images at 100%. It definitely made me slow down. When I went from a credo 40 to 60, the same issue popped up again.

-Doug
Yes I had similar challenges when I went from a rangefinder to a Leica S006...........nailing focus was and to some extent still a challenge, but when you do, it makes you want to go out and shoot some more

Neil

ErikKaffehr

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Re: Moving from DSLR to Digital back........straight forward or not??
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2018, 10:57:31 AM »

Hi,

With modern CMOS based MFD there is the option to use magnified live view for focusing. I don't know how well it works on MFD as I am still living in the CCD age with MFD, but it works very well with all my Sony cameras.

Peaking is pretty worthless if used without magnification. That also applies to the focus mask in C1. If you want to have something in focus you need to check actual pixels.

Jim Kasson suggests using peaking and magnified LV and that may work.

The mirrorless MFD options use contrast detecting AF (CDAF). In general, CDAF is very accurate, as it uses the signals from the sensor to maximize contrast at the focus point. But, it can be slow and may be not so reliable. Modern DSLR/Mirrorless had PDAF on sensor and can combine it with CDAF measurement.

I would guess that the next generation of the Fuji GFX (and the X1D) hold a great promise, hopefully combining PDAF and CDAF on sensor with a healthy amount of pixels and lenses optimized for the image size.

I don't shoot portraits, but my experience is that with the Hasselblad 555/ELD using an extra 3X magnifier it would be possible to focus on the eye. With magnified live view I can decide which eyelash I want to put focus on. That is enabling technology.

So, honestly, would I be concerned about focusing mainly I would go with the Fuji GFX (or the X1D) and hope for 100 MP in a year or two. But, I am no longer in MFD, so this is just a comment from an interested bystander.

Just to say, critical focus is hard and that is partly because lenses are seldom geared for optimal focusing.

Peaking is very useful for tilting. It indicates at which parts of the image are in approximate focus at a given tilt. Once you got tilt right you refine focusing using magnified live view.

Best regards
Erik
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cgarnerhome

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Re: Moving from DSLR to Digital back........straight forward or not??
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2018, 11:59:34 AM »

It sounds like to me that one camera won't satisfy all your needs.  I have a medium format system (Phase One) for landscape and always use a tripod.  For me, if I want to print large stability is a primary concern so I'm always on a tripod.  For travel I use a Nikon D850 but still bring a tripod (albeit a smaller one) and I use it when possible.

BobShaw

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Re: Moving from DSLR to Digital back........straight forward or not??
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2018, 06:48:34 PM »

I am not really sure what problem you are trying to solve.
To me, for a given number of pixels the medium format will have less apparent shake because the pixels are bigger.

In practice I find my MF images from a 39MP H3DII are sharper than from my 50MP 5Ds. There may be various reasons of course for this but I would say don't worry about MF having more vibration. Hasselblad have a mirror up button which is easy to so I would always use it on a tripod and with leaf shutters and a solid tripod there is no reason for vibration.

I almost always shoot people handheld (unless I am in the photo).

The files sizes should be the same except the MF is probably 16 bit vs 14 bit in DSLR. (Someone will leap in and question this but there are photos in this forum showing data in all 16 bits, so there.)
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Neil Williams

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Re: Moving from DSLR to Digital back........straight forward or not??
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2018, 07:12:08 AM »

It sounds like to me that one camera won't satisfy all your needs.  I have a medium format system (Phase One) for landscape and always use a tripod.  For me, if I want to print large stability is a primary concern so I'm always on a tripod.  For travel I use a Nikon D850 but still bring a tripod (albeit a smaller one) and I use it when possible.
Cam
I have a Leica S007 that is pretty good as a walk about camera, and a TL2 if I want a small option........

Neil

ErikKaffehr

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Re: Moving from DSLR to Digital back........straight forward or not??
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2018, 07:23:40 AM »

Hi Neil,

Which back did you get?

Best regards
Erik


So I have been shooting DSLR and Rangfinder since 2012 (mainly DSLR) and have just bought my first digital back. Is it basically the same shooting with a digital back as it is with any other camera or are there certain tricks that you need to take care of differently compared to a DSLR. One that I can think of is that due to the shutter being in the lens then there is maybe less vibration compared to a normal shutter........but I am just guessing.
What about dealing with the bigger file sizes, I currently have a 2012 Mac Pro that really needs upgrading as its kind of slow now especially if I am working on  a stitch panorama with files from the Leica S.
Any help or tips will be much appreciated

Neil
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Neil Williams

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Re: Moving from DSLR to Digital back........straight forward or not??
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2018, 07:27:29 AM »

Hi Neil,

Which back did you get?

Best regards
Erik
Hi Eric
I got the 100c mate........I'm still sitting on an Oil Rig so haven't seen it yet but cant wait to get my hands one it

Neil

ErikKaffehr

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Re: Moving from DSLR to Digital back........straight forward or not??
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2018, 09:19:56 AM »

Hi Neil,

Thanks a lot. Easier to consider the question if the sensor is known.

Best regards
Erik


Hi Eric
I got the 100c mate........I'm still sitting on an Oil Rig so haven't seen it yet but cant wait to get my hands one it

Neil
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cgarnerhome

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Re: Moving from DSLR to Digital back........straight forward or not??
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2018, 05:02:30 PM »

Cam
I have a Leica S007 that is pretty good as a walk about camera, and a TL2 if I want a small option........

Neil

I was really hoping the S would work for me but after a year of using it didn't give the resolution I wanted.  I feel like they haven't keep pace with the competition.

Neil Williams

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Re: Moving from DSLR to Digital back........straight forward or not??
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2018, 05:39:56 PM »

I was really hoping the S would work for me but after a year of using it didn't give the resolution I wanted.  I feel like they haven't keep pace with the competition.
Me too. I love my S but when I see files from the X1D and the H6D it makes the S look so so............It will still be a good walk about camera until I get the hang of shooting my H6D on the street :) :) :)

Neil
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