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Author Topic: Upgrade to Eizo?  (Read 2228 times)

Nightjar

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Upgrade to Eizo?
« on: January 01, 2018, 01:19:20 PM »

Hi there,

I have two projects in the pipeline which make me think about upgrading to a professional grade monitor. I own a uncalibrated Asus PA279Q which I'm ok happy with, but it hass problems with uniformity, backlight bleeding and the lack of hardware calibration or a proper hood.

To give more detail: I would manly get a reference monitor for two art projects (and hopefully I can make us of it for many more projects in the future): One is a fine art photography exhibition where I need prints and the other is for an experimental short film which need grading to be screened in a cinema. Now I looked at a bunch of the newer wide gamut monitors from Benq (e.g.= SW320 and the 4k Asus - but Eizo really seems to one step above those even though spec wise they're pretty much the same. I also looked on the NEC side which is a bit cheaper, but Eizo seems to be more fit on the video side. Plus I read some times that color navigator is easier to handle (and Eizo has included Calibrators and Hood).

So the ideal solution would be the 4K Eizo model (CG318), but I simply cannot afford this monitor or justify the price at the level I am right now.

The Benq SW320 seems to be really nice, but people have struggles with the hardware calibration app and you have to be quite lucky to get a model which doesn't have mediocre uniformity.

I guess it pretty much comes down to those monitors:

Eizo CG2730:
+Good contrast ratio of 1500:1
+DCI Color Space 98%
+True Black Panel
+Just in my price range

- It has an integrated calibrator but it doesn't seem to measure grayscale; is this a big deal?
- Not 3D LUTs: Also not sure, it's something I need
- Not many Presets in OSD; justr sRGB & RGB*
- Not many reviews online; does anybody have this monitor an can say something about it?

Eizo CG277
+True Black Panel
+2 x 3D Lut
+Many presets in OSD: DCI, REC709 etc.
+fully equipped built in calibrator

- Contras of 1000:1 --> not sure it's relevant for printing
- DCI Color Space of 93% --> at lift gamma gain, alot of people recommend grading in rec709 anyways; so maybe not really relevant(?)
-A bit outside my price range
-(release in 2014; something new coming soon for the same price?)

Eizo CG248

+pretty much the same as the CG277
+4K, opinion devide here: some say it's a huge step up, why others claim 4k on a 24'' is not necessary

-price
-24''; I would surely prefer a 27''
-Fans; some claim it's rather loud, while other don't bother

Eizo CG247X

+has all the features of the 277 and more for a reasonable price

-FullHD is a little below what I like to work in and in my opinion outdated
-24''

I would really like to hear from people who have used the above listed monitors, maybe even used several of them.

Thanks for the help and tipps.

Cheers

*How do I integrate other profiles like the missing DCI P3; is an ICC profile save in Colornavigator?
« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 04:47:25 PM by Nightjar »
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Dan Wells

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Re: Upgrade to Eizo?
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2018, 03:19:27 PM »

Eizo also has the CS2730, which is the same basic panel as the CG2730, but without the built-in calibrator (it still has the monitor-native calibration, but you plug an external calibrator into a USB port on the monitor). I have one, and it's a beautiful monitor that calibrates near-perfectly for around $1200 with 2.5K resolution and a 27" screen size. I'd go for a CS2730 over going down to 1920x1080 or a 24" side. If you don't already have one, a calibration puck adds about $150 (either an i1 Display  or a Spyder works just fine).
It's a HUGE cut above a 4 year old Dell "Adobe RGB" monitor from the high end of their UltraSharp series. I can't get the Dell neutral no matter what I try, while the Eizo was quite close out of the box, and is near-perfect after calibration.

Dan
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ChrisMax

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Re: Upgrade to Eizo?
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2018, 08:29:44 AM »

Ditto on the CS2730 which I also own!  Link to review on PRAD:

https://www.prad.de/testberichte/test-monitor-eizo-cs2730/
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Nightjar

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Re: Upgrade to Eizo?
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2018, 06:10:20 PM »

Thanks for your answer.

Though, the CS2730 has a different screen; it's not a true black panel as Eizo lables it and the contrast ratio is 1000:1 instead of 1500:1

Cheers
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PeterAit

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Re: Upgrade to Eizo?
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2018, 11:17:08 AM »

Why not consider the NEC monitors? I have been using 2 of them for years, 30 and 26 inches, and I love them. I get excellent results in terms of matching prints to the screen, and NEC provides its own calibration software that works very well (you must still buy a puck).
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Peter
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Nightjar

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Re: Upgrade to Eizo?
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2018, 02:10:13 PM »

I got the Eizo CG247x.

Regarding Nec vs Eizo: Eizo is much superior when it comes to motion picture
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digitaldog

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Re: Upgrade to Eizo?
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2018, 03:05:34 PM »

I got the Eizo CG247x.

Regarding Nec vs Eizo: Eizo is much superior when it comes to motion picture
In what way?
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Andrew Rodney
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digitaldog

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Re: Upgrade to Eizo?
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2018, 03:09:23 PM »

Eizo CG277
+True Black Panel
+2 x 3D Lut
+Many presets in OSD: DCI, REC709 etc.
+fully equipped built in calibrator

- Contras of 1000:1 --> not sure it's relevant for printing
It's not. The highest print contrast ratio you'll ever find is maybe 350:1. I'd go larger (27") and forget 4K; stuff's too small for me (I also have a MacBook Pro retina).

Quote

- DCI Color Space of 93% --> at lift gamma gain, alot of people recommend grading in rec709 anyways; so maybe not really relevant(?)
Depends on your goal for the final calibration(s). You can have multiple.
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Andrew Rodney
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ColourPhil

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Re: Upgrade to Eizo?
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2018, 03:28:43 PM »

Hi, I've got the CG2730 and am very pleased with it.
Not sure why you're worried about the lack of preset calibrations as you can very easily make your own based on the supplied ones.
Can't comment on video usage as I don't do any.
Cheers,
Phil.

Czornyj

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Re: Upgrade to Eizo?
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2018, 04:20:04 PM »

New NEC PA271Q has all features of EIZO CG2730 and CG277, and will be cheaper.

smahn

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Re: Upgrade to Eizo?
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2018, 11:56:29 PM »

New NEC PA271Q has all features of EIZO CG2730 and CG277, and will be cheaper.

I'm not seeing much info on this new NEC in English, any info you can share? How is it different than the current PA271W?

Thanks
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Czornyj

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Re: Upgrade to Eizo?
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2018, 06:01:31 AM »

I'm not seeing much info on this new NEC in English, any info you can share? How is it different than the current PA271W?

Thanks

It has new Panasonic IPS panel, that has better uniformity, slightly larger gamut, and much better black apparance thanks to decent OCF (like CG2730). Like all PA-series it's also factory calibrated with very high precision, has internal, constantly working autocorrection sensor, and programmable 3D LUT (like CG277). There's also optional new hood that's much more convenient and much more affordable.

Here's google translation of my initial impressions:
https://translate.google.pl/translate?sl=pl&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=pl&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fnotes%2Fmarcin-czornyj-kałuża%2Fnec-pa271q-nowy-monitor-do-zastosowań-o-krytycznym-znaczeniu-barwy-wstępne-wraże%2F1855448877858466%2F&edit-text=&act=url
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 06:09:48 AM by Czornyj »
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smahn

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Re: Upgrade to Eizo?
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2018, 12:38:23 PM »

Thank you.

That link isn't working for me, not sure why. Screen grab below.

I was hoping for the improved blacks, like the CG2730, however the Eizo is listed as having a contrast ratio of 1500:1, whereas the NEC is listed at the more common 1000:1.

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smthopr

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Re: Upgrade to Eizo?
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2018, 01:03:37 PM »

In what way?

I think it has to do with frame rates that the display will accept Andrew.  At least this was true a few years ago when I bought an Eizo for motion picture work.
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Bruce Alan Greene
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smthopr

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Re: Upgrade to Eizo?
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2018, 01:09:50 PM »

Thanks for your answer.

Though, the CS2730 has a different screen; it's not a true black panel as Eizo lables it and the contrast ratio is 1000:1 instead of 1500:1

Cheers

For motion picture work you will prefer a display with 1500:1 contrast over the older panels.  I have one of the older displays (CX271) with 1000:1 contrast and I can tell you that I would prefer the newer display with the deeper black very much.

Be warned that proper calibration for motion picture work can get complicated.  At the very minimum, you should also get an iOne Display Pro probe even for Eizo displays with a built in calibrator.

Personally, If I were to buy now, I would get the 24in Eizo CG247x that allows uploading 3d LUTs for color grading.
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Bruce Alan Greene
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Czornyj

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Re: Upgrade to Eizo?
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2018, 04:57:31 PM »

Thank you.

That link isn't working for me, not sure why. Screen grab below.

I was hoping for the improved blacks, like the CG2730, however the Eizo is listed as having a contrast ratio of 1500:1, whereas the NEC is listed at the more common 1000:1.

It has1500:1 and slightly higher luminance (400cd/m^2), decent OCF, and 3DLUT - all EIZO CG2730+CG277 features, plus some of common NEC advantages (SpectraView Engine + auto correction sensors + MultiProfiler +perfect factory calibration + lower price)

Nightjar

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Re: Upgrade to Eizo?
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2018, 05:15:04 PM »

Eizo offer smooth 24p which for me would be alone worth buying an eizo. Necs are not optimized for motion picture.
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smahn

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Re: Upgrade to Eizo?
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2018, 06:07:29 PM »

It has1500:1 and slightly higher luminance (400cd/m^2), decent OCF, and 3DLUT - all EIZO CG2730+CG277 features, plus some of common NEC advantages (SpectraView Engine + auto correction sensors + MultiProfiler +perfect factory calibration + lower price)

I'm hoping you're right about the contrast ratio. I'm going off scant information, such as this:

https://www.mediafrost.de/NEC-MultiSync-PA271Q-60004305-English.html

DISPLAY
    Panel Technology    AH-IPS GB-R LED Backlight
    Screen Size [inch/cm]    27 / 68.5
    Screen Aspect Ratio    16:9
    Brightness (typ.) [cd/m²]    340
    Contrast Ratio (typ.)    1000:1
    Viewing Angle [°]    178 horizontal / 178 vertical (typ. at contrast ratio 10:1)
    Response Time (typ.) [ms]    16 (8 white / black; 8 black / white); 6 (grey-to-grey)
    Colours [Billion]    1.074 (10-bit per colour)
    Colour Gamut Size / Coverage    108.6% / 99.3% Adobe RGB
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digitaldog

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Re: Upgrade to Eizo?
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2018, 08:15:46 PM »

I'm hoping you're right about the contrast ratio.
You're not going to find a more knowledgeable resource on NEC's here than Czornyj!
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Andrew Rodney
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Czornyj

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Re: Upgrade to Eizo?
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2018, 03:34:12 AM »

I'm hoping you're right about the contrast ratio. I'm going off scant information, such as this:

https://www.mediafrost.de/NEC-MultiSync-PA271Q-60004305-English.html

Just ignore mediafrost, they always put random specs ASAP just to be bookmarked.

I tested it thoroughly, and my findings are the results of measurements - here’s the copy-paste translation (sorry for autotranslation mistakes):

„During  the weekend I had a new, eagerly awaited successor to the excellent and proven PA272W. The monitor does not yet have support in the SpectraView II and MultiProfiler software, I'm not sure how much its firmwares were, so for now I share some preliminary insights.

PANEL

PA271Q has a 10-bit Panasonic IPS panel with W-LED PFS backlight and OCF, with native contrast 1500:1 and maximum luminance of 400cd / m². The use of red phosphor PFS allowed to obtain a slightly larger color gamut - virtually 100% of sRGB and aRGB, with a color space volume of 120% AdobeRGB (1.4 million ΔE³). OCF effectively eliminates the black leaking at higher viewing angle, with a slight violet tint visible under the extreme sharp angle (unnoticeable when working straight ahead), without affecting comfort and aesthetics.

The panel has very good native uniformity - peak luminance errors when the DUC is switched off, reach 10%, the chrominance error is unnoticeable (peak error below 2DE). The panel finish is typical for NEC, a supersatin diffuser that gives a clear, sharp image.

FUNCTIONALITY

Like its predecessors, PA271Q is equipped with a SpectraView Engine with an autocorrecting sensor that corrects the color and brightness of the backlight in real time. The x, y, Y co-ordinates measured by the sensor are displayed in the OSD menu of the monitor. The measurement deviation of the autorecutor senor in relation to the i1D3 measurement was 0.4ΔE, ie below the measurement error of this colorimeter. After connecting the i1D3 sensor to the USB port, it is possible to automatically recalibrate and validate the monitor. Linearity traditionally in the PA series is factory set to the point.
The monitor is equipped with a programmable 3DLUT, there are up to 10 programmable presets (in the menu you can choose the number of presets displayed in the range of 5-10). Factory presets have been supplemented with the latest implementations of HDR standards. The videographic functions have also been supplemented with the possibility of displaying a UHD / 4K signal scaled to 2.5K and displaying markers.

BUILD QUALITY

According to current trends, the monitor has a slimmer casing and tactile OSD menu support with convex selected fields. The monitor is, however, surprisingly heavy, solid, made of pleasantly matte finished high-quality material, mounted on a rotating foot with height adjustment, tilting and pivot function. The monitor has two USB3 inputs, three USB3 outputs, one USB service port for connecting the sensor and firmware update, USB-C, mDP, 2xDP, 2xHDMI, and LAN outputs. Contrary to the prevailing fashion, the monitor is solidly and meticulously packed in a right-sized box, no less than in the case of PA272W (most likely due to the large mass of the display).

SUMMARY

PA271Q with SpectraView II software and the i1D3 sensor is parametrically, qualitatively and functionally in every respect the equivalent of EIZO CG277+CG2730. In the context of the expected price of this model, and lowered price of new hood it will be a bargain ;)
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 05:25:27 AM by Czornyj »
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