P9000 black ink change - Normal or Quick?

[Stephen G]

I found an interesting menu option on my new P9000. Under Printer Setup there's an option to change the Black Ink Change from 'Normal' to 'Quick'.

I can find no documentation on / explanation for this anywhere. Anyone here know what the difference is?

I've set it to 'Quick' to see if there's any noticeable difference to the default 'Normal'. I've just switched from PK to MK and it didn't seem any faster and it still runs the cleaning cycle after the change. I'll start timing things from now on.

[Wayne Fox]

using quick seems to use the same amount of time ( and probably ink) switching from PK back to MK as it does from MK to PK.  I don't believe quick affects the switch from PK to MK.  In theory it seems it's purging the ink in the head about the same amount going both directions.  Perhaps it does use less going the other way, if you time it I'd be curious.

I tested it on my p5000 and I didn't notice any issues.  Logic tells me that if the work being printed right after the switch doesn't contain a lot of black areas then the head will finish purging as you print with the trace amounts of MK intermingled with so many other colors and areas of ink as to not be noticeable.

But i decided why chance it, so I decided to just stay with the normal mode unless what I'm printing after the switch back to PK isn't critical.

[arobinson7547]

My 'guess' would be that they are switching the ink but NOT flushing the line; It's gonna flush onto your next print(s).


Sort of what Wayne said; but different.

[Daverich]

My 'guess' would be that they are switching the ink but NOT flushing the line; It's gonna flush onto your next print(s).


Sort of what Wayne said; but different.

That might be true if you’re going from PK to MK but I doubt that it’s true going the other way. If you print on a paper designed for Photo Black using Matte Black ink you can rub it off with your finger.

[Garnick]

I found an interesting menu option on my new P9000. Under Printer Setup there's an option to change the Black Ink Change from 'Normal' to 'Quick'.

I can find no documentation on / explanation for this anywhere. Anyone here know what the difference is?

I've set it to 'Quick' to see if there's any noticeable difference to the default 'Normal'. I've just switched from PK to MK and it didn't seem any faster and it still runs the cleaning cycle after the change. I'll start timing things from now on.

Hi Stephen,

I cannot reply to your initial question, since I have never tried the "Quick" setting on the P7000.  However, one part of your post that I can refer to is the "cleaning cycle after the change".  I found a workaround for that some time ago, and it's really quite simple.  I do "K" ink swaps quite frequently and was getting tired of the cleaning cycles following the "swap", in many cases possibly unnecessary.  My "fix" is as follows, but make sure you adhere to it exactly!  After the ink swap, and here it comes - Shut Down The Printer!  Yup, that's it.  Leave the printer powered down for perhaps a couple of minutes, although I doubt that amount of time is actually necessary.  Power up again and the printer will run the AID as always, and a cleaning cycle IF NECESSARY.  Since I made this earth shattering discovery I have used it every time I do a "K" ink swap, and it has never failed me.  After turning the printer back on I run a nozzle check and if the AID has actually missed a gap, which it does occasionally, I run a "pairs" cleaning cycle as usual, NOT an "All Channel" cleaning as it would normally.  Give it a try, you might like it.

Gary         

[arobinson7547]

That might be true if you’re going from PK to MK but I doubt that it’s true going the other way. If you print on a paper designed for Photo Black using Matte Black ink you can rub it off with your finger.

Agreed. But my 'guess' is what Epson did and was thinking; not necessarily in the best interest of the user. They know people like to hear works like 'quick' (which to me reads as shortcut by sacrificing something you need)

Just like [LOSSY jepg compression] advertised as nice and small but no mention of killing all that hard work with the artifacts

[Wayne Fox]

My 'guess' would be that they are switching the ink but NOT flushing the line; It's gonna flush onto your next print(s).

They don't flush the line, it all happens in the head.  If they were just switching the ink it would be instant.  Just flip the internal switch.  There is definitely ink being purged.  I think it's 5ml from MK to PK and 3ml from PK to MK.  I think quick uses the same amount of ink going both directions, meaning there might be a little MK ink that doesn't get purged.  It won't affect print quality if the trace PK is left when switching to MK, but might going the other way.

Agreed. But my 'guess' is what Epson did and was thinking; not necessarily in the best interest of the user. They know people like to hear works like 'quick' (which to me reads as shortcut by sacrificing something you need)

Just like [LOSSY jepg compression] advertised as nice and small but no mention of killing all that hard work with the artifacts

Epson just can't win.  everyone complains at how much ink the printers waste, so they offer this and it's suddenly sacrificing quality and a planned conspiracy, even though the default is normal and the choice to try quick is a conscious one.  To me it sounds like they are admitting that they have been overly aggressive and are sensitive to some users complaints about using too much ink, so they supplied an alternative.

The vast majority of these printers are used in production houses where using quick helps and the results are perfectly acceptable. LuLa members and similar users are a very small part of the market for these printers, and I believe the production houses were probably asking for this.  Even though MK can rub off, I think the possible issues is slight areas of small gloss differential in large areas of very dark parts of the image.  there isn't enough MK left to rub off, it would be extremely diluted.

personally I wouldn't be surprised if there were no detectable differences at all, there is so little MK left after the purge.  But I think those that want the best with no risk should just leave it at the default, unless they know the first print or two after the switch are non critical, such as test prints etc.

[Stephen G]

Hi Stephen,

I cannot reply to your initial question, since I have never tried the "Quick" setting on the P7000.  However, one part of your post that I can refer to is the "cleaning cycle after the change".  I found a workaround for that some time ago, and it's really quite simple.  I do "K" ink swaps quite frequently and was getting tired of the cleaning cycles following the "swap", in many cases possibly unnecessary.  My "fix" is as follows, but make sure you adhere to it exactly!  After the ink swap, and here it comes - Shut Down The Printer!  Yup, that's it.  Leave the printer powered down for perhaps a couple of minutes, although I doubt that amount of time is actually necessary.  Power up again and the printer will run the AID as always, and a cleaning cycle IF NECESSARY.  Since I made this earth shattering discovery I have used it every time I do a "K" ink swap, and it has never failed me.  After turning the printer back on I run a nozzle check and if the AID has actually missed a gap, which it does occasionally, I run a "pairs" cleaning cycle as usual, NOT an "All Channel" cleaning as it would normally.  Give it a try, you might like it.

Gary       

Yeah, I know about the shut down trick, but it's a bit too much hassle. There's another trick I used to use on my 9900: pop in a nearly empty cartridge before running the black ink swap. Any ink, except MK or PK of course. Then when it tries to run the cleaning cycle after the swap it gives you the opportunity to cancel the cycle, because it doesn't have enough ink in one of the carts! You can then run a single channel cleaning on the K/LK line. On the 9900 this was almost always necessary, even if a nozzle check showed up perfect for PK/MK. With first print the K channel would drop out almost immediately if I had not run this clean cycle. Maybe I just had temperamental 9900.

I haven't actually tried this trick on my new P9000. Lots of full ink carts and lots of work to do, so I'm just letting it do its thing and not micro-managing it.

No ink swaps since I wrote the first post, so no timing info yet.

[Garnick]

Yeah, I know about the shut down trick, but it's a bit too much hassle. There's another trick I used to use on my 9900: pop in a nearly empty cartridge before running the black ink swap. Any ink, except MK or PK of course. Then when it tries to run the cleaning cycle after the swap it gives you the opportunity to cancel the cycle, because it doesn't have enough ink in one of the carts! You can then run a single channel cleaning on the K/LK line. On the 9900 this was almost always necessary, even if a nozzle check showed up perfect for PK/MK. With first print the K channel would drop out almost immediately if I had not run this clean cycle. Maybe I just had temperamental 9900.

I haven't actually tried this trick on my new P9000. Lots of full ink carts and lots of work to do, so I'm just letting it do its thing and not micro-managing it.

No ink swaps since I wrote the first post, so no timing info yet.

Now there's one I hadn't thought of, the nearly-empty cart trick.  I can see no reason that wouldn't work on the P7000/9000 as well.  However, the shut down scenario works well, albeit perhaps somewhat of a hassle for some folks.  On the 9900 I always did the "K" ink swap in Service Mode, along with the accompanying nozzle checks and C1 cleaning cycles if necessary.  It's unfortunate that we don't have that alternative in Service Mode on the SC-P series printers.

Gary     

[Wayne Fox]

However, one part of your post that I can refer to is the "cleaning cycle after the change".

My p9000 hasn't done an clean after an ink swap for the last 4 or 5 swaps, and my p5000 only seems to clean if I haven't made a swap for several weeks.

 Maybe just luck, but seems better than the 9900.

[loomitz]

My p9000 hasn't done an clean after an ink swap for the last 4 or 5 swaps, and my p5000 only seems to clean if I haven't made a swap for several weeks.

 Maybe just luck, but seems better than the 9900.

i allways need to clean when i go from matte to photo black. maybe is because humidity is lower here arround 25-35%

[Garnick]

i allways need to clean when i go from matte to photo black. maybe is because humidity is lower here arround 25-35%

I have frequently found that to be the case as well, although not as much in the other direction.  However, you do not have to do a FULL cleaning cycle(all channels).  I discovered a few months ago that if I shut down the printer for a couple of minutes following a "K" ink switch, when I start up again and run a Nozzle Check the printer will not execute an auto cleaning cycle(all channels).  Run the Nozzle Check and clean only the necessary pair instead.  And in this thread there also another procedure explained by the OP, Stephen G.

Gary

[Garnick]

My p9000 hasn't done an clean after an ink swap for the last 4 or 5 swaps, and my p5000 only seems to clean if I haven't made a swap for several weeks.

 Maybe just luck, but seems better than the 9900.

Hi Wayne,

I imagine the Auto cleaning cycle following a "K" swap is governed in the same way as the start up Auto cleaning cycles.  Of course on start up the AID kicks in, but not always a cleaning cycle.  I had been using the P7000 daily since I bought it in July and had never seen a start up cleaning cycle until a couple of weeks ago, and then on consecutive days.  However, as the manual states, even with all Auto settings turned OFF, the printer will occasionally run an Auto cleaning cycle upon start up.  If my assumption is correct that would seem to give some credence to the possibility that the printer will indeed run a cleaning cycle after a "K" swap occasionally, whether or not it is necessary.  And of course it would also seem that any sort of Auto cleaning affects all channels, not just the one in question.

Gary   

[Wayne Fox]

could be Gary, but since I've done 5 or 6 swaps without a clean being triggered, seems to me the need for a clean would be from a fault being reported by the AID.

I also rarely have my printer clean when I turn it on, and there isn't a pattern. A few times it's cleaned two days in a row, it's gone several weeks without a clean when turning it on.  The inconsistency seems would indicate most cleans are from a fault detected, not a required set timer.

I have my Timer Clean settings set to off, so it seems the only time I would get an clean is when AID calls for one.  With auto cleaning turned off, the only time that comes into play is when the printer is powered up or awakes from a sleep of some length of time, or when an ink swap occurs.

That's what I"m seeing anyway.

[Garnick]

could be Gary, but since I've done 5 or 6 swaps without a clean being triggered, seems to me the need for a clean would be from a fault being reported by the AID.

I also rarely have my printer clean when I turn it on, and there isn't a pattern. A few times it's cleaned two days in a row, it's gone several weeks without a clean when turning it on.  The inconsistency seems would indicate most cleans are from a fault detected, not a required set timer.

I have my Timer Clean settings set to off, so it seems the only time I would get an clean is when AID calls for one.  With auto cleaning turned off, the only time that comes into play is when the printer is powered up or awakes from a sleep of some length of time, or when an ink swap occurs.

That's what I"m seeing anyway.

Yes, I have all Auto functions turned off as well.  I've always wanted to have control over what's happening with my printers, cleaning cycles and otherwise.  Now here's a situation that gave me all the more reason not to trust the AID and it's ability to detect nozzle issues.  And of course this could work both ways.  A couple of days ago when I powered up the P7000 it ran the obligatory AID procedure and NO cleaning cycle to follow.  Had it not been ingrained in me to run a nozzle check, regardless of the AIDs opinion, I would likely have started a print job.  However, I, of little faith, did run a nozzle check, and discovered to my horror that there was a two line gap in the LK channel.  Again I will repeat - Power Up > AID procedure as always > NO Cleaning Cycle = a two line gap in the LK channel.  Conclusion;  If the AID could not detect that many missing nozzles, is it not at least plausible that it could initiate a cleaning cycle for no reason at all?  Yes, I know, there's no such thing as a perfect system.  That's why I always, without exception, make sure the print job after start up is a Nozzle Check.  OK, call me obsessive.  But first, call me for breakfast   

Food for thought on this -18ºC morning here in the Great White North.         

[Stephen G]

Some timing info:

Quick:
MK to PK = 1m55s
PK to MK = 1m22s

Normal:
Mk to PK = 3m00s
PK to MK = 2m05s

This is just one measurement for each possible ink switch but it looks like Quick is quicker! What is it leaving out? What are the consequences of using quick? Why isn't this setting documented anywhere? I am curious to know a bit more about this option, but I don't know if I care enough to dig any deeper. Maybe someone here knows a tech who can shed some light. The tech who installed my P9000 had no clue what the difference was.

I'll keep timing my ink changes to see if they are consistent.

[Stephen G]

Interesting:

I just switched from PK to MK (normal) and the P9000 ran a cleaning cycle FIRST, before starting the switch. I've never seen that before.
It was quite clear about it: "cleaning in progress" displayed on the panel before "switching black ink"

Auto Nozzle Check is set to off. There were no jobs in the print queue.