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Author Topic: Capture One CH  (Read 3417 times)

ben730

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Capture One CH
« on: December 20, 2017, 06:55:58 PM »

Hi
Can somebody tell me what the difference of C1 CH to C1 is?
What is the real advantage of it?
Thanks,
Ben

Henk Peter

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Re: Capture One CH
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2017, 12:40:35 PM »

$5700
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arobinson7547

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Re: Capture One CH
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2017, 08:18:16 AM »

for me it was Lab readings and a Linear Scientific curve. v11 now shows LAB measurements and there is a workaround for getting a truly linear curve
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bcf

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Re: Capture One CH
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2017, 06:00:18 PM »

"a workaround for getting a truly linear curve"...

Interesting - what is the workaround?
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qwz

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Re: Capture One CH
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2017, 03:31:59 AM »

What a workaround?
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DP

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Re: Capture One CH
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2017, 10:00:29 AM »

"a workaround for getting a truly linear curve"...

Interesting - what is the workaround?

curves in C1 are simply .fcrv files ... rename
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arobinson7547

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Re: Capture One CH
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2017, 10:38:15 AM »

Renaming an existing LS curve with the same pattern of your Cameras naming (as it exist inside of the file system)


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qwz

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Re: Capture One CH
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2017, 02:38:13 AM »

From P1 IQ150 it is no difference with Linear on my A7M2 files;-(
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Dinarius

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Re: Capture One CH
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2017, 05:04:39 AM »

1. The new Lab readings in 11 are just that; readings, right?

You can’t actually edit in Lab Mode; for example, Curves cannot be switched from RGB to L,a,b, as you could in Photoshop. Correct?

Which makes me wonder how useful the new feature is.

2. I edit in Linear almost exclusively. The comment about a true Linear curve workaround is interesting. But, I don’t understand it. Would appreciate a more detailed explanation. Thanks. (On a similar note; Hasselblad recently introduced what they call “Reproduction Mode Low Gain” into their Phocus software. This is an even flatter curve than their longstanding Reproduction Mode curve, which they have also retained.) Linear processing, and giving more control to the photographer, seems to be where it’s at these days. When you think about it, maximising the DR of your camera is a no-brainer.

Thanks.

D.

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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Capture One CH
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2017, 05:55:39 AM »

Hi,

If I want match two images or reproduce an image it is very useful to include a ColorChecker in the image or shoot it in equal light. You can download L*a*b* values for all patches, so having Lab display in the raw converter is pretty handy.

The 4-th grey field has L*a*b* value of approximately 51,0,0. The light skin tone patch is 66, 18, 18. With RGB values, it is always the question "Which RGB". Most colour spaces have equal data for RGB channels for grey. But an RGB number in Adobe RGB will differ a lot from an RGB number in sRGB.

Also, I didn't know but the white balance tools match the 'a*' and 'b*' channels. So, if you have the Lab value for a tone you can adjust WB to match it. So, having Lab is helpful, because it is well defined.

You can take a spot sample with a spectrometer and that will give you an Lab value, but it won't probably give an RGB triplet and would it do it, that RGB may not be in the colour space Capture One displays. Although, my guess may be that C1 may display Adobe RGB coordinates.

Best regards
Erik


1. The new Lab readings in 11 are just that; readings, right?

You can’t actually edit in Lab Mode; for example, Curves cannot be switched from RGB to L,a,b, as you could in Photoshop. Correct?

Which makes me wonder how useful the new feature is.

2. I edit in Linear almost exclusively. The comment about a true Linear curve workaround is interesting. But, I don’t understand it. Would appreciate a more detailed explanation. Thanks. (On a similar note; Hasselblad recently introduced what they call “Reproduction Mode Low Gain” into their Phocus software. This is an even flatter curve than their longstanding Reproduction Mode curve, which they have also retained.) Linear processing, and giving more control to the photographer, seems to be where it’s at these days. When you think about it, maximising the DR of your camera is a no-brainer.

Thanks.

D.
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DP

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Re: Capture One CH
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2017, 09:35:28 AM »

From P1 IQ150 it is no difference with Linear on my A7M2 files;-(

the only difference between linear and linear scientific is that linear scientific .fcrv file has a flag instructing C1 not to do anything (like nice rolloff) with clipped data ... otherwise the curve data in both .fcrv files are the same (0,0 -> 1, 1)
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DP

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Re: Capture One CH
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2017, 09:40:08 AM »

Would appreciate a more detailed explanation.

the topic about dcamprof + dcamprof manual, tutorial have explanation about C1 pipeline in terms of various curves applied by its code + see my note above about the difference between linear and linear scientific...
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DP

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Re: Capture One CH
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2017, 09:46:37 AM »

Which makes me wonder how useful the new feature is.

the best use of similar indication for normal work is in RPP raw converter - you select an area of your choice in frame (which you can make at will sufficiently small to make sense and at the same time big enough to average outliers out) and it shows you average Lab values across the area with ".x" precision ... such precision is not as rough as integers in ACR/LR and not such idiotic for normal work as in C1 with its  ".xx" eye & brain straining / who do they think needs 0.01 precision for a regular photo work ? / indication... I wish though it 'd be Lch (or similar) instead of Lab.
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E.J. Peiker

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Re: Capture One CH
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2017, 10:52:23 AM »

The first video in the third installment of the Charles Cramer videos (https://luminous-landscape.com/shooting-masters-charles-cramer-part-3/) shows how Lab color readout can be beneficial to have!
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Capture One CH
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2017, 09:59:11 AM »

Capture One CH (aka Capture One Cultural Heritage Edition) is primarily designed for use by institutions such as museums, libraries, archives and the companies that serve such institutions. Its creation was a partnership between Digital Transitions Division of Cultural Heritage and Phase One. In the US it is exclusively available through us, and in the rest of the world is distributed by Phase One's Cultural Heritage partners.

The vast majority of our partial client list is using the CH Edition. Individual users are certainly welcome to purchase it, but the value is unlocked primarily when scanning higher volumes of material which is less common for individual users. In higher-volume use cases a doubling of productivity is often achieved via the AutoCrop tool alone meaning the return on investment happens in the first few weeks after it is implemented.

It is built on top of the standard Pro version of Capture One and adds several features useful to that market:
- Native handling/inversion of negative film, for use with the DT Film Scanning Kit
- Bespoke ICC profiles for the DT Photon LED (98 CRI, 98 CQS) reproduction lighting system. Since every P1 back and every DT Photon is calibrated to a tight specification at the factory these profiles almost always outperform an in-situ user-generated profile when measured on a target other than the one used to build the profile (the only valid way to test color accuracy; otherwise you're teaching to the test)
- AutoCrop and AutoDeskew for handling the tedious task of post-process cropping when scanning large volumes of material
- AutoPPI integration with the DT AutoColumn for one-click changes of scanning PPI (by moving the camera up and down)
- CH Workspaces consistent with the terminology and suggested workflow of the DT Digitization Program Planning Guide
- DTDCH Cropping Script Suite including the following cropping tools:
--- Page Splitting
--- Set Specific Size (without changing crop location)
--- Standardize to Largest (without changing crop location)
- DTDCH Shutter Integration for seamless workflows with the Schneider Electronic Shutter and Rodenstock/Sinar eShutter
- Modify Crop tool for expanding, contracting, or shifting crops across multiple images

LAB color readouts was previously a feature exclusive to the CH Edition but was added to the Pro Edition when it became clear its utility was broader than the cultural heritage community.

We have several new CH features being worked on for future CH releases based on feedback from annual Round Tables we host, site visits, and other customer feedback. If you have feedback for such features you're very welcome to email me or [email protected].
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 10:05:08 AM by Doug Peterson »
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Capture One CH
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2017, 10:02:14 AM »

You can take a spot sample with a spectrometer and that will give you an Lab value, but it won't probably give an RGB triplet and would it do it, that RGB may not be in the colour space Capture One displays. Although, my guess may be that C1 may display Adobe RGB coordinates.

The RGB values (and image preview) are, by default, proofed into whatever your current output recipe is set for. However, you can select [View > Proof Profile] and select any RGB or CYMK space to proof into. Our Capture One Color Reproduction Guide has significantly more information.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 10:09:36 AM by Doug Peterson »
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Capture One CH
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2017, 10:07:21 AM »

the only difference between linear and linear scientific is that linear scientific .fcrv file has a flag instructing C1 not to do anything (like nice rolloff) with clipped data ... otherwise the curve data in both .fcrv files are the same (0,0 -> 1, 1)

This is not quite correct.

See 26:23 of our Process Control Webinar for the more complete story.

DP

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Re: Capture One CH
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2017, 02:03:36 PM »

This is not quite correct.

Doug,

apparently you did not understand yourself what I wrote... let me try again - techinically /skipping the BS/ there is a flag inside .fcrv file that instructs C1 code no to do roll off... the curve data inside is identical in both cases - the only difference is how C1 code works

Quote
C:\Program Files\Phase One\Capture One 11\Film Curves>fc /b "PhaseOneIQ160-Linear Response.fcrv" "PhaseOneIQ160-Linear Scientific.fcrv"
Comparing files PhaseOneIQ160-Linear Response.fcrv and PHASEONEIQ160-LINEAR SCIENTIFIC.FCRV
00000044: 01 05

as you can see  ;D

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Doug Peterson

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Re: Capture One CH
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2017, 03:16:59 PM »

Doug,

apparently you did not understand yourself what I wrote... let me try again - techinically /skipping the BS/ there is a flag inside .fcrv file that instructs C1 code no to do roll off... the curve data inside is identical in both cases - the only difference is how C1 code works

as you can see  ;D

Right, but the rolloff occurs *before* the single-channel-clipping point. My reading of what you wrote implied the difference is at the clipping point and beyond.

ErikKaffehr

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Re: Capture One CH
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2017, 08:13:48 PM »

I don't think there is a "beyond" beyond the clipping point...

The way I see it, the linear curve yields some highlight compression while the scientific linear does not.

Best regards
Erik

Right, but the rolloff occurs *before* the single-channel-clipping point. My reading of what you wrote implied the difference is at the clipping point and beyond.
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