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Author Topic: New Article/Review - Just Published A Hands On Review Of The Leica CL  (Read 3879 times)

JeanMichel

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Re: New Article/Review - Just Published A Hands On Review Of The Leica CL
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2017, 07:13:35 PM »

Interesting review by Kevin, much of what he writes is supported by other people who also actually have used the camera. Granted, their views may be tinted favourably towards the camera lender, but still, they actually used the camera. Some off these include:
Jonathan Slack http://www.slack.co.uk/leica-cl.html
Andy Westlake http://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/leica-cl-2
Sarah M Lee http://blog.leica-camera.com/2017/11/21/tender-are-the-nighthawks/
Nick Rains: https://leica-akademie.com.au/leica-cl-first-impressions-new-family-member/

I use an M9 and an MP, and have no plans to purchase the CL, but I would not mind trying it, especially with the 23 mm Summicron (35 mm equivalent since that is my most used focal length).
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 08:50:58 PM by JeanMichel »
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Geoff_H

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Re: New Article/Review - Just Published A Hands On Review Of The Leica CL
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2017, 04:20:11 AM »

I have no doubt about the capability of this camera, however all I can say about it is there is nothing about it that would entice me into buying into the Leica system, while the TL has superb clean lines the CL joins an ever increasing number of cameras I consider as ugly, that lump on the top left looking from behind reminds me of any number of cheap Chinese cameras, not of a superbly crafted Leica.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: New Article/Review - Just Published A Hands On Review Of The Leica CL
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2017, 08:00:47 AM »

I have no doubt about the capability of this camera, however all I can say about it is there is nothing about it that would entice me into buying into the Leica system, while the TL has superb clean lines the CL joins an ever increasing number of cameras I consider as ugly, that lump on the top left looking from behind reminds me of any number of cheap Chinese cameras, not of a superbly crafted Leica.

Interesting observation. It raises a rather fundamental question about why one buys a particular make of camera - so many to choose from. Why should appearance be important enough to determine a purchase decision? Why would I spend X thousand on an APS-C Leica when I can buy a more fully-featured Japanese-X camera/lens combination for about one-third the price? There needs to be good reasons or I'm not doing it. To my mind the key determinants of a purchase are the presence of key usability features I heavily rely upon, and of course the quality of the results. I'm not even sure how important performance longevity is given that these cameras all become technically obsolete and we trade them long before they are likely to wear out. So, speaking for myself, I rely on zoom lenses and image stabilization a lot. Leica is comparatively weak on both these criteria, so I'm not tempted to buy it. But I have to say, the results Kevin published the other day are, so far as I've seen, second to none. So if Leica were to provide the features I really want to have, it may be a different tug on my wallet. Do I care where the viewfinder is placed and how it looks? Not in the least, for me kind of trivial compared to these other considerations, because a camera isn't a piece of jewelry, it's for making photographs; but each to his/her own.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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KLaban

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Re: New Article/Review - Just Published A Hands On Review Of The Leica CL
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2017, 08:11:31 AM »

I went Leica M for the rangefinder, full frame, utter simplicity, compact and lightweight form that's combined with optical excellence. Obviously the rangefinder and full frame don't apply to the CL but I would imagine the rest do.
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KLaban

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Re: New Article/Review - Just Published A Hands On Review Of The Leica CL
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2017, 10:45:00 AM »

Leica owners need to start saving.

;-)
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bdbender4

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Re: New Article/Review - Just Published A Hands On Review Of The Leica CL
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2017, 12:07:16 PM »

... Do I care where the viewfinder is placed and how it looks? Not in the least, for me kind of trivial compared to these other considerations, because a camera isn't a piece of jewelry, it's for making photographs; but each to his/her own.
I do care where the viewfinder is placed, having recently become left-eyed (due to surgery).  The issue is nose-pokes if you want to use the touchscreen while shooting.  I have gone to a Canon EOS M-5, because Canon lets you choose which of the 4 quarters of the touchscreen are active. That in turn lets you use a finger to choose the focus point, should you so wish, instead of your nose doing it for you.  (This despite the significant lack of EOS-M lenses. I was using Fuji and still have quite a few Fuji lenses, but back to the topic at hand.)

I don't see where/how Leica has addressed this issue with the CL.

I am also concerned about having no ports. My experience with Fuji and Canon wifi offloads is that it works ok for a few images, but is not practical for offloading a day's shooting, just too slow.  So, with the CL, is it back to sneakernet, taking out the SD card and reading it directly into the computer? The early reviews I have read so far just sort of skim over this issue.
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traderjay

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Re: New Article/Review - Just Published A Hands On Review Of The Leica CL
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2017, 12:56:10 PM »

Interesting observation. It raises a rather fundamental question about why one buys a particular make of camera - so many to choose from. Why should appearance be important enough to determine a purchase decision? Why would I spend X thousand on an APS-C Leica when I can buy a more fully-featured Japanese-X camera/lens combination for about one-third the price? There needs to be good reasons or I'm not doing it. To my mind the key determinants of a purchase are the presence of key usability features I heavily rely upon, and of course the quality of the results. I'm not even sure how important performance longevity is given that these cameras all become technically obsolete and we trade them long before they are likely to wear out. So, speaking for myself, I rely on zoom lenses and image stabilization a lot. Leica is comparatively weak on both these criteria, so I'm not tempted to buy it. But I have to say, the results Kevin published the other day are, so far as I've seen, second to none. So if Leica were to provide the features I really want to have, it may be a different tug on my wallet. Do I care where the viewfinder is placed and how it looks? Not in the least, for me kind of trivial compared to these other considerations, because a camera isn't a piece of jewelry, it's for making photographs; but each to his/her own.

Bingo - all those useless mechanical engineering excellence for nothing when its just a throwaway camera in 1 or two years. Hey the red Leica tag must be worth something!
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Mark D Segal

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Re: New Article/Review - Just Published A Hands On Review Of The Leica CL
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2017, 12:57:49 PM »

I do care where the viewfinder is placed, having recently become left-eyed (due to surgery).  The issue is nose-pokes if you want to use the touchscreen while shooting.  I have gone to a Canon EOS M-5, because Canon lets you choose which of the 4 quarters of the touchscreen are active. That in turn lets you use a finger to choose the focus point, should you so wish, instead of your nose doing it for you.  (This despite the significant lack of EOS-M lenses. I was using Fuji and still have quite a few Fuji lenses, but back to the topic at hand.)

I don't see where/how Leica has addressed this issue with the CL.

I am also concerned about having no ports. My experience with Fuji and Canon wifi offloads is that it works ok for a few images, but is not practical for offloading a day's shooting, just too slow.  So, with the CL, is it back to sneakernet, taking out the SD card and reading it directly into the computer? The early reviews I have read so far just sort of skim over this issue.

Both good points. All the Sony mirrorless models I'm aware of place the viewfinder upper left as well. Hasn't been an issue for me because the a6300 I'm using doesn't provide for focusing by screen touch. Raises a question for any models having this feature whether it can be disabled to avoid the focusing accidents.

I can download photos directly from the camera, but it's so slow I prefer simply removing the card and inserting it into the SD port of the laptop. Incomparably faster.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Rob C

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Re: New Article/Review - Just Published A Hands On Review Of The Leica CL
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2017, 01:25:21 PM »

https://eoloperfido.com/clownville-photography/

A Roman who uses several Leicas to good effect; sone pretty attractive models, too, just to balance the street stuff, I suppose.

Rob C

traderjay

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Re: New Article/Review - Just Published A Hands On Review Of The Leica CL
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2017, 01:44:32 PM »

https://eoloperfido.com/clownville-photography/

A Roman who uses several Leicas to good effect; sone pretty attractive models, too, just to balance the street stuff, I suppose.

Rob C

Thats some halloween/SAW movie creepy shots right there. I have great respect for Leica optics but zero for their digital efforts. Maybe some value in the M-series but digital is just a joke.
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KLaban

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Re: New Article/Review - Just Published A Hands On Review Of The Leica CL
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2017, 02:01:51 PM »

Thats some halloween/SAW movie creepy shots right there. I have great respect for Leica optics but zero for their digital efforts. Maybe some value in the M-series but digital is just a joke.

That's some signature you've got there. I take it you are a photographer?

Love to hear about your hands-on experience with Leica digital.
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Telecaster

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Re: New Article/Review - Just Published A Hands On Review Of The Leica CL
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2017, 03:35:12 PM »

Leica owners need to start saving.

;-)

Yeah, not only for the lens but for a new M camera with a long enough effective RF baselength to accurately focus it at close range.

-Dave-
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traderjay

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Re: New Article/Review - Just Published A Hands On Review Of The Leica CL
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2017, 04:06:08 PM »

That's some signature you've got there. I take it you are a photographer?

Love to hear about your hands-on experience with Leica digital.

I am hobbyist photographer/videographer with passion in high performance computing to supplement my trading/robotics/machine vision work.

Sergei Lavrov once said: If it acts like a terrorist, if it walks like a terrorist, if it fights like a terrorist, it's a terrorist, right?

In this case, the CL is a APS-C camera so expect it to act that way. Good lenses won't help either.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: New Article/Review - Just Published A Hands On Review Of The Leica CL
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2017, 04:29:00 PM »

I am hobbyist photographer/videographer with passion in high performance computing to supplement my trading/robotics/machine vision work.

Sergei Lavrov once said: If it acts like a terrorist, if it walks like a terrorist, if it fights like a terrorist, it's a terrorist, right?

In this case, the CL is a APS-C camera so expect it to act that way. Good lenses won't help either.

I don't know what you mean by "expect it to act that way" - it so happens that with contemporary sensor design and components, the performance of APS-C sensors (the good ones) is excellent. The resolution and noise characteristics of these sensors allow the manufacturers to pack-in a very large number of photo-sites while maintaining excellent image quality. A 24 MP APC-S sensor, without cropping the photos, easily allows a fine 17x22 inch print without resampling and without compromise. The sensor is so good that effectively image quality is lens limited rather than sensor limited, but again, with today's fine optics, good lenses will perform superbly. I suggest you go back to Kevin's article and magnify the photos made with this camera. You will see a quality of corner to corner resolution and cleanliness even at high ISO that makes this camera stand-out. It's a Leica and it's expensive for a reason. Yes, it would be great if it had some additional features and some good zoom lenses, but don't knock the quality - unbeatable to date.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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traderjay

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Re: New Article/Review - Just Published A Hands On Review Of The Leica CL
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2017, 04:42:26 PM »

I don't know what you mean by "expect it to act that way" - it so happens that with contemporary sensor design and components, the performance of APS-C sensors (the good ones) is excellent. The resolution and noise characteristics of these sensors allow the manufacturers to pack-in a very large number of photo-sites while maintaining excellent image quality. A 24 MP APC-S sensor, without cropping the photos, easily allows a fine 17x22 inch print without resampling and without compromise. The sensor is so good that effectively image quality is lens limited rather than sensor limited, but again, with today's fine optics, good lenses will perform superbly. I suggest you go back to Kevin's article and magnify the photos made with this camera. You will see a quality of corner to corner resolution and cleanliness even at high ISO that makes this camera stand-out. It's a Leica and it's expensive for a reason. Yes, it would be great if it had some additional features and some good zoom lenses, but don't knock the quality - unbeatable to date.

How about at ISO 6000?
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Mark D Segal

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Re: New Article/Review - Just Published A Hands On Review Of The Leica CL
« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2017, 05:06:03 PM »

How about at ISO 6000?

Scroll down toward the bottom of Kevin's review and look at the photos going up to ISO 50,000 (fifty thousand) yourself: https://luminous-landscape.com/leica-cl-hands-review/. You can make up your own mind; I don't really need to tell you.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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KLaban

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Re: New Article/Review - Just Published A Hands On Review Of The Leica CL
« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2017, 05:09:29 PM »

I am hobbyist photographer/videographer with passion in high performance computing to supplement my trading/robotics/machine vision work.

Sergei Lavrov once said: If it acts like a terrorist, if it walks like a terrorist, if it fights like a terrorist, it's a terrorist, right?

In this case, the CL is a APS-C camera so expect it to act that way. Good lenses won't help either.

Am I to understand you have no experience with Leica digital?
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KLaban

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Re: New Article/Review - Just Published A Hands On Review Of The Leica CL
« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2017, 05:13:58 PM »

Yeah, not only for the lens but for a new M camera with a long enough effective RF baselength to accurately focus it at close range.

-Dave-

I'd love to use this lens, sadly it and the 50mm Noctilux are completely beyond my means. But when I win the jackpot I'll buy an SL to go with them.

;-)
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traderjay

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Re: New Article/Review - Just Published A Hands On Review Of The Leica CL
« Reply #38 on: November 29, 2017, 05:18:18 PM »

Am I to understand you have no experience with Leica digital?

Not in depth. But that doesn't mean one cannot judge a camera based on technical specifications.
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KLaban

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Re: New Article/Review - Just Published A Hands On Review Of The Leica CL
« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2017, 05:24:34 PM »

Not in depth. But that doesn't mean one cannot judge a camera based on technical specifications.

What depth have you?
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 05:15:04 AM by KLaban »
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