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Author Topic: New article - printing with Imageprint  (Read 10717 times)

David Watson

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New article - printing with Imageprint
« on: December 24, 2017, 05:12:29 am »

I have been using Imageprint for a long time on a series of Epson printers (currently P800 and 7900) and I totally agree with Alan's conclusions.  It is easy to use, works reliably and produces very good results.

However the clincher for me was, as Alan says, the fact that it bypasses both the computer's OS and the printer driver.  Before I got IP I was driven mad by frequent changes and updates to my computer's operating system and printer updates.  Every change meant a possible reconfiguration and/or new profiles.  I use IP's profiles on mostly baryta papers and they are very good IMO.

The software is not cheap but it is a lot less than commercial RIP software and the service and support are first class.
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hokuahi

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Re: New article - printing with Imageprint
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2017, 09:16:26 am »

I agree, same here although recently I had two profiles made for both the Canson Bartya and Plantine by Freestyle Photo. They produce brighter whites, slightly more accurate color rendering, and better detail in the shadows than IP and if I were a rich man I'd probably profile all my papers.
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BradSmith

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Re: New article - printing with Imageprint
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2017, 01:47:12 pm »

I can see this being a worthy purchase in only two situations.  First, you need to gang multiple images together into a single print job VERY often or have a commercial print operation and print large, multiprint jobs on roll paper.  Secondly, you want to have the BEST, STATE OF THE ART equipment, no matter how much it costs. In other words for you, price is no object. 

I have a 17" Epson P800.  Today you can buy a new one in the US for $900.  I own and can print just fine from Photoshop.  I own and do print even more easily from Lightroom.  I'm usually happy with current OEM downloaded profiles and have purchased only a couple custom profiles.  To purchase Imageprint for this printer would cost about $920.  That is more expensive than the printer. It is more than what I paid for Photoshop and Lightroom combined!  And the most recent Imageprint upgrade, from ver. 9 to ver. 10 cost $313. Oh, and by the way, I can put together a capable Windows based computer for all this to run on for about the price of Imageprint alone.   It seems to me that this software is hugely overpriced in terms of value added and in comparison to the tools that surround it in a digital printing environment.

Regarding quality of output....if a skilled printer printed an image to their "best ability" from, say Lightroom, and then from Imageprint, and then showed ONE of them to you, would you reliably be able to tell which software printed the image?  I doubt it.   And I'm willing to bet that the public couldn't tell the difference if they saw them side by side.

Given that I have to factor value into all of my purchases, for me, this software is out of the question.
Brad
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: New article - printing with Imageprint
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2017, 10:23:13 pm »

I have been using Image Print for many years also and for me the availability of excellent profiles for a wide variety of paper stocks is a key value.

Cheers,
Bernard

JayWPage

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Re: New article - printing with Imageprint
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2017, 02:19:16 am »

One thing that seems to be rarely mentioned in favor of using Image Print is the ease of using any odd-sized scraps of paper for test strips. Of course, the scraps must meet Epson's minimum criteria for that particular printer, i.e. minimum 4" x 6", right angle cuts, straight leading edge for a 3880. But there is certainly an economy of effort to do this, along with an economy of paper. Also, being able to control the output sharpening in the printing routine is convenient since you don't have to go back to PS or where ever to change the amount of sharpening.

If you print similar types of images on the same papers with the same sharpening, toning, etc, then once you get the settings nailed down in PS or LR there is really no good reason to use Image Print. But if every image is different and you print on a large variety of papers and like to experiment with trying something different then Image Print can save you time and frustration, and it may help you produce a better print in the end.
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Jay W Page

adias

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Re: New article - printing with Imageprint
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2017, 12:59:19 pm »

One thing that seems to be rarely mentioned in favor of using Image Print is the ease of using any odd-sized scraps of paper for test strips. Of course, the scraps must meet Epson's minimum criteria for that particular printer, i.e. minimum 4" x 6", right angle cuts, straight leading edge for a 3880. But there is certainly an economy of effort to do this, along with an economy of paper. Also, being able to control the output sharpening in the printing routine is convenient since you don't have to go back to PS or where ever to change the amount of sharpening.

If you print similar types of images on the same papers with the same sharpening, toning, etc, then once you get the settings nailed down in PS or LR there is really no good reason to use Image Print. But if every image is different and you print on a large variety of papers and like to experiment with trying something different then Image Print can save you time and frustration, and it may help you produce a better print in the end.

Lr has tools to do that just as well...
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dchew

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Re: New article - printing with Imageprint
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2017, 01:06:42 pm »

I also use image print with my 7900; have been since 2014. There is no outstanding reason that I can't live without, but they add up. Pretty good profiles, versatile B&W toning with WYSWYG, extensive layout capabilities, a pipeline that doesn't break with OS upgrades, printing history/storage in Spoolface, and a workflow in which I make fewer mistakes.

Thank you for the article Alain. It reminded me what a small portion of the layout capabilities I use, and how much I could learn. An interesting thought about using Imageprint for global adjustments. I do not do any adjustments other than B&W toning in IP. I might try it...

About a year ago I did try output sizing and sharpening in IP. If I could get it to work I could output one full size tiff and use it for any size print. I gave up just because I am satisfied with LR's output sharpening, and couldn't easily figure out starting-point settings for a given size. I have not developed a sense for what sharpening should look like on-screen in order to get "good" sharpening in a print. LR is too easy and has dulled my sharpening skills...

Dave
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alainbriot

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Re: New article - printing with Imageprint
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2017, 02:08:47 pm »

Thank you for your comments on my ImagePrint essay. You are all welcome.  I don't write about software often but Image Print is such an important aspect of my workflow, and so often overlooked, that I felt compelled to do so.
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Alain Briot
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Riebs

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Re: New article - printing with Imageprint
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2017, 12:52:15 pm »

Alain,
Excellent article. I have used IP for several years and have been amazed at the consistent quality using IP.
I might also mention they are very responsive and helpful.
Regards,
Dick Riebel
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alainbriot

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Re: New article - printing with Imageprint
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2017, 05:30:12 pm »

Thank you Riebs.  I have found the same to be true for my work.  For me Image Print is part of creating the look I am after.  As I mention in the essay it is part of my personal style at this point and has been for a long time.  I am often asked how an image can appear to be lit from behind, which is obviously a look-based effect since there is no lighting that can achieve that. The answer is of course in the processing and optimizing of the image.  However, for me Image print is how processing skills are translated into a print on paper that demonstrate this lit-from-behind look.
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Alain Briot
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Miles Flint

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Re: New article - printing with Imageprint
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2017, 04:37:46 am »

Thank-you for this article.  I have been using Imageprint for many years and for me it just works time and time again. 

That said I realize that I only use a small percentage of what it is capable of doing and this article will help me explore things like B&W toning in more detail. 

Thanks again.
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digitaldog

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Re: New article - printing with Imageprint
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2017, 12:56:56 pm »

Pretty good profiles, versatile B&W toning with WYSWYG, extensive layout capabilities, a pipeline that doesn't break with OS upgrades, printing history/storage in Spoolface, and a workflow in which I make fewer mistakes.
How do blues do? In the past, their color engine sent blues (unacceptable to me), towards magenta:
http://www.digitaldog.net/files/Gamut_Test_File_Flat.tif

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dchew

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Re: New article - printing with Imageprint
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2017, 03:34:59 pm »

How do blues do? In the past, their color engine sent blues (unacceptable to me), towards magenta:
http://www.digitaldog.net/files/Gamut_Test_File_Flat.tif

Hi Andrew,
I think you mentioned that in a previous thread a year or so ago. I've used your Gamut Test File several times over the years; thank you very much for making it available. Using CIBP, I made a comparison between the Canson canned profile, my custom xrite i1P profile (both through LR) and IP's profile through IP.* I still have those and pulled them out.

Bill's blue balls (ha! I LOL every time I think of that) look far worse with the IP profile, but not in hue, just in luminance. They fade to black in an awful way. The balls from my custom profile look the best. The spectrum look different in each version. As for the images however (fish/fabric/boat), they all look extremely close, and I cannot distinguish much about the blues. I will say this about the IP profile: The fabric looks better to me, especially the purple hues. In the Canson and in my custom profiles, the verticle-hanging purple fringe looks like it is in the shade, which I know it isn't. That fringe in the IP print looks lighter, like it is illuminated by the sun as it should.

Anyway, I cannot detect any magenta shift in the blues so either I am missing it or they improved the engine in that regard.

Dave

* Used RelCol on all three
« Last Edit: December 30, 2017, 03:39:46 pm by dchew »
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alainbriot

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Re: New article - printing with Imageprint
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2017, 12:34:13 pm »

I don't have any issue with the way ImagePrint handles blues.  I like them personally.
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Alain Briot
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digitaldog

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Re: New article - printing with Imageprint
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2017, 12:39:20 pm »

I don't have any issue with the way ImagePrint handles blues.  I like them personally.
Try this: http://www.digitaldog.net/files/Gamut_Test_File_Flat.tif[/font]
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jymbo46

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Re: New article - printing with Imageprint
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2018, 04:26:58 pm »

I have used Imageprint for years. From an Epson 3800 through my current P800. I cannot match the quality or look of Imageprint with either Photoshop/Lightroom or the Epson software. I am sure others can, but I find that when I work on a print and get it where I want it, especially in Black and White, that IP will match it to the paper and I will have a good print within two tweaks. The ability to tweak from within the RIP is a great advantage. I move from paper to paper and between baryta and matte and am always pleased. I really no longer worry about the print when I work on a file.
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Jim Pascoe

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Re: New article - printing with Imageprint
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2018, 06:54:06 am »

My appetite was whetted - until I went to the Imageprint website and find that almost no Canon printers are supported.......

Jim
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alainbriot

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Re: New article - printing with Imageprint
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2018, 02:48:18 pm »

Try this: http://www.digitaldog.net/files/Gamut_Test_File_Flat.tif[/font]

I always add magenta to blue, especially in skies.  I don't like cyan and blue without magenta often veers towards cyan.  If indeed Image Print adds magenta to blue then it is one of the reasons why I like printing from it.  As I mentioned before IP is part of my style and my style is in large part based on the use of specific colors, for example little or no cyan and a passion for orange.
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Alain Briot
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digitaldog

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Re: New article - printing with Imageprint
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2018, 03:27:52 pm »

I always add magenta to blue, especially in skies. 
I was curious about the the blue balls but whatever.
I was using IP dating back to OS9 (and man, was that a drag to configure and use). Just wondering if some of the profile warts were worked out or not. Showing John the rendering fell on deaf ears.
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alainbriot

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Re: New article - printing with Imageprint
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2018, 03:28:04 am »

I was curious about the the blue balls but whatever.
I was using IP dating back to OS9 (and man, was that a drag to configure and use). Just wondering if some of the profile warts were worked out or not. Showing John the rendering fell on deaf ears.

Yes the old version of IP was challenging to use.  Things are better now :-)

I have not printed the test.  I like the colors I get and they match my screen so I am happy.  What matters to me is that IP prints the colors that I  use.  It may not print the colors I don' t use (although that remains to be seen) but then since I don't use these colors it's not a problem.  Worrying about this is a little like worrying that your art supply store does not carry all the oil paint colors of a given manufacturer (say Windsor & Newton) even though you never use the colors that store does not carry ...  Why worry?

I do understand that knowing if IP can render every color in the visual spectrum can be a subject of interest from an engineer's perspective.  But then I am not an engineer, I am an artist.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 03:33:35 am by alainbriot »
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