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Author Topic: Bought a Used Canon iPF 8400 and running into problems!  (Read 1516 times)

Aaron F.

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Bought a Used Canon iPF 8400 and running into problems!
« on: December 21, 2017, 09:05:56 PM »

Keep in mind that my technological know-how stops at computers; troubleshooting Wide Format Printers, especially Canon (came from an EPSON 9900), is a whole new realm for me.

We run an art studio that specializes in Fine Art Imaging & Printing and we recently bought a pre-owned Canon iPF 8400 to use for Art Proofing & Fine Art Printing.

Everything works fine except for the fact that every time we print anything that's not an 8" strip proof... the Red Ink stops working or gives out halfway. Keep in mind the Red ink is more than half full so I'm sure it's not an ink problem.

I've attached one of our Wolf & Sheep prints and if you look closely.. it turns very green in the fur on the left side because of the absence of red ink (is it clogged?)



I've also attached images of the nozzle checks before and after we printed the Wolf & Sheep print  ("before" print is perfect and in the "after" print the red did not show up at all.)

 

The right print head (where the Red ink is connected to) has been in the printer for 394 days and has an [Mdot] count of 427, 160 compared to the left print head which has about half.

I'm taking a guess (and hoping) from what I've read that it might the print head that is the problem but it might also be the circuit board (which is a bigger problem).

I just want to know what the lovely (and very knowledgeable) people of Luminous Landscape think? I do plan on calling Canon Customer Service tomorrow but I would like a second opinion other than "replace everything in your printer"

Sincerely,

Stressed Out  :'(

   



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​Aaron Fruman
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Winged Canvas | Markham's Art Hub
185 Bullock Dr. Unit 1, Markham, ON L3P 7R4
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mearussi

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Re: Bought a Used Canon iPF 8400 and running into problems!
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2017, 12:35:19 AM »

My understanding, from talking to a Canon repair tech, is that the heads should be replaced on a regular schedule (once every two years) even if they still work to keep them from burning out the main board. You bought yours used not knowing how well the previous owner maintained it, so it's certainly possible they over stressed the main board previously and that's it's failing now.
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Landscapes

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Re: Bought a Used Canon iPF 8400 and running into problems!
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2017, 02:35:52 AM »

My unprofessional opinion is that there might be some serious problems.  The reason I say this is because I had issues with a 6400.  I received a new head from Canon under warranty, and it didn't solve the problem.  I didn't have an entire color channel missing, but I did have many nozzles that just didn't look right.  A tech was sent out to replace the carriage, along with new print heads.  That didn't solve it.  Then on another visit, the main board was replaced, and that didn't solve it.  In the end, both the main board, and the carriage, and 2 new heads is what it took to fix it.  The problem is that bad parts downstream can ruin the parts up stream.  If the main board is ultimately bad, it will blow the carriage, which will blow the heads.  So even when you put in carriage, it will be blown.  Then even if you replace the main board, you've already got other bad parts down stream.

Now I'm not saying this is what is wrong with yours, but the fact that it just totally cuts out like this isn't usually a sign of blocked nozzles.  If a new head doesn't work, then be prepared for a headache.  These techs really can't diagnose exactly what is wrong, so they just throw parts at it.  If its under warranty, no problem.  But if you are paying for these parts, its a whole different ball game.  And like I say, if you replace the wrong parts, and its still not fixed, the root electrical problem might have just blown the new parts you just put in.  I honestly would give up if a new head doesn't solve the problem because everything else will be thousands of dollars with no guarantee that it will fix the problem.
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BobShaw

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Re: Bought a Used Canon iPF 8400 and running into problems!
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2017, 05:10:28 AM »

We run an art studio that specializes in Fine Art Imaging & Printing and we recently bought a pre-owned Canon iPF 8400 to use for Art Proofing & Fine Art Printing.
Why would anyone running a business that specialise in Fine art Imaging and printing buy a second hand printer?
If you don't think that your business plan is profitable enough to justify new plant then get out now.
A print machines economic life is very short. You don't have time to fix machines and sell at the same time.
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Garnick

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Re: Bought a Used Canon iPF 8400 and running into problems!
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2017, 07:39:28 AM »

Why would anyone running a business that specialise in Fine art Imaging and printing buy a second hand printer?
If you don't think that your business plan is profitable enough to justify new plant then get out now.
A print machines economic life is very short. You don't have time to fix machines and sell at the same time.

I tend to agree with Bob.  If your business is built around reliable machines(printer etc.), buying used equipment can be like cutting the deck too many times.  Sometimes you win, but when you lose it tends to negate the wins in a big way.  I have bought used equipment when my business was still built around custom darkroom printing and wet processing, but I always bought from companies I had dealt with previously and trusted.  When you buy from an individual you have no recourse if the product is defective.  It's an unfortunate situation, but it's also reality.  As far as the wide format printers I've had, I always bought new and extended the warranty to its limit.  I now run my business from my home and it seems to be winding down somewhat, so I'm not yet certain that I'll be extending the warranty on the almost new P7000.   

I have no knowledge of Canon printers and their workings.  If you were asking about the 9900 I'd be glad to pass along my opinion on any issue, but I'm sure you will receive a number of differing replies on this one.  From what I have read so far it does certainly seem that you have perhaps a combination of problems at this point.  The fact that the issue seems to be intermittent also contributes to the problem, since it will take more time to track down the culprit(s).  Having a Canon tech visit might be the only way to solve this, and I wish you luck.

Gary   

 
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I.T. Supplies

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Re: Bought a Used Canon iPF 8400 and running into problems!
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2017, 09:49:10 AM »

"These techs really can't diagnose exactly what is wrong, so they just throw parts at it."

How exactly do you know this?  Just because you went through this with some techs that came to your place doesn't mean they don't know exactly what is wrong.  For working at a printing supply company that sells the printers and supplies, we had an issue with our iPF8400 about 4 years ago, talked to one of their techs and they had me print out a bunch of information which provided "codes" towards everything.  They entered it all in their system and told me that it was probably a head issue and they sent a replacement and it fixed the problem.  Don't be so short an assuming things right away.

Not saying you're wrong completely, but not all techs will have the same level of experience as others; depending on how long they've been doing their job.

I would recommend contacting the manufacturer about the issue and see if there may be a way to diagnose the problem upfront.  They may have you print the details of the printer with the codes to verify and it may be what Landscapes was saying on what may need to be done or may be something like a good nozzle clean or print head replacement only.  None of us really know since we aren't actual Canon techs, but these are all suggestions and what to possibly expect.

800-423-2366 is Canon's customer service.  Just explain what is happening and they will do their best to help upfront.

Good luck!
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Aaron F.

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Re: Bought a Used Canon iPF 8400 and running into problems!
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2017, 04:32:23 PM »

Wow! Thanks a lot for all the replies.

Just got off the phone with Canon and they advised to do some A & B cleaning and if that doesn't work... change the printer head.. and I'm hoping that does it. If not well we will have to cross that bridge when we get there.

With regards to getting a brand new printer... you do make a very good point but it's just not an option at the moment as printing is just one small branch of the business (we mostly run art classes as well as run a gallery). Regardless, it is a different matter and maybe in the future once our printing services make enough profit to justify a band new printer then we will see :)

Overwhelmed by all the support... glad to hear I'm not the only one that has gone through this!

Thanks Luminous  ;D
 
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​Aaron Fruman
Frame Designer & Print Specialist

Winged Canvas | Markham's Art Hub
185 Bullock Dr. Unit 1, Markham, ON L3P 7R4
905-205-1231 | [email protected]

deanwork

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Re: Bought a Used Canon iPF 8400 and running into problems!
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2017, 05:15:26 PM »

Yes of course if you see no red and a couple of head cleanings don't totally clear it replace the head. You are getting close to having the max of nozzles run out any way.

Remember these thermal heads have to have the printer plugged in 24 hours a day. The printer monitors the nozzles and cleans when necessary.  I suspect whoever sold it to you had it unplugged and probably didn't use it for some time.

With any printer you should do a nozzle check before buying. If a nozzle doesn't clean reduce the price you pay them by $450.00 for the head. If it is an Epson you don't buy the printer.

Wait half an hour between cleanings. If you do multiple cleanings or the printer itself goes into multiple cleanings when you restart it will heat up the electronics and blow the head board. At that point you've lost the value of that printer.


Wow! Thanks a lot for all the replies.

Just got off the phone with Canon and they advised to do some A & B cleaning and if that doesn't work... change the printer head.. and I'm hoping that does it. If not well we will have to cross that bridge when we get there.

With regards to getting a brand new printer... you do make a very good point but it's just not an option at the moment as printing is just one small branch of the business (we mostly run art classes as well as run a gallery). Regardless, it is a different matter and maybe in the future once our printing services make enough profit to justify a band new printer then we will see :)

Overwhelmed by all the support... glad to hear I'm not the only one that has gone through this!

Thanks Luminous  ;D
 
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 05:19:57 PM by deanwork »
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Aaron F.

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Re: Bought a Used Canon iPF 8400 and running into problems!
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2017, 05:44:17 PM »

Yes of course if you see no red and a couple of head cleanings don't totally clear it replace the head. You are getting close to having the max of nozzles run out any way.

Remember these thermal heads have to have the printer plugged in 24 hours a day. The printer monitors the nozzles and cleans when necessary.  I suspect whoever sold it to you had it unplugged and probably didn't use it for some time.

With any printer you should do a nozzle check before buying. If a nozzle doesn't clean reduce the price you pay them by $450.00 for the head. If it is an Epson you don't buy the printer.

Wait half an hour between cleanings. If you do multiple cleanings or the printer itself goes into multiple cleanings when you restart it will heat up the electronics and blow the head board. At that point you've lost the value of that printer.



I see -- yes I've read (watched) that it does a purge every 60 hours (or I can print something before) so keeping it on is better.  Currently replenishing inks into the new print head at the moment.

Keeping my fingers crossed. Most of our inks are full or close to full so I hope it doesn't kill the inks like it did last time :/
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​Aaron Fruman
Frame Designer & Print Specialist

Winged Canvas | Markham's Art Hub
185 Bullock Dr. Unit 1, Markham, ON L3P 7R4
905-205-1231 | [email protected]

mearussi

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Re: Bought a Used Canon iPF 8400 and running into problems!
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2017, 05:59:58 PM »

BTW, having printer problems when buying used really depends on the model of printer. The IPF Canons and x900 Epsons are well known for being "delicate" but some of the older Epsons like the x600 and x800 series are really reliable. I've owned two 4800s and one 7800 all bought used. The key is to make sure you test them out before buying. The other key is to use them every single day, even if it's just a nozzle check. I also loaned out my Epson 9600 to a friend for his business and he's been cranking out dozens of large prints over the last few months with nary a problem. Those two series are just rough reliable workhorses I assume because of a much simpler head design. So if you're wanting a 44" printer that's reliable I would suggest you look for a good used 9800. I've seen them for sale on Craigslist in the $1,000 range.
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Landscapes

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Re: Bought a Used Canon iPF 8400 and running into problems!
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2017, 02:51:59 AM »

we had an issue with our iPF8400 about 4 years ago, talked to one of their techs and they had me print out a bunch of information which provided "codes" towards everything.  They entered it all in their system and told me that it was probably a head issue and they sent a replacement and it fixed the problem.
You're kidding me, right?  You say that they thought it was "probably" a head issue.  How conclusive is that?  And all you did to fix it was replace the head, which is the standard thing to do anyway.  I bet if your problem was with the actual board, they would have still told you to first replace the head.  And then perhaps the carriage, and you would have ended up in exactly my same situation.  Why don't you go ahead and ask Canon how they diagnose a board issue.  Ask them if they will cover a head out of warranty that is blown by a bad board.  The fact of the matter is, if their magical codes told them exactly what the problem was, Canon would have saved thousands of dollar in having to replace everything twice.

This is the way things are done these days.  You just throw new parts at the problem until the problem goes away.  Electrical errors are often very hard to fix.  Why do you think people even comment to say don't do multiple cleanings in a row since this might burn out the board?  If the printer was so smart to be able to throw out codes to say exactly what the problem is, it would be smart enough to not draw too much current and not fry the board to begin with.  All of this stuff is just trial and error until you get it fixed, at the expense of the customer once you are out of warranty.
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BobShaw

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Re: Bought a Used Canon iPF 8400 and running into problems!
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2017, 04:13:09 AM »

...  once you are out of warranty.
That is why you buy new printers.
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deanwork

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Re: Bought a Used Canon iPF 8400 and running into problems!
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2017, 02:09:37 PM »

You're kidding me, right?  You say that they thought it was "probably" a head issue.  How conclusive is that?  And all you did to fix it was replace the head, which is the standard thing to do anyway.  I bet if your problem was with the actual board, they would have still told you to first replace the head

They do

.  And then perhaps the carriage, and you would have ended up in exactly my same situation.  Why don't you go ahead and ask Canon how they diagnose a board issue.  Ask them if they will cover a head out of warranty that is blown by a bad board.  The fact of the matter is, if their magical codes told them exactly what the problem was, Canon would have saved thousands of dollar in having to replace everything twice.

This is the way things are done these days.  You just throw new parts at the problem until the problem goes away.  Electrical errors are often very hard to fix.  Why do you think people even comment to say don't do multiple cleanings in a row since this might burn out the board?  If the printer was so smart to be able to throw out codes to say exactly what the problem is, it would be smart enough to not draw too much current and not fry the board to begin with.  All of this stuff is just trial and error until you get it fixed, at the expense of the customer once you are out of warranty.

Yeppie

The canons are only delicate if you don't know what you are doing and since they don't tell you what to do when you buy one we all make the same stupid mistakes like leaving them plugged in during a lightening storm or trying to do multiple cleanings in a row and frying the head board. I've done both. Other than these two things my 8300 has been fantastic and my heads are lasting right now over 2.5 years with perfect nozzle checks.
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Pete Berry

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Re: Bought a Used Canon iPF 8400 and running into problems!
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2017, 04:18:46 PM »

Another possibility is a head ribbon cable defect - either in the wires themselves with the flexing-extending or the contacts. It might be well to replace the cable to the head if a new head doesn't cure the fault before delving deeper. This can be a problem with the larger iPF series.

Pete
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Landscapes

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Re: Bought a Used Canon iPF 8400 and running into problems!
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2017, 10:26:51 PM »

Another possibility is a head ribbon cable defect - either in the wires themselves with the flexing-extending or the contacts. It might be well to replace the cable to the head if a new head doesn't cure the fault before delving deeper. This can be a problem with the larger iPF series.

Pete
Yes, this is a good idea.  The trouble when you buy a used anything is that you don't know the history.  Perhaps if something happened to this printer before where you can suspect the cable, it would be helpful.  In my case, the 6400 does not have a separate cable between the carriage and main board.  It wouldn't have mattered since it was the main board that was fried, but I agree that for an 8300, based on what I read, the cable is a good thing to try, especially since the color channel outage is complete.
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Aaron F.

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Re: Bought a Used Canon iPF 8400 and running into problems!
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2018, 05:49:42 PM »

Happy New Year Luminous gang,

Thanks again for everyone's input and help! Hope everyone had a great New Years.

Since we've replaced the right print head, everything has been going extra smooth! I've printed multiple prints on different types of papers with no problems whatsoever.

Thankfully it was only a print head problem and we didn't have to do anything more. Definitely learned a lot after that Christmas disaster

Happy printing everyone!

 
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​Aaron Fruman
Frame Designer & Print Specialist

Winged Canvas | Markham's Art Hub
185 Bullock Dr. Unit 1, Markham, ON L3P 7R4
905-205-1231 | [email protected]
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